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Let's Look at Recent Turns of Events, Studio/WP's Response and Discuss


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#1 DrowsyCate

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 08:10 AM

Surely most of us are aware of the recent fourth job implementation and the numerous amount of issues that came with it.

 

The response from Studio/WP is nothing to write home about and it is in fact some of the poor management of the issue that got me really angry. I thought about it a lot and came to the conclusion that I don't think anyone in Studio/WP even understand what has happened so let's go over this.

 

 

The Root of the Problem

 

The root of the problem is obviously the fourth job implementation but there's a multitude of issue before this was even a decision to be done.

 

Online game revenues for the second quarter of 2023 were KRW 17,025 million (US$ 12,919 thousand), representing a 25.0% decrease QoQ from KRW 22,696 million and a 31.4% decrease YoY from KRW 24,827 million.

 

The decrease QoQ was mainly attributable to decreased revenues from Ragnarok Online in Taiwan, Thailand and Japan.

 

Such decrease was partially offset by increased revenue from Ragnarok Online in United States.

 

The decrease YoY was largely due to decreased revenues from Ragnarok Online in Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines, Singapore and Malaysia.

 

Based on a recent report it is not hard to deduce that Studio is trying to capitalize on the increased revenue from iRO.

 

The implementation was potentially rushed but more importantly many of iRO custom features were simply overwritten. (Seriously does no one know how to version control?)

 

The features overwritten are as follows and not limited to:

  1. 3rd job quest requiring Magic Stone and several job change quest is broken
  2. VIP is no longer nullifying zeny cost for Rebirth
  3. 15 default available Character Slots are now reduced to 9 Character Slots
  4. Refine Certificate System was changed and no longer accepting Certificates from Cash item

All the above leads me to think that there is very little if not zero coordination between Studio and WP.

 

 

The Many More Problems That Came After

 

We all know the server's been acting like garbage and hardly shows any sign of life after the updates.

 

 

First Issue: The Great Offline Vending

All the server issue did in the end result in the Great Offline Vending Issue.

 

tldr; items/zeny in offline vender were not returned to players and many have to be retrieved via Code Redeemer, end of story right? Hardly.

 

Many of the players, myself included were able to retrieve our item at a later date via RODEX after the vending system finally timed out, and on top of that we were able to retrieve another copy of the items via Code Redeemer. This was limited to items that was not refined, carded or enchanted.

image.png

 

So yes, the management effectively legally duplicated our items. This in particular benefited the richest of the rich that would leave their items on 20+ of their offline vends.

 

On top of all this, many still did not get their zeny returned.

 

 

Second Issue: +10 -> +11 Refine Change

 

Now I understand why this need to be changed but the way this was done was just horrid.

 

Right away there was no communication because obviously there's no coordination between Studio and WP.

 

Then let me explain, this "band-aid" fix was put in before I even started playing iRO, the said fix has influenced or "corrupted" the entire market for so long that we have an incomparable surplus of highly refined gears compared to other servers.

 

+20 Gears existed in iRO solely thanks to this. Taking this away basically meant that whoever that holds these +15~+20 gears will have their worth grow exponentially because no one will be able to achieve these refine levels under any normal circumstances anymore.

 

Studio/WP's responses to this is well,

I do find it hard to believe as well but again, you will adapted to it since it's not a "feature"

Hardly aware of the effect this change meant.

 

There needs to be something put in place in the very least for this transition.

 

 

Third Issue: Why This Version of Fourth Job

 

I can only refer to twRO as that's the only other server that has received fourth job outside of kRO (jRO doesn't count, they customize everything)

 

To start off, the first version of fourth job has only received negative feedback in kRO, studio understood that and implemented the rebalanced version in twRO.

 

The first version of the fourth job is basically just "3rd job+" with more bonus stats and buffs. The rebalance fixed some of the issue and most of the skills has at least became borderline usable.

 

I simply cannot understand why. Did someone in Studio try to rush this whole update trying to capitalize on "the slight increase of revenue" from iRO?

 

Either way Studio thought this was a good idea and Trouveres still have to climb Thanatos Tower twice because Studio said so, which leads to my next issue.

 

Fourth Issue: Skipped Content?

 

I'm aware that Studio/WP said "we'll catch up to these skipped content" but exactly how long do we have to wait?

 

To start off, Merchant/Blacksmith skills were forgotten for the longest time and I generally think this was only fixed because Studio does not know how to version control.

 

Now besides the commonly mentioned content such as Illusion Dungeons, Glast Heim Challenge Mode or EDDA Biolab, there are some things that's been missing for a long time.

 

The Green Aura Update was not fully implemented.

The Green Aura Update was supposed to introduce several new MVP etc drops and most importantly the Mysterious Combination Bundle, this never got brought up and holds a lot of value to gameplay
 

Secondly our Eden Para Market is a ThRO copy, which is missing a lot of items from the kRO version.

 

 

Fifth Issue: Compensation?

It's probably nothing exciting but you said it so I'm holding you up to your words

 

image.png?ex=653fe283&is=652d6d83&hm=35f

 

 

Conclusion and My Concerns

 

I think it's easy to deduce that I'm rather angry about the way Studio/WP is handling the situation and namely this is about the general economy.

 

The turn of events lead me to think that Studio/WP is fine letting the rich get richer and are completely fine letting it stay that way.


Edited by DrowsyCate, 16 October 2023 - 09:34 AM.

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#2 6773131031232342973

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 09:44 AM

Theres also a massive RMT problem going on that no one wants to talk about it (because they are involved of course) and it's funny because WP wants more revenue when others are stealing slides from it's cake.


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#3 Hikari

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 07:35 PM

 

Second Issue: +10 -> +11 Refine Change

 

Now I understand why this need to be changed but the way this was done was just horrid.

 

Right away there was no communication because obviously there's no coordination between Studio and WP.

 

Then let me explain, this "band-aid" fix was put in before I even started playing iRO, the said fix has influenced or "corrupted" the entire market for so long that we have an incomparable surplus of highly refined gears compared to other servers.

 

+20 Gears existed in iRO solely thanks to this. Taking this away basically meant that whoever that holds these +15~+20 gears will have their worth grow exponentially because no one will be able to achieve these refine levels under any normal circumstances anymore.

 

Studio/WP's responses to this is well,

Hardly aware of the effect this change meant.

 

There needs to be something put in place in the very least for this transition.

 

This a hundred freaking times, now it costs around 35 (250m) BSBs to go from +10 -> +11 and we all have had some deep RNG pain at some point. If you bought a modern OCP and got BSBs every time, that would be around $20 dollars FOR ONE REFINE LEVEL during a HIGH RATE EVENT. We had +10 as a permanent plateau for YEARS and then they took it away randomly around the 185 update, to which Camp did applied the band-aid. Now they have decided to RIP the band-aid off with the most force possible right when there is a massive deluge of new weapons that require +11 for their main effects. Can't even use Advanced Refining Certificates right now as you mentioned before so this is THE ONLY option.

 

Also another note to dungeons, having to do the Trouvere quest without new TT is just absolutely awful:

-Bring a party of 5 to sit at the door to be let in.

-Do the whole key quest chain to get to level 11.

-Talk to the npc, requests 10 kills of 180+ angels, which should have been the updated tower monsters, but instead, bwing (and Pront was down when I did mine)

-Get your kills at Odin 4 instead

-Sell all your stones because you don't have keys anymore

-Do the key quest chain AGAIN

-Finally get to the NPC

And this is only what was supposed to be a side part of the quest.


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#4 ChakriGuard

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 07:58 PM

Please disable Rodex to stop duping every time server D/C lol


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#5 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 08:01 PM

Hmm, kro and jro made less money than usual, iro made more money than usual. Better make iro more like kro and jro.
Wp logic


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#6 vividort

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 08:11 PM

Please disable Rodex to stop duping every time server D/C lol

From what i understand from Cate's post they are completely clueless about it, prob dont even understand how it works and i dont blame then, the mess that has piled up along the years has lead to this, at this point the server is hold together with tasteless gum, about to fall apart.


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#7 Essmikayl

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 08:11 PM

wow cate giga-mad, but yes please speed up the compensation!


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#8 ChakriGuard

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 08:18 PM

From what i understand from Cate's post they are completely clueless about it, prob dont even understand how it works and i dont blame then, the mess that has piled up along the years has lead to this, at this point the server is hold together with tasteless gum, about to fall apart.

 

Actually nevermind, dupers still can do direct deals/trades lol

 

And yeah iRO has so many problems currently. The more you think about it, the more uneasy you feel tbh. Just chill and relax. The only concern i have with iRO is how dupers still dupe items ie BSBs, Convex mirrors, and such. Otherwise, I honestly dont really have problems with any of points Cate's brought up. Just wanna level to lvl 250 asap and WoE to enjoy the game.


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#9 DrowsyCate

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 05:06 AM

Also another note to dungeons, having to do the Trouvere quest without new TT is just absolutely awful:

-Bring a party of 5 to sit at the door to be let in.

-Do the whole key quest chain to get to level 11.

-Talk to the npc, requests 10 kills of 180+ angels, which should have been the updated tower monsters, but instead, bwing (and Pront was down when I did mine)

-Get your kills at Odin 4 instead

-Sell all your stones because you don't have keys anymore

-Do the key quest chain AGAIN

-Finally get to the NPC

And this is only what was supposed to be a side part of the quest.

 

My wanderer is just a buff slave and there's no way for her to climb it and so I found out the hard way that you cannot climb the tower as a fourth job (I tried to escort it with my biolo)
 

image.png?ex=653c3037&is=6529bb37&hm=e4b


Edited by DrowsyCate, 17 October 2023 - 05:09 AM.

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#10 DrowsyCate

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 05:14 AM

From what i understand from Cate's post they are completely clueless about it, prob dont even understand how it works and i dont blame then, the mess that has piled up along the years has lead to this, at this point the server is hold together with tasteless gum, about to fall apart.

 

That's what I was thinking, I can't be yelling at the CM when they are completely oblivious about the situation. I don't even think they are aware that they duped items for us.

 

Post serves to raise awareness and explain the situation and maybe let out my anger


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#11 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 05:19 AM

They can't understand our questions both because they know nothing of the game and they don't even speak the same language. Every time I send a ticket I have to end up explaining how the freaking game works to the GM who is supposed to be support on game issues.


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#12 ZHONGKAIH

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 06:22 AM

The Studio&WP team now is greedy and brainless. They even don't know why IRO increase profits in second quarter. Bringing in garbage refining system,  garbage rodex system, garbage server with frequent death, lots of missing content, more and more cash-in events, bugs all over the floor, bots everywhere, lower ticket processing efficiency, and last, more rampant dupers.

 

Now their service worth us noting to spend on.


Edited by ZHONGKAIH, 17 October 2023 - 06:38 AM.

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#13 Wachamacallit

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 07:22 AM

Actually nevermind, dupers still can do direct deals/trades lol

 

And yeah iRO has so many problems currently. The more you think about it, the more uneasy you feel tbh. Just chill and relax. The only concern i have with iRO is how dupers still dupe items ie BSBs, Convex mirrors, and such. Otherwise, I honestly dont really have problems with any of points Cate's brought up. Just wanna level to lvl 250 asap and WoE to enjoy the game.

Come on, bruv. Cate is basically saying that MVP cards and whatnot are not selling out in other regions. That can't be right, can it? Who the hell does not want MVP cards?  :heh:

 

The Studio&WP team now is greedy and brainless. They even don't know why IRO increase profits in second quarter. Bringing in garbage refining system,  garbage rodex system, garbage server with frequent death, lots of missing content, more and more cash-in events, bugs all over the floor, bots everywhere, lower ticket processing efficiency, and last, more rampant dupers.

 

Now their service worth us noting to spend on.

Oh yeah? You just wishlisted something. :heh:


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#14 Nagaame

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 07:43 AM

Gonna share some math about the new refining system so people can figure out precisely how upset to get, I guess.

 

Past:

  • Getting to +7 required getting something to the safe limit normally, and using normal ore and safe to 7 certs to prevent destruction. On average this would take about 10 certs for armor/lvl4
  • Getting from +7 to +10 required BSBs. Using enriched ores gave you the best ROI. During a refine event, this averages a total of 17 BSBs for armor/lvl4
  • Getting from +10 to +11 was 100%, incurring only the cost of the carn/brad and the 100k refining cost
  • Getting from +11 to +15 and beyond was about getting a lucky run with HD carn/brad, taking an average of 5, 38, 214, and 1220 HD ores for +12, +13, +14, and +15 respectively for armor/lvl4

Current:

  • Getting to +7 just requires one safe to 7 cert, bringing the average from 10 certs to 1. At current prices, this is about a 10m savings.
  • Getting from +7 to +10 is the same.
  • Getting from +10 to +11 is no longer 100%. If you want to be safe, it costs 7 BSBs per attempt. Using HD ore gives the best ROI, leading to an average of 35 BSB and 5 HD ores. 
  • Getting from +11 to +12 uses BSBs for the best ROI now. It averages 55 BSBs and 5 HD ores.
  • Getting from +12 to +14 is safer now since we can use BSBs. It costs an average of 100 BSBs and 6 HD ores to get from +12 to +13. It costs an average of 137 BSBs and 6 HD ores to get from +13 to +14
  • Getting from +14 to +15 is a nightmare now since you can only use HD ores and eat the downgrade. Since it'll take about 6-7 attempts and each failure brings you back to the +13 -> +14 grind, it'll take about 917 BSBs and 42 HD ores to get from +14 to +15.

So to compare the numbers:

 

Upgrade      |            Past           |           Current

+0 ->+7      |       ~10 St7 Certs       | 1 St7 Cert (yay enjoy your savings of 1.3 BSBs)

+7 ->+10     | ~17 BSB, 6.5 Enriched Ore | Same

+10->+11     |       100k + 1 ore        | 35 BSBs and 5 HD ores

+11->+12     |         ~5 HD ores        | 55 BSBs and 5 HD ores

 

For +13~+15, I'll list the cumulative since in the past, +12->+13 didn't really make sense because of the downgrade potential

+10->+13     |        ~38 HD ores        | 190 BSBs and 16 HD ores (remember it's cumulative)

+10->+14     |       ~214 HD ores        | 328 BSBs and 23 HD ores

+10->+15     |      ~1220 HD ores        | 1244 BSBs and 64 HD ores

 

 

Going by rough estimates of market prices of St7 = 1.1m, BSB = 7m, EElu/Ori = 6m, HD Car/Bra = 3m we end up with the following table of costs (cumulative)

Upgrade | Past   | Current

+7      | 11m    | 1.1m

+8      | 32.7m  | 22.8m

+9      | 72.7m  | 62.8m

+10     | 169.8m | 159.9m

+11     | 169.9m | 419.9m

+12     | 185m   | 820m

+13     | 282m   | 1,539m

+14     | 812m   | 2,520m

+15     | 3,830m | 9,065m

 

Let me know if this sounds about right. I haven't upgraded since the change because I was holding out for a revert of the +10->+11 system.

 

I'm using some old monte carlo simulations to determine the old average HD ore count for +12 to +15. Since these are averages, and each step varies greatly in terms of cost, actual cost results will probably differ significantly.


Edited by Nagaame, 17 October 2023 - 07:50 AM.

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#15 sokernet

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 08:32 AM

you dont have to use bsb past +10 just use hd car/bra ores, when it downgrade to 9 spam hd elu/ori back to +10 


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#16 PervySageMarty

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 10:43 AM

From what i understand from Cate's post they are completely clueless about it, prob dont even understand how it works and i dont blame then, the mess that has piled up along the years has lead to this, at this point the server is hold together with tasteless gum, about to fall apart.

 

I just wanted to piggyback this topic to say that I haven't seen you in a long time Vividort, its good to see you (or whatever is left of you) back.


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#17 DDQuidam

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 01:35 PM

Holy... i knew the game was dying but this is literally actively killing it. Not that it's surprising though


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#18 ZHONGKAIH

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 02:45 PM

Come on, bruv. Cate is basically saying that MVP cards and whatnot are not selling out in other regions. That can't be right, can it? Who the hell does not want MVP cards?  :heh:

 

Oh yeah? You just wishlisted something. 

perhaps you don't know something called zeny lmao :heh:


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#19 Alicia

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 04:01 PM

tldr?


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#20 Alicia

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 04:02 PM

I just wanted to piggyback?

 

Was the best response.


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#21 Argetlahm

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 04:20 PM

Gonna share some math about the new refining system so people can figure out precisely how upset to get, I guess.

Past:

  • Getting to +7 required getting something to the safe limit normally, and using normal ore and safe to 7 certs to prevent destruction. On average this would take about 10 certs for armor/lvl4
  • Getting from +7 to +10 required BSBs. Using enriched ores gave you the best ROI. During a refine event, this averages a total of 17 BSBs for armor/lvl4
  • Getting from +10 to +11 was 100%, incurring only the cost of the carn/brad and the 100k refining cost
  • Getting from +11 to +15 and beyond was about getting a lucky run with HD carn/brad, taking an average of 5, 38, 214, and 1220 HD ores for +12, +13, +14, and +15 respectively for armor/lvl4
Current:
  • Getting to +7 just requires one safe to 7 cert, bringing the average from 10 certs to 1. At current prices, this is about a 10m savings.
  • Getting from +7 to +10 is the same.
  • Getting from +10 to +11 is no longer 100%. If you want to be safe, it costs 7 BSBs per attempt. Using HD ore gives the best ROI, leading to an average of 35 BSB and 5 HD ores.
  • Getting from +11 to +12 uses BSBs for the best ROI now. It averages 55 BSBs and 5 HD ores.
  • Getting from +12 to +14 is safer now since we can use BSBs. It costs an average of 100 BSBs and 6 HD ores to get from +12 to +13. It costs an average of 137 BSBs and 6 HD ores to get from +13 to +14
  • Getting from +14 to +15 is a nightmare now since you can only use HD ores and eat the downgrade. Since it'll take about 6-7 attempts and each failure brings you back to the +13 -> +14 grind, it'll take about 917 BSBs and 42 HD ores to get from +14 to +15.
So to compare the numbers:

Upgrade | Past | Current
+0 ->+7 | ~10 St7 Certs | 1 St7 Cert (yay enjoy your savings of 1.3 BSBs)
+7 ->+10 | ~17 BSB, 6.5 Enriched Ore | Same
+10->+11 | 100k + 1 ore | 35 BSBs and 5 HD ores
+11->+12 | ~5 HD ores | 55 BSBs and 5 HD ores

For +13~+15, I'll list the cumulative since in the past, +12->+13 didn't really make sense because of the downgrade potential
+10->+13 | ~38 HD ores | 190 BSBs and 16 HD ores (remember it's cumulative)
+10->+14 | ~214 HD ores | 328 BSBs and 23 HD ores
+10->+15 | ~1220 HD ores | 1244 BSBs and 64 HD ores


Going by rough estimates of market prices of St7 = 1.1m, BSB = 7m, EElu/Ori = 6m, HD Car/Bra = 3m we end up with the following table of costs (cumulative)
Upgrade | Past | Current
+7 | 11m | 1.1m
+8 | 32.7m | 22.8m
+9 | 72.7m | 62.8m
+10 | 169.8m | 159.9m
+11 | 169.9m | 419.9m
+12 | 185m | 820m
+13 | 282m | 1,539m
+14 | 812m | 2,520m
+15 | 3,830m | 9,065m

Let me know if this sounds about right. I haven't upgraded since the change because I was holding out for a revert of the +10->+11 system.

I'm using some old monte carlo simulations to determine the old average HD ore count for +12 to +15. Since these are averages, and each step varies greatly in terms of cost, actual cost results will probably differ significantly.
Dood, under the current refine event, the HD Ori/Elu costs way cheaper over enriched Ori/Elu as both give the same success rate, upgrading past +10 under the current refine event the normal Brad/Carn gives the same rate as the HD Brad/Carn. There's no need to buy the Refinement Ore Boxes due to the aforementioned similar refine rates since you'd use BSBs more to protect your equipment, thus creating a wider/larger need/demand for BSBs. They should adjust the amount of BSB obtained from the newer OCPs to account for removing the +10 to +11 safety net since they chose and said they wanted to remove it. Or they could implement the para market's cert exchange.

Edited by Argetlahm, 17 October 2023 - 04:21 PM.

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#22 Thinkpad2021

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 05:37 PM

Cate as a CM will be the best thing that will happen in iRO.


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#23 Cataskung

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Posted 18 October 2023 - 03:21 AM

What makes this worse if no communication from WP whatsoever. CM just posts a patch note and goes into silent mode. I sent a ticket to ask them about the status reset, and they never reply. This is absolutely embarrassing.


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