62 replies to this topic

[iiNote]

Yeah I have pretty much the same problem... haven't been able to sell many of my gears for days now.. if not weeks.

[Krispin]

I've been seeing some things starting to come down in price.

Of course I'm disappointed that I can't sell certain things for as much as I could have before, but the prices of things coming down is a good thing whether you personally like it or not.

[Mwrip]

There's also the fact that 1/3 of the players have quit, many dumping gear on the way out. Needless to say, that's significantly increased supply, and MASSIVELY decreased demand.

Edited by Mwrip, 08 February 2011 - 07:18 PM.

[jax5]

A change in renewal mechanics initially caused new items/cards to be desired.

There is a general lack of item decay in this game. Eventually, new items that enter the economy will decrease in demand if there is not a corresponding influx of new characters or other means of item exit.

Bots, soloable top tier MvPs, HD ores, lucky box end-game gear (e.g. KvM badges), and the decreased desire to upgrade certain items (e.g. marginal benefits from def upgrades in renewal) all contribute to item oversaturation.

The actual selling prices of items should go down if zeny (but not a corresponding amount of items) is removed (such as from raffle). Probably, a perceived shortage of zeny will additionally cause many to now desire it more. If they react by increasing the amount and frequency of personal items for sale, this should cause prices to plunge further.

On valk, my guess is that the majority of new zeny comes from players that buy from bot companies. If bot bannings are increased (which might be good for the game in some ways), I'd expect the short-term to result in devolution from a partial currency exchange system to one that's primarily bartering. But, because the kafra shop, although a bot company competitor in $ to zeny conversion doesn't actually fill the niche that bot companies do (bring new zeny into market), I'd expect bots/bot companies to continue to have business and persist/evolve against new detection/banning methods. Even if bots were suddenly gone, I'd imagine a number of players would be turned off by the prospect of manually picking up millions of junk loot (especially while under the effects of time-based manuals/gums/buffs with real money cost).

In my opinion, if increased bot bannings came with game changes that allowed less established players to obtain zeny, there would be increased market exchange and less profitability for bot companies (so long as new zeny-in implementations were difficult to bot and perceived as fun or acceptable).

[Fibrizzo]

Yeah, while this is completely true, it's simply not realistic to sell items for the low prices required when everyone else refuses to do so. It's not so much that I'm desperate for cash, I have enough to level off of for some time, but I have to be able to make a certain minimum profit off of my gear.

Now, that Staff of Destruction for instance. Pre-HD they were ~500mil. I can accept that they're now around ~100mil. Pricing it so it sells (~60mil) is simply not something I can do. I'd rather hang onto it until stuff starts recovering a bit.
I mean, there has been a little bit of interest in it, but it's never any zeny offers, always trades. I only accept trades if they're weighted towards me, because at the end of the day, cash it what I need, not a pile of useless crap that you couldn't vend to anyone else.

And really, in the case of the Staff of Destruction, it is one of the better weapons for the class, it's not really that it's a bad/obscure/useless item, it's just that no one seems to be able to pay me for it.

Bottom line is, I can lower prices, I can cut deals, but there is a minimum I have to make. I'm in it for profit, not for charity.

As Heim said remove a 0 of the prize and make a friend!

[Sera]

soloable top tier MvPs

This. I forgot all about this.

Now I understand.

[Kitten]

I've had a nice shop up with huge discounts for the last three days and nothing notable has sold. Nothing. Wait, I'm lying. I think I sold an Ice Firework.

[fong]

When the amount of zeny decreases the prices should follow.

It is also possible that the equipment isn't something that players need alot of. I do think this is a possible case because of the decreased synergy of upgrades / cards / gear and playing efficiency.

like this =] +1


yes,the Price should decreases soon =) (if not,thats mean,ppl 'lazy' to hunting and the storage is still not full-.-)

[WanderingCat]

just put them cheap, it'll sell

That's actually what I've been doing with most of my common equipment, but I haven't been doing that as often with my higher end items.

[Krispin]

As Heim said remove a 0 of the prize and make a friend!

More like make a reseller happy as he tacks that 0 back on and keeps it for sale at that price until either someone gets desperate enough to buy it or gives up and holds onto it in the hopes that the price goes back up.

There seems to be this mentality that xyz is worth this much and that if it doesn't sell that they should hold onto it until the economy inflates again.

Supply and demand?
What a joke.
Yeah, the sellers demand that you pay zyx for their supply and ignores that nobody wants to pay their price.
That's not how it works.

[WaterBaron]

I don't think there is a functioning market economy in this game anymore, at least not on Ymir. Nothing sells because stuff is so overinflated nobody wants it. You just see the same people vending the same items they were vending a month ago.

[Hrothmund]

Supply and demand works fine, its just a game of patience i.e. does the buyer or the seller (or other competing buyer/sellers) run out of patience first and crack?

As for staff of destruction, those things are just overpriced anyway. I bought a +8 one from a vend a couple weeks after renewal, and it had been vending for about a month. I've seen several vended since then prior to HD being announced/implemented. Same thing as to why bison horns are 2m+ when im sure half the time they dont even get picked up due to not selling.

Anyways another BIG point is that there hasnt been any new gear in a long long time, so a lot of people have everything they need (aside from new kafra hats).

[Kiromaru]

As far as not being able to sell that +8 Staff of Destruction not many people are playing Warlocks to begin with since Renewal screwed up the magic using classes badly. Maybe when we get the updates later on that give us better gear for the magic users to use and things get a bit more balanced it will sell.

[HRdevil]

I totally agree with what Jax5 and porty says, heck i've been telling myself that all the time. To repeat in my own words prices were de-evaluating before HD's due to the lesser difficulty to obtain them with alot of monster nerf and the power of a 3rd class. A bunch of RK's in new world, popular leveling spot dropping prices of cards and gears ridiculously, constant farming of MvP's and bosses. It was bound to happen in renewal.

The raffle did sink alot of zeny but not from me, Raphael only took 500k zeny from me. Everyday i get a bunch of PM message from people that cannot afford to buy some of my hard worked gears that cost over 50m for trades & such. Not to say anymore crap i'll put my list of what effects or affected the economy:

-Renewal (Not that it's a bad thing)
-Monster nerf and 3rd class power (Not that it's a bad thing)
-HD ores
-Raphael's raffel
-Bulk buyers (Due to ripping off new player for their strawberries and blue making WOE consumable cheap)
-Low population?
-Dumb merchants
-etc..

And this is all with drop penalty. I don't have any statistic about the population but if it's low it could be another posibility.

Edited by HRdevil, 08 February 2011 - 11:23 PM.

[EvilLoynis]

I have to say that I made most of my money selling Converters. Now some aholes are selling theres at like 10k per and totally ruining things for me. There not even Bots I believe and that just makes it a lot worse. I mean before Renewal and even after it for quite a while most converters sold for around 20k.

It's really sad but when I just recently trans'd my Sin I had to scrounge the zenny from like 3 or 4 of my characters. I really don't have the zenny to spare right now to Trans my Sader unfortunately. Although it is probably best as I want to use him in the BG's to earn some equip's.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

yeah lately I'm not even bothering to vend. I'm just hunting great natures and harpy feathers instead.

[CheddarJack]

ugh i know the feeling ive been trying to sell a Platinum Shield for weeks now. All i got was one really really lowball price. Other than that ive been bumping my thread on the wiki forums once a day and just hoping someone throws me a real offer.

[Daray]

+7 gear doesn't sell, let alone +0, I'm always trying to sell under the market prices without any luck.
The new drops are stacking up on my merchant,... I don't know what to do with them anymore.
At the same time I'm running dry on money for consumables...

[Gratgo]

I bought a whisper card for 6m. :]

[Mischelle]

it's simply not realistic to sell items for the low prices required when everyone else refuses to do so.

The only thing that is real is the fact that NONE of anyone's gear is actually worth what they want for it. That is a fact. You want the liquid zeny to buy something else that someone else is charging far too much for. That sucks. But what you think you deserve for your product has no actual bearing on it's actual value.

Bottom line is, I can lower prices, I can cut deals, but there is a minimum I have to make. I'm in it for profit, not for charity.

I'm not berating you. If you want to make a certain amount, by all means, go ahead and try.

But you won't.

[LethalJokeChar]

Well Sera, I'm interested in your +8 staff of destruction. However, I don't have 100m on me at this time. I would have to scrape together zeny, but that does seem hard with the way the market is going now. Also message me.

[Krispin]

I couldn't have said it any better Mischelle.

No matter how much you want for something, just because you stubbornly refuse to sell for less when nobody is buying doesn't mean that it is magically worth what you think it should be.

Edited by Krispin, 09 February 2011 - 10:37 PM.

[Daray]

Well an example dear Krispin: Long Barrel[1], average price on ragnastats is 175K ish
I put it on every day and keep reducing the price, but after a few days I put it up for 80K, it still doesn't sell.
You might say, "just sell it for even less" but then I tell you, why even bother - should I be running my computer all night to get 80k zeny?
I can get that faster just looting trash in magma dungeon and selling to NPCs...
Besides, the fact that 80K can barely make any impact in the current environment, as I burn that in consumables while I level in under 3mins.

[darkagentx]

Probably all the slingers have one already. Or the fact that aoe is more important than ever makes them obsolete, either way. Having said that, if I check later that I don't have it, then I'll be after one.

[Krispin]

It's a bad example anyway.
There weren't many gunslingers before renewal as it is and fewer that cared about rifles, and now in renewal they get left behind completely making slingers even less popular.

In this case it isn't even a matter of its price, there just isn't hardly anyone that plays a slinger to sell it to.