44 replies to this topic

[Gojio]

We all know Champs are...strong, let's say so, lol.

One first very important thing that should be done, I think, is setting weapon requirement back on skills, and go back to the 3 different possible paths: sword, spear or axe, BUT only for the 2nd Job skill tree, while "Soldier" skills should stay open to all weapons, in order to grant 2 decent stuns regardless of which path you choose after taking 2nd Job.

Second: their mov.speed should be decreased. I mean, how can they run so fast while wearing a golden (aurum) or any other "heavy" armor? Gold is freaking heavy!

Third: less def, they almost tank as much as knights. I mean, not like 5k def less, but a little bit less wouldn't be that bad.

After this, every "path" will have his strenths and his weaknesses.

EDIT:
After gearing my champ and playing it for some days, I made considerations about it, which you can find in my post in the 2nd page.

Edited by Gojio, 10 February 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[hgt67u]

AGREED!

It's way too much when they have got berserk, 25% m-speed passive and 20% def passive... :S

[Metaleux]

Most of this already got discussed, but yeah it might be wirth making a new thead about it since the last one died.

One first very important thing that should be done, I think, is setting weapon requirement back on skills, and go back to the 3 different possible paths: sword, spear or axe, BUT only for the 2nd Job skill tree, while "Soldier" skills should stay open to all weapons, in order to grant 2 decent stuns regardless of which path you choose after taking 2nd Job.

Btw soul wreck doesn't stun anymore, and the only other one is the axe one so it's only 1 stun (I am not aware of another one).
And I agree with weap reqs on skills since axe would have the best stunning skills, the counter part being that it's the only good thing they have.

Edit : my bad for the stuns... I was retarded xD yes there are 2 stuns

Edited by Metaleux, 01 February 2011 - 01:29 PM.

[Santa1K]

They should put soulwreck back to normal(where it can stun) but then put weapon restrictions on skills. That way champs wont have 4 stuns

[Gojio]

They should put soulwreck back to normal(where it can stun) but then put weapon restrictions on skills. That way champs wont have 4 stuns

That would make it 3 stuns. 2 are enough.

[Phish]

Don't put the restrictions on champ weapon skills, open more options for other classes.

[Gojio]

Don't put the restrictions on champ weapon skills, open more options for other classes.

How can you open more other classes? What else can mages or clerics use rather than staffs and wands?

Instead of balancing the only overpowered class, cause others are pretty balanced, you want them to mess up with the whole system again? There will never be a balance that way...

[Phish]

How can you open more other classes? What else can mages or clerics use rather than staffs and wands?

Instead of balancing the only overpowered class, cause others are pretty balanced, you want them to mess up with the whole system again? There will never be a balance that way...

Champs have very diverse skill builds; many different skills to choose from and different passives. Because of this people's there is alot of uniqueness to individual players builds.

I think that some of the passives should be lowered in the amount they give/reduce the duration of certain debuffs but not specifically restrict them for each weapon again because that makes builds linear again.


Compare this to a scout or mage for example. Almost all players will have very similar builds because there isn't all that much to choose from skill wise. What I was implying is that new skills/passives should be available for classes that are lacking in that department. Ie, a mage can have a seperate accuracy passive (maybe 15% for 9 points) that they could choose to invest into.

[iBryan]

Make a thread on how scout should have def down or remove the cooldowns between 1st class & 2nd class stun !

[Gojio]

Champs have very diverse skill builds; many different skills to choose from and different passives. Because of this people's there is alot of uniqueness to individual players builds.

I think that some of the passives should be lowered in the amount they give/reduce the duration of certain debuffs but not specifically restrict them for each weapon again because that makes builds linear again.


Compare this to a scout or mage for example. Almost all players will have very similar builds because there isn't all that much to choose from skill wise. What I was implying is that new skills/passives should be available for classes that are lacking in that department. Ie, a mage can have a seperate accuracy passive (maybe 15% for 9 points) that they could choose to invest into.

yea but this uniqueness makes them overpowered, because they can have all stuns, all aoes and pick passives from other paths to increase acc etc.

The other classes are fine, they do well. Why change everything is the issue is with 1 or 2 only?

Weaken champs and strengthen bourgs, that's what makes it balanced.

[SilverBlood]

Lemmie quote RedSapphire's raider guide from the old forums ( part about hybrid build):
" The weakness in this build is that, being a jack of all trade forces you to become a master of none. Even while you can equip both katar and duals."

Guess champs missed that logic They can just roll a dice to decide wich weap they'll use in next UW and still be able to use most skills.

Never understood why they took away the weap req...

Edited by SilverBlood, 01 February 2011 - 03:15 PM.

[Blitzkrieg]

putting weapon requirements back is not needed....i like versatility

then need to have

MSPD nerfed (really hard -lol they would still be faster than any other class even with quick step removed)

DEF nerfed (not completely but atleast to an appreciable level)

debuffs nerfed - i have never understood why only champs get two pretty good debuffs on every skill even AOEs (they are fine with 1 debuff each skill)

[Soda]

Don't put the restrictions on champ weapon skills, open more options for other classes.

Wont say anything about this thread since i pretty much said everything in the other champ threads. Anyways...MAKE THIS HAPPEN! just remove all weap req from all class! I LIKE BEING VERSATILE and not sticking into one build.

[angrynull]

Shouldn't scouts/raiders be the fastest? It seems like champs have better debuffs than a mage does. That's silly. I never get death glitched from a mage champs - all the time. 2 many debuffs - they are not magical. they are soldiers


btw: gold is a light alloy

also: champs suck ;p bc they are so overpowered there are too many of them. it makes choosing knight seem retarded. why even have knight if champ can nearly parallel their specialty ?

lolrose.

[Neptizzle]

I think this idea is much better than people think. Spear and axe champs will lose 20% acc, which will result in more champs choosing for balanced weapons instead of hardened weapons. This way they'll lose some AP.

Two 50% stuns instead of two 50% stuns and a 70% stun is a huge difference. Normally I use mute after Slugger (70% stun), because I'm pretty sure it will stun. Now when I wear a sword or spear I'll have to wait till I finally get a stun and cast mute then. If I don't plan this, the chance of getting interrupted while casting the skill is too high.

About the diversity of champs. I think this will actually need much more skill to get a good champ up and running. There are still plenty different types of champs possible.

Maybe it's an idea to change the attack speed passive of a spear champ to soldier and the moving speed passive from soldier to spear champ. This way the champs will lose the following:

- Spear will lose accuracy and a 70% stun (and maybe AP if you choose for balanced)
- Sword will lose moving speed and a 70% stun
- Axe will lose accuracy and moving speed (and maybe AP if you choose for balanced)

How does this sound?

[Soda]

It seems like champs have better debuffs than a mage does. That's silly.2many debuffs - they are not magical. they are soldiers


also: champs suck ;p bc they are so overpowered there are too many of them. it makes choosing knight seem retarded. why even have knight if champ can nearly parallel their specialty ?

lolrose.

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING especially the bold ones.

[iRon]

if this happens
Everybody turns into Axe
and 2handed sword and spear will be history

[Metaleux]

if this happens
Everybody turns into Axe
and 2handed sword and spear will be history

I wouldn't bet on it.
There would be more axe champs then now indeed, but I don't see why a small amount of spear or sword is worse then how it is at the moment with only a small amount of axe.

[twitch]

k this is the way i feel about champs and the nerf things.
Champ in general are have a huge advantage on every other class and alot of ways but making them completely un-usable is not the answer either,ive posted this on the recent champ thread but i guess ill post it again.


-25% mvspd (take away quick step)
-20% defense(take away defense mastery in the basic tree)
-10% hp (take away last 2 hp passives)
this right here will assure champs to be "nerfed" yet play-able i agree that champs are to fast compared to other classes but i believe that they should be 2nd fastest in the game (behind the scout/raider class) reason why is because champs are meant for quick movement speed and running into a crowd and being able to tank.Even with a cut of 20% it wont hurt a champ that bad,and 20% movement speed cut would bring them down to normal speed,the hp would cut back on the "tank" ability.I've always said it and i will say it again champs need the nerf but its very critical on how they do this,because if they go with the type of suggestions you guys give they'll be like pre-orlo extinct.Something like giving them weapon requirements would be ludicrous why restrict someone.I do agree on a nerf on champs yet,i would just be aware of the suggestions people are posting.Champs are op but when still want them to be "playable" once or when they get nerfed.

[Blitzkrieg]

Wont say anything about this thread since i pretty much said everything in the other champ threads. Anyways...MAKE THIS HAPPEN! just remove all weap req from all class! I LIKE BEING VERSATILE and not sticking into one build.

naa i dont think so

it wont help raiders a lot
it wont help mages
it will overpower bourgs
and champs will remain OP
doesnt help a lot does it

[Soda]

naa i dont think so

it wont help raiders a lot
it wont help mages
it will overpower bourgs
and champs will remain OP
doesnt help a lot does it

There are certain debuffs/buffs a raider can use (If you're katar) on the dual side if they remove weap req. Mages, uhh.. They only need extra m-spd passive so idk what advantage they can get. For bourgs, I know this has been discussed tons of times they need a DOT skill, so instead of adding a new skill just make it so that launcher bourgs can use the poison on gun side. (Well im not sure if 2 range stuns (zulie stun and the aoe one) can make them "OP" tho (Grenades, Just lower the % to like 35%). Champs, Well you already know the results since they dont have weap req. so all i can say is nerf everything that twitch said above and they're all good.

[Rawrr]

Another thing I really don't understand about champs is why they have the longest duration yet highest percentage mspd debuff, when they are already the fastest class??

[Blitzkrieg]

when they already have space attack
which is a projectile too and soul wreck gives extra defense down LOL

[onizuk4]

Wont say anything about this thread since i pretty much said everything in the other champ threads. Anyways...MAKE THIS HAPPEN! just remove all weap req from all class! I LIKE BEING VERSATILE and not sticking into one build.

sounds good, i like this idea

[AlisiaMT]

k this is the way i feel about champs and the nerf things.
Champ in general are have a huge advantage on every other class and alot of ways but making them completely un-usable is not the answer either,ive posted this on the recent champ thread but i guess ill post it again.


-25% mvspd (take away quick step)
-20% defense(take away defense mastery in the basic tree)
-10% hp (take away last 2 hp passives)
this right here will assure champs to be "nerfed" yet play-able i agree that champs are to fast compared to other classes but i believe that they should be 2nd fastest in the game (behind the scout/raider class) reason why is because champs are meant for quick movement speed and running into a crowd and being able to tank.Even with a cut of 20% it wont hurt a champ that bad,and 20% movement speed cut would bring them down to normal speed,the hp would cut back on the "tank" ability.I've always said it and i will say it again champs need the nerf but its very critical on how they do this,because if they go with the type of suggestions you guys give they'll be like pre-orlo extinct.Something like giving them weapon requirements would be ludicrous why restrict someone.I do agree on a nerf on champs yet,i would just be aware of the suggestions people are posting.Champs are op but when still want them to be "playable" once or when they get nerfed.

+1

I think they should remove weapon requirements on all classes instead of adding them to champs. It will open up builds to classes that aren't seen much, such as attack arti/cleric. The muse skill tree requires you to learn wand mastery for support skills and staff mastery for most offense skills. This is retarded because you are wasting 18 sp (36 for both) on the mastery skills just so you can hybrid out your character. Honestly I think they should combine they stats together, stuff it in the common section, and call it weapon mastery. (got kinda off "champ" topic. my apologies)