22 replies to this topic

[Scotteh101]

I just started a few days ago, and I've read a lot. And I mean a lot.
There seems to be a lot of controversy about Dexterity since renewal.
I'm currently 57/8, just changed to Wizard last night, and I just hit 70 int 40 dex.
I've seen some people say stop dex at 40, others at 60, some people still say max it out.
Obviously there's a lot of different opinions on the topic, so I guess I'd just like to hear yours, and preferably why.

Thanks in advance for replies
-Scott

[Suzz]

99dex recommended for wizzy class

[Drak231]

Just take this formula and compare it with some different numbers for dex, you'll see that the difference is not major :

http://forums.warppo...370#entry237370

Also, don't consider the vit part, it was for Safety Wall, but the skill still uses int for the calculation and not vit.

[Gnosis]

Just take this formula and compare it with some different numbers for dex, you'll see that the difference is not major :

http://forums.warppo...370#entry237370

Also, don't consider the vit part, it was for Safety Wall, but the skill still uses int for the calculation and not vit.

I believe your calculations are slightly off in that thread, but the difference is the same.

I would say to invest in LUK instead of dex and get some siroma clips. I can cast a powerful lvl15* cold bolt in the time it would take to cast a lvl5 bolt. Great way to grind in certain places.

[Fibrizzo]

Talking about matk: 9 luk = 2 int. Luk is fine for gain some points on matk but... I think some vit is better for wizards. 4 matk won't make a difference but having 1k+ HP is a nice deal.

I like wizards with higher dex. I don't think 60 dex is enough for wizard's skills. Unless you're going to leveling with magician skills (bolts...) a higher amount of dex is needed. Dex increase also matk, less than luk, but a faster cast allows you can deal more damage in less time (for those who like a good exp/hour is fine and even for pvp and woe a fast cast helps a lot)

[Drak231]

It's really hard as a wizard to know what to put...

99 int

And then what? Dex reduce like a** lol, Vit with a safety wall build (like mine) is not really necessary.

Matk wise,
0.67 int = 1 Mtk,
5 dex = 1 mtk and
3 luk = 1 mtk

A bit of all? 99 int, 30 luk, 50 dex, 20-30 vit?

P.S. : Where were my calculations off? Not offended at all, just want to know for my info

[Gnosis]

P.S. : Where were my calculations off? Not offended at all, just want to know for my info

Well as I said in that thread, my interpretation might be wrong but when were doing the calculations it seems as though you multiplied the baseCast using 2 different numbers, 4 (4*0.8)and 5 (5*0.2)respectively. I only bring it up to make sure I have a solid understanding of it. ;3

[Scotteh101]

It's really hard as a wizard to know what to put...

99 int

And then what? Dex reduce like a** lol, Vit with a safety wall build (like mine) is not really necessary.

Matk wise,
0.67 int = 1 Mtk,
5 dex = 1 mtk and
3 luk = 1 mtk

A bit of all? 99 int, 30 luk, 50 dex, 20-30 vit?

P.S. : Where were my calculations off? Not offended at all, just want to know for my info

Since you brought it up, is safety wall a necessity for wizards?
I didn't put any points in it while I was leveling as mage
My build looks like this currently
http://web.hc.keio.a...kxadojQabcKanak
I was planning on putting a few points into ice wall and maxing out storm gust
I know SP recovery isn't really necessary, but I wasn't really sure where else to put the points. And I realize I messed up by getting lightning bolt up to level 7, as Jupitel Thunder is supposedly better, could've used those points to max out my cold bolt. (Could've used the points in SP Recovery to max out cold bolt, as well)
Anything else?

[EvilLoynis]

Since you brought it up, is safety wall a necessity for wizards?
I didn't put any points in it while I was leveling as mage
My build looks like this currently
http://web.hc.keio.a...kxadojQabcKanak
I was planning on putting a few points into ice wall and maxing out storm gust
I know SP recovery isn't really necessary, but I wasn't really sure where else to put the points. And I realize I messed up by getting lightning bolt up to level 7, as Jupitel Thunder is supposedly better, could've used those points to max out my cold bolt. (Could've used the points in SP Recovery to max out cold bolt, as well)
Anything else?

Well I believe these were the mistakes made and points wasted:

Lightning Bolt past lvl 4 - wasted 3 points - You were right Jupitel Thunder has a Much better damage and cast time I believe. Also the HillWind card does not improve LBolt but does JT and also JT has NO Cast Delay. This is really helpful if you level on Siroma's. My 92 Wiz is kind of stuck there atm and can kill them with 2 hits of it without getting hit.

Thunder Storm past lvl 1 - Wasted 2 points here - since you maxed both LoV and JT no need for this.

Cold Bolt not maxed. - 3 points needed - this skill is just so good, especially with 2 Siroma Cards and just kicks but.

SP Recovery - just fine in fact if the above was corrected you could have 2 more in in here. Wizards SP pool got kind of nerf'd with Renewal so especially when using Energy Shield your sp goes down pretty quick.

[Scotteh101]

Well I believe these were the mistakes made and points wasted:

Lightning Bolt past lvl 4 - wasted 3 points - You were right Jupitel Thunder has a Much better damage and cast time I believe. Also the HillWind card does not improve LBolt but does JT and also JT has NO Cast Delay. This is really helpful if you level on Siroma's. My 92 Wiz is kind of stuck there atm and can kill them with 2 hits of it without getting hit.

Thunder Storm past lvl 1 - Wasted 2 points here - since you maxed both LoV and JT no need for this.

Cold Bolt not maxed. - 3 points needed - this skill is just so good, especially with 2 Siroma Cards and just kicks but.

SP Recovery - just fine in fact if the above was corrected you could have 2 more in in here. Wizards SP pool got kind of nerf'd with Renewal so especially when using Energy Shield your sp goes down pretty quick.

All seems reasonable. 2 other questions
Do skill points get reset with trans?
And if so, would it still be "worth it" to buy a reset to get there?

[EvilLoynis]

All seems reasonable. 2 other questions
Do skill points get reset with trans?
And if so, would it still be "worth it" to buy a reset to get there?

Yes when you Transcend both your Stats and Skills get reset and you become a lvl 1 High Novice with 100 stat points to spend fresh off. When you first start off you get 48 stat points but you can't use them as affectively.

I do not Believe that your skills are so badly off that you need a reset atm. If you find you need Cold Bolt it's easy enough to use 3 wiz points to max it, also HD should be maxed so you can lvl on Roweens at lvl 80-90 (there lvl 85). Theres not much you need to use Cold Bolt on till you hit Magmarings and you can't start on them till lvl 95 anyway.

[Scotteh101]

Yes when you Transcend both your Stats and Skills get reset and you become a lvl 1 High Novice with 100 stat points to spend fresh off. When you first start off you get 48 stat points but you can't use them as affectively.

I do not Believe that your skills are so badly off that you need a reset atm. If you find you need Cold Bolt it's easy enough to use 3 wiz points to max it, also HD should be maxed so you can lvl on Roweens at lvl 80-90 (there lvl 85). Theres not much you need to use Cold Bolt on till you hit Magmarings and you can't start on them till lvl 95 anyway.

Cool, thanks for the advice.
I have spare points to max out both in my current build strat. And I believe I'll still have some left over

[Drak231]

Well as I said in that thread, my interpretation might be wrong but when were doing the calculations it seems as though you multiplied the baseCast using 2 different numbers, 4 (4*0.8)and 5 (5*0.2)respectively. I only bring it up to make sure I have a solid understanding of it. ;3

Sorry I didn't answer in the other thread because darktie22 did lol

As he said, Dex/int reduction only apply to the variable cast time. In my example, I used 5 secs as a whole for the cast time. I also said hypothetically that the fixed cast time would be 1 sec (because most of the spells use a 20% fixed cast time) and 4 sec as variable. Also, no equipment were considered in the calculations; only the stats.

I don't understand what you mean by 4*0.8? I didn't use that But 5*0.2 would indeed make 1 sec fixed cast.

All seems reasonable. 2 other questions
Do skill points get reset with trans?
And if so, would it still be "worth it" to buy a reset to get there?

I disagree with EvilLoynis here. Don't waste 15$ just for a mage as your skills will reset when you get to high novice. Here's what I would do with your build : http://web.hc.keio.a...kxadojQabcKHXgK

Remove the 2 extra points from either SG, LoV or MS as you like. FW with Quagmire can be quite nice if used appropriately. As for your other questions, most of the players use FW, but I prefer Safety wall and that is a personnal choice.

As EvilLoynis said, you indeed wasted 3 points in lightning bolt and 2 points in thunderstorm. Increase sp recovery is indeed not used that much; 3 points are enough. Cold bolt isn't that necessary either. The only skill you won't have is the most powerful wizard skill : Water Ball. Problem is, with waterball, you use it rarely as it requires somewhere where there is water. Even with sage + Deluge spell, it's hard to master. That said, it's no big deal if you don't have it yet as a mage.

Don't waste 15$ please lol

[Scotteh101]

I disagree with EvilLoynis here. Don't waste 15$ just for a mage as your skills will reset when you get to high novice. Here's what I would do with your build : http://web.hc.keio.a...kxadojQabcKHXgK

Remove the 2 extra points from either SG, LoV or MS as you like. FW with Quagmire can be quite nice if used appropriately. As for your other questions, most of the players use FW, but I prefer Safety wall and that is a personnal choice.

As EvilLoynis said, you indeed wasted 3 points in lightning bolt and 2 points in thunderstorm. Increase sp recovery is indeed not used that much; 3 points are enough. Cold bolt isn't that necessary either. The only skill you won't have is the most powerful wizard skill : Water Ball. Problem is, with waterball, you use it rarely as it requires somewhere where there is water. Even with sage + Deluge spell, it's hard to master. That said, it's no big deal if you don't have it yet as a mage.

Don't waste 15$ please lol

Of course. Is quag level 5 really necessary? I've read level 2 is more than enough
And I haven't really heard anything good about Meteor Storm at all
I get that this is "my character" and I should do it "my way," but, I'm trying to get some opinions on the different ways to go

[EvilLoynis]

I disagree with EvilLoynis here. Don't waste 15$ just for a mage as your skills will reset when you get to high novice. Here's what I would do with your build : http://web.hc.keio.a...kxadojQabcKHXgK

Remove the 2 extra points from either SG, LoV or MS as you like. FW with Quagmire can be quite nice if used appropriately. As for your other questions, most of the players use FW, but I prefer Safety wall and that is a personnal choice.

As EvilLoynis said, you indeed wasted 3 points in lightning bolt and 2 points in thunderstorm. Increase sp recovery is indeed not used that much; 3 points are enough. Cold bolt isn't that necessary either. The only skill you won't have is the most powerful wizard skill : Water Ball. Problem is, with waterball, you use it rarely as it requires somewhere where there is water. Even with sage + Deluge spell, it's hard to master. That said, it's no big deal if you don't have it yet as a mage.

Don't waste 15$ please lol

I never said that he should reset. My yes was to the fact that skills reset ounce he trans's.

Yes when you Transcend both your Stats and Skills get reset and you become a lvl 1 High Novice with 100 stat points to spend fresh off. When you first start off you get 48 stat points but you can't use them as affectively.

I do not Believe that your skills are so badly off that you need a reset atm. If you find you need Cold Bolt it's easy enough to use 3 wiz points to max it, also HD should be maxed so you can lvl on Roweens at lvl 80-90 (there lvl 85). Theres not much you need to use Cold Bolt on till you hit Magmarings and you can't start on them till lvl 95 anyway.

As far as his skills go I would recommend this setup for his remaining points :

http://web.hc.keio.a...kxadojQafwkbxak

Heavens Drive is needed I believe as it is the best of the 2 earth damage skills. It does more damage and is AoE. It is quite good for leveling on Roweens starting around 85ish. FWall + Quag + HD ftw.

I used to have Meteor Storm but it was never that useful as it takes to long to cast and is not as reliable to use. Of the 3 BIG AoE skills SG is the best to use as it consistently deals more damage. Also LoV is really good to pair with it but is not necessary.

This is my Current skill build with my Wizard. I still have 5 points left to spend. I am currently level 92/50 and kind of stuck leveling. The best I can really do solo safely is Siromas atm.


Edit: Here is my current stat and equipment setup on my Wiz as well. Also have 2x Siroma Clips for accessories as well.

Edited by EvilLoynis, 23 January 2011 - 11:29 AM.

[Scotteh101]

http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/wiz.html?10ykekxadojQafwkbxak

This is more what I had in mind. But, there again, is level 5 quagmire really necessary?
Couldn't I drop 3 points from that and put them into colt bolt to max it out?

[EvilLoynis]

This is more what I had in mind. But, there again, is level 5 quagmire really necessary?
Couldn't I drop 3 points from that and put them into colt bolt to max it out?

Quagmire is one of those skills that it's either Max or not at all really. Lvl 1 and 2 just don't do that much. PvP lvl 1 is ok, as you will mainly use it to debuff them.

Also before maxing Cold Bolt now just keep in mind if you are actually going to have any opportunity to use it to effectively level. I am not to sure how good it is beyond lvl 80 or so. it's just that Fire Monsters are usually more mobby after that and aggro.

[Drak231]

Sorry about that, I misread EL :S

Also, MS is nice to have as a fire Aoe. Example of use is in Einbroch Mine dungeon. I like to have Fire/Ice/Wind so I can go pretty much everywhere I want. Note that I don't Woe. I heard Frost Nova was good now (didn't even tried it) but SG in Pvp/PvM is enough for me (even if I never Pvped yet here). Alot of builds can be good if played correctly and if you know where you're going with them.

Also, Scotteh101, the skill tree I posted was just a suggestion... I know it's your build, you do whatever you want with it lol.

[Gnosis]

Sorry I didn't answer in the other thread because darktie22 did lol

As he said, Dex/int reduction only apply to the variable cast time. In my example, I used 5 secs as a whole for the cast time. I also said hypothetically that the fixed cast time would be 1 sec (because most of the spells use a 20% fixed cast time) and 4 sec as variable. Also, no equipment were considered in the calculations; only the stats.

I don't understand what you mean by 4*0.8? I didn't use that But 5*0.2 would indeed make 1 sec fixed cast.

Ah. Yes I didn't explain the issue I had well enough. I believe you multiplied by 0.8 twice with (1 - SQRT((Dex * 2 + Int) / 530))*0.8 {30dex 99int} to get the number 0.36182195399586710923442417376 and again with baseCast{5} to get the number 4.

I was comming up with a different number when subtracting the sqrt of .3 from 1.

[Drak231]

Ah. Yes I didn't explain the issue I had well enough. I believe you multiplied by 0.8 twice with (1 - SQRT((Dex * 2 + Int) / 530))*0.8 {30dex 99int} to get the number 0.36182195399586710923442417376 and again with baseCast{5} to get the number 4.

I was comming up with a different number when subtracting the sqrt of .3 from 1.

You're right, I edited the post! Thxs and sorry about that :S

[Scotteh101]

Sorry about that, I misread EL :S

Also, MS is nice to have as a fire Aoe. Example of use is in Einbroch Mine dungeon. I like to have Fire/Ice/Wind so I can go pretty much everywhere I want. Note that I don't Woe. I heard Frost Nova was good now (didn't even tried it) but SG in Pvp/PvM is enough for me (even if I never Pvped yet here). Alot of builds can be good if played correctly and if you know where you're going with them.

Also, Scotteh101, the skill tree I posted was just a suggestion... I know it's your build, you do whatever you want with it lol.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to be rude
I've just seen a lot of people say that when others are asking for build info

[Gnosis]

You're right, I edited the post! Thxs and sorry about that :S

No worries I was fortunate you posted that formula to begin with. =3

[Mwrip]

The good news is that the cast time formula curves very fast in the beginning, making it very easy to halve and even quarter your cast time. The bad news is that with the 20% fixed cast, you simply aren't going to go much further than that.

Exactly where to stop dex is debatable, but it's most definitely less than 99. I'd say pick a number somewhere in the 40-80 range. I personally went 80, but that's probably a bit overkill. You definitely won't want more than that.