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Ghostring nerf: in search of the history


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#1 HistorianOfRO

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Posted 08 November 2023 - 12:55 PM

Hello!
Im searching the most accurate informations about the past of Ragnarok Online, specifically this time about Ghostring Card and the change that made it not affect normal autoattacks of monsters.

 

The information im looking for are: 
1) the most accurate date of the change;
2) at which episode was Ragnarok Online at the time of the change? Im interesed in which were the monters present in the game at the time.

And if anybody has some working link or screenshot of the webpages that at the time informed the players of the change, taht would be awesome!

Now, reply with your knowledge guys! And thank you for the time :)

 


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#2 vividort

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Posted 09 November 2023 - 12:29 PM

was that ever a thing? from what i remember, its always been a misconception to how ghostring card works, it reduces neutral dmg due to providing ghost element, players do neutral dmg auto-attacks in pvp but monsters do non-elemental dmg, people thought it would reduce normal monster attacks cause they didn't realize monsters had that, if anything got changed it prob dates to renewal although i think its always been like that.

 

PS.: did some searching on kRO update archive and found this: June 3rd (Thu) Maintenance Notice for All Servers (Completed)

 

"Fixed an issue where the Ghost Card's options were applied to monsters."

 

Best i could find about it.


Edited by vividort, 09 November 2023 - 12:43 PM.

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#3 HistorianOfRO

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Posted 10 November 2023 - 12:06 AM

At the time i was a new player so i dont remember nor knew much about the game, but i remember it was a pretty big deal this "nerf/fix" and it was talked alot, back in the days. When i heard of it, it was already years old, and we're talking waaaay before Renewal: it happened during original Ragnarok Online. I dont know if before Trascension implementation or before, but originally everything was supposed to deal Neutral element damage as a baseline, monsters too. I began playing when nameless Island was added, and the change had already happened.
Basically, being Ghost 1 reduced 75% of the damage in pvm, as the majority of the damage component was neutral element: especially the monsters's autoattacks. Imagine how much you can tank and how many monsters you can mob if you take only 1/4 of the damage just by the armor you wear; then the shield's reductions, the hard-def, raydric card... So, they changed the baseline element of monsters. How? they are still neutral element but in the codes the adjustment is skipped. This way they end up being element "Null", or "no-element". A sort of mytical 11th element, thats not counted by Ghost 1 armor element, as it checks only element Neutral.

iRo wiki focuses the phrase around "monsters's autoattacks" and how GR card making you ghost 1 wont do anything.
This though later lead to another "issue", or more like "incongruence" in the elemental rules for monsters; when monsters began to appear using Sonic Blow, or things like Brandish Spear, skills that determines their damage element upon the user's weapon's element, these monsters now eneded assigning the "Null" element to those skills. And Ghost 1 armor was intended from the beginning (and never changed) to reduce Neutral damage; they just discovered that it was too OP for tanking monsters's autoattacks. So, these skills now that were supposed to be Neutral, are not due to the "nerf" regarding a different thing, and fall outside Ghost 1 armor element. This argument is what i deducted, as im here in search of more detailed informations, as i mentioned in the first post. So its an ipothesis but it kinda makes sense.
Like when MVPs had huge values of VIT, then with the transcended classes and Creator's Acid Bomb they had to reduce their VIT down to 30 because Creator was too OP. The same with GR and the autoattacks. Tho, as i said before, later down the way it ended affecting baseline element dependat skills used by monsters. Too bad that the game changed sooo much that they will never fix that, making clones of the skills and set their attribute to Neutral, as it was supposed to be, because with 3rd jobs and, oh gosh... 4th... jobs... dealing hundred of millions of damage, and having hundreds of thousands of health... for them it doesnt matter coherenting the situation.


Edited by HistorianOfRO, 10 November 2023 - 01:04 AM.

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#4 Quoc

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 12:26 AM

At the time i was a new player so i dont remember nor knew much about the game, but i remember it was a pretty big deal this "nerf/fix" and it was talked alot, back in the days. When i heard of it, it was already years old, and we're talking waaaay before Renewal: it happened during original Ragnarok Online. I dont know if before Trascension implementation or before, but originally everything was supposed to deal Neutral element damage as a baseline, monsters too. I began playing when nameless Island was added, and the change had already happened.
Basically, being Ghost 1 reduced 75% of the damage in pvm, as the majority of the damage component was neutral element: especially the monsters's autoattacks. Imagine how much you can tank and how many monsters you can mob if you take only 1/4 of the damage just by the armor you wear; then the shield's reductions, the hard-def, raydric card... So, they changed the baseline element of monsters. How? they are still neutral element but in the codes the adjustment is skipped. This way they end up being element "Null", or "no-element". A sort of mytical 11th element, thats not counted by Ghost 1 armor element, as it checks only element Neutral.

iRo wiki focuses the phrase around "monsters's autoattacks" and how GR card making you ghost 1 wont do anything.
This though later lead to another "issue", or more like "incongruence" in the elemental rules for monsters; when monsters began to appear using Sonic Blow, or things like Brandish Spear, skills that determines their damage element upon the user's weapon's element, these monsters now eneded assigning the "Null" element to those skills. And Ghost 1 armor was intended from the beginning (and never changed) to reduce Neutral damage; they just discovered that it was too OP for tanking monsters's autoattacks. So, these skills now that were supposed to be Neutral, are not due to the "nerf" regarding a different thing, and fall outside Ghost 1 armor element. This argument is what i deducted, as im here in search of more detailed informations, as i mentioned in the first post. So its an ipothesis but it kinda makes sense.
Like when MVPs had huge values of VIT, then with the transcended classes and Creator's Acid Bomb they had to reduce their VIT down to 30 because Creator was too OP. The same with GR and the autoattacks. Tho, as i said before, later down the way it ended affecting baseline element dependat skills used by monsters. Too bad that the game changed sooo much that they will never fix that, making clones of the skills and set their attribute to Neutral, as it was supposed to be, because with 3rd jobs and, oh gosh... 4th... jobs... dealing hundred of millions of damage, and having hundreds of thousands of health... for them it doesnt matter coherenting the situation.

From my experience, that is wrong. Ghostring never reduced PvM auto-attack monster damage by 75%, at least not to my knowledge in iRO.

The main reason why Ghostring was such a strong card back in the days was literally because it was the card that lets basically anyone survive an Asura Strike which often means 1-hit ko in pvp/woe. Later on, MvPs were introduced skills and Earthquake in particular, it basically allowed you to spam potion to survive it. As for practical PvM situations, Deviling when it was introduced was way more versatile and the price reflected that. This was the true garment that reduced all forms of neutral damage, including regular monster attacks. Devilling, even with receiving 50% from all non-neutral element, it was more valuable than Ghostring simply because it was the only item in game that allowed such massive neutral resistance to both skills and auto-attacks.


Edited by Quoc, 12 November 2023 - 12:29 AM.

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#5 FishDeity

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 08:30 AM

so for items descriptions that reduce neutral damage, how come they didn't include non-elemental in the description as well? It sure would have reduced the confusion


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#6 HistorianOfRO

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 01:11 PM

From my experience, that is wrong. Ghostring never reduced PvM auto-attack monster damage by 75%, at least not to my knowledge in iRO.

The main reason why Ghostring was such a strong card back in the days was literally because it was the card that lets basically anyone survive an Asura Strike which often means 1-hit ko in pvp/woe. Later on, MvPs were introduced skills and Earthquake in particular, it basically allowed you to spam potion to survive it. As for practical PvM situations, Deviling when it was introduced was way more versatile and the price reflected that. This was the true garment that reduced all forms of neutral damage, including regular monster attacks. Devilling, even with receiving 50% from all non-neutral element, it was more valuable than Ghostring simply because it was the only item in game that allowed such massive neutral resistance to both skills and auto-attacks.

 

Thank you for your input;

If we assume that info is true, then why the monsters normal hits are of a mythical 11th unspoken element? Why raydric and deviling, which speaks of reducing only Neutral element, reduce that 11th element too but Ghost 1 armor element (which reduced the neutral incoming dmg by 75%) doesnt?

["from your knowledge on iRO": when? Before or after trans? After trans but before Renewal? After Renewal? Because, remember that before renewal the %s were different (and i referr to pre-renewal as "Original RO"; okay, some may still reasonably argue that pre-trans was original RO, but the mechanics didnt change with that expansion, as instead happened heavily with the advent of Renewal, so i consider non-trans and trans RO as "Original RO"), and back then the ghost 1 reduced the neutral damage by 75%: 100 damage ended being 25 only. And thats not a reduction that diminishes like harddef if many monsters hit you at the same time. And in the very early days of RO, i think right after the launch at the end of the beta, shield cards reduces damage by 50%; they were then changed quickly down to 30%, because 50% was effectively too much reduction.]

 

 


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#7 vividort

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 06:44 PM

Ok, i found this korean blog post about boss cards from 2003, there is a Q&A part that states that the card is useless for normal play but the strongest card for pvp. It seems that the card was working against normal monsters after renewal at some point but got fixed on the patch i posted before, i think this is the best we'll get for now.


Edited by vividort, 19 November 2023 - 06:44 PM.

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#8 HistorianOfRO

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 10:58 AM

Ok, i found this korean blog post about boss cards from 2003, there is a Q&A part that states that the card is useless for normal play but the strongest card for pvp. It seems that the card was working against normal monsters after renewal at some point but got fixed on the patch i posted before, i think this is the best we'll get for now.

Ohh interesting, thank you again for this input also!~

So it seems that there is a portion of code, in the game, that "accidentally" reverted/had to be applied again in early days of renewal; this reinforces the vision of the original monster were effectively Neutral element in their attacks.
Then the change should have happened before september 2003... interesting. Maybe in the very first year of RO.


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