184 replies to this topic

[tukasa]

If Base damage ONLY will be reduced, iRO dev MUST change all formula for atk, matk, def, mdef, hit, crit, free, aspd, etc.

Renewal patch is
1. WoE is Lv.150 characters battle
2. Base damage is 60%


By the way, why did you test on PREMIUM server?

[Heimdallr]

Yeah the weapon is the only thing that element can reduce (deviling, Raydric) but the base stats still apply to skills and bypass it almost completely.

The test we were doing is to see if a 150 sura with a mace(terrible attack) could be adequately reduced to survivable. And the answer was really a no. Some skills have a special modifier that is so strong and bypasses many defensive measures that there is no way to survive. Those are the skills that are causing issues. It happens that Suras have 2 skills like that GOH and GFist. and Royal Guards have their own special formula skills too.

As said somewhere before, the magic spells are pretty consistent (no weapon component) in how they are reduced, and by happenstance most people have proper reductive gear for those.

I tested on the server that has the most consistent WoE, as well as the most active feedback persons. Tested on Sakray would have been pointless with the 25 people that would join me.

[Viri]

I was living plenty of fists on the -60% damage siege on saturday with about 5k hp left(of my 40k). Was obviously not wearing a combat knife nor GR/DR. Being able to live it is kinda dumb though, pre renewal you pretty much had to be wearing a GR or learn how to hide dodge to live gfist. Don't know why you want it to never kill anyone now.

[Wizard]

As said somewhere before, the magic spells are pretty consistent (no weapon component) in how they are reduced, and by happenstance most people have proper reductive gear for those. I tested on the server that has the most consistent WoE, as well as the most active feedback persons. Tested on Sakray would have been pointless with the 25 people that would join me.

Indeed... spells are the ones who suffer good amount of reductions thanks to our own formula and since we simple have the one element we use in our spells... that's why we somehow have to "guess" the right element to deal a lil bit more damage w/o having the enemy reduce it with their all out gears...

If you planning on increasing our damage, I'm not against it at all =)

I was living plenty of fists on the -60% damage siege on saturday with about 5k hp left(of my 40k). Was obviously not wearing a combat knife nor GR/DR. Being able to live it is kinda dumb though, pre renewal you pretty much had to be wearing a GR or learn how to hide dodge to live gfist. Don't know why you want it to never kill anyone now.

Perhaps because people will complain even more?

[dragoonlordz]

I was living plenty of fists on the -60% damage siege on saturday with about 5k hp left(of my 40k). Was obviously not wearing a combat knife nor GR/DR. Being able to live it is kinda dumb though, pre renewal you pretty much had to be wearing a GR or learn how to hide dodge to live gfist. Don't know why you want it to never kill anyone now.

Because GoH is spammable atm. With Snap and GoH a single Sura can wipe out a good amount of your teammates even if you lived with 5k HP left.

I too lived through GoH and Gfist in the last WoE only I had full health while the Sura died aka Shadow Form. However the ones that think before they act did manage to one shot me many times and was the only class to do so thanks to the reduction of which I greatly approve of.

Even taking that into account, I have more issues with Hell Plant tbh than GoH but thats only due to my class having a counter to GoH if react quick enough however most others do not. Hell Plant on the other hand is spammable in sense can use many and does insane amounts of damage when hit by a few at a time which is possible even when spaced out all around an Emp room a single 150 Bio could wipe out a large party attacking all the way from the safty of the other side of the room. Now I could also learn Hell Plant as I believe it is a skill I can Reproduce though I have never tried but I would not do so because I think it needs a serious look at and the same reason I won't trap someone indefinatly in manholes. There are better ways to do things and other options. Hell Plants are also very hard to see and quite hard to actually even target too.

Edited by dragoonlordz, 15 February 2011 - 06:21 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

I tested on the server that has the most consistent WoE, as well as the most active feedback persons. Tested on Sakray would have been pointless with the 25 people that would join me.

I thought you said Sakray can't be used for testing anymore.

[Maknificent]

That's true... but I wasn't referring to kill low HP classes... I usually aim towards "rider" classes (RK's & RG's) but even with Hibrams shoes and my +10 GSOD, I get at most 70k damage out of TV... kinda below to what I used to get w/o Hibrams and 40% WoE Reduction...

The good side is that we are able to survive more skills now... then again... for some reason it seems that people don't like that much =(

I'm not talking about low HP classes...grant you I'm not 1 shotting Tao RKs/RGs anymore but I'm still 1 shotting 150 suras and genteics...and for those who I'm not 1 shotting my DPS is so high it doesn't matter...I have no delay on CL & JF. I would love to have wizards added more MATK. or not let us suffer from the reduction. Before this reduction, I could 1 shot any class and still skill spam taking out guilds with Hibrams

[Andini]

I was living plenty of fists on the -60% damage siege on saturday with about 5k hp left(of my 40k). Was obviously not wearing a combat knife nor GR/DR. Being able to live it is kinda dumb though, pre renewal you pretty much had to be wearing a GR or learn how to hide dodge to live gfist. Don't know why you want it to never kill anyone now.

you were getting fist by low lvl/bad suras. any 150 sura that is decent (+9 kvm mace/brynn/etc) would do more than 40k easily with gr, and easily more than 70k+ with megs/sleip even if they fisted a gr/ck/dr user

prerenewal, if you wore a ck/dr/gr, a mvp champ with two megs couldnt even kill you. now, with half those gears a sura can easily surpass a 55k char with ck/dr/gr

Edited by Andini, 15 February 2011 - 06:41 PM.

[Viri]

There was a 150 wanderer I had to put on sp mant/headgear on to kill and I have a +9 kvm fist/bryn and a belt. Just saying.

[Andini]

should switch to +9 mace

[Viri]

Obviously, but requiring THREE gears that not every single sura should be carrying around is kinda ridiculous lol. What should an unbelted unbryned sura that didn't abuse the heck out of HD ore supposed to do? In all seriousness.

[Kadnya]

Bring someone to lex, maybe?

[Viri]

Unbelted unbryned, I don't think lex would matter on hard to kill targets. Isn't that what gfist was designed to kill? rofl

[Andini]

Obviously, but requiring THREE gears that not every single sura should be carrying around is kinda ridiculous lol. What should an unbelted unbryned sura that didn't abuse the heck out of HD ore supposed to do? In all seriousness.

play a maestro for that sura that has those items

[Wizard]

I'm not talking about low HP classes...grant you I'm not 1 shotting Tao RKs/RGs anymore but I'm still 1 shotting 150 suras and genteics...and for those who I'm not 1 shotting my DPS is so high it doesn't matter...I have no delay on CL & JF. I would love to have wizards added more MATK. or not let us suffer from the reduction. Before this reduction, I could 1 shot any class and still skill spam taking out guilds with Hibrams

Yeah... but I wasn't talking about a general party but warlock itself... a warlock with maestro is always something to look up =)

Ohh 150 suras and genetics are low HP classes in my book xD (actually any class other than RK's and RG's are low HP classes for me)... just saying...

[Puppet]

I was living plenty of fists on the -60% damage siege on saturday with about 5k hp left(of my 40k). Was obviously not wearing a combat knife nor GR/DR. Being able to live it is kinda dumb though, pre renewal you pretty much had to be wearing a GR or learn how to hide dodge to live gfist. Don't know why you want it to never kill anyone now.

Those be some poorly made Sura's that been smacking you. steve I hope you were laugh hysterically at them for there failness

But ya the woe reduction being universal is stupid, It the Class specific skills that need the balancing, Most of them are all 3rd class skills, with the exception of the few like CS

Edited by Puppet, 15 February 2011 - 08:01 PM.

[dragoonlordz]

Yeah... but I wasn't talking about a general party but warlock itself... a warlock with maestro is always something to look up =)

Ohh 150 suras and genetics are low HP classes in my book xD (actually any class other than RK's and RG's are low HP classes for me)... just saying...

As a Chaser once I decide to push to 150 I should have 45-47k HP which is pretty high to me and thats not even 120 Vit or a Tao card. So I think Chasers can be classed as high HP too. That's assuming the wushuang stat calculator is right on stats calculations.

Edited by dragoonlordz, 15 February 2011 - 08:04 PM.

[Wizard]

I was living plenty of fists on the -60% damage siege on saturday with about 5k hp left(of my 40k). Was obviously not wearing a combat knife nor GR/DR. Being able to live it is kinda dumb though, pre renewal you pretty much had to be wearing a GR or learn how to hide dodge to live gfist. Don't know why you want it to never kill anyone now.

lol... so in this case, TV from Warlock is even more powerful, easy to cast and cheap (no seeds/b.pots) that their Gfist... interesting xD

[Wizard]

As a Chaser once I decide to push to 150 I should have 45-47k HP which is pretty high to me and thats not even 120 Vit or a Tao card. So I think Chasers can be classed as high HP too.

I guess... my line was something like this: low HP <47k, high HP > 47k...

[Myzery]

Indeed... spells are the ones who suffer good amount of reductions thanks to our own formula and since we simple have the one element we use in our spells... that's why we somehow have to "guess" the right element to deal a lil bit more damage w/o having the enemy reduce it with their all out gears...

If you planning on increasing our damage, I'm not against it at all =)



Perhaps because people will complain even more?

Don't listen to him, he constantly brags about being able to 1 shot anyone in WoE with magic.

[Wizard]

Don't listen to him, he constantly brags about being able to 1 shot anyone in WoE with magic.

lol... I speak what I test... that's all...

Meanie =(

Edited by Wizard, 15 February 2011 - 09:25 PM.

[Mischelle]

Unbelted unbryned, I don't think lex would matter on hard to kill targets. Isn't that what gfist was designed to kill? rofl

Yes, it was also designed with the idea that you would have to cast Summon Spirit Sphere Five times, then cast Fury, and finally cast Summon Spirit Sphere Five more times.

The development team decided to deviate from original design once already, so I see no reason why they should feel obligated to not change the effectiveness of the skill again.

[CocaCola]

you were getting fist by low lvl/bad suras. any 150 sura that is decent (+9 kvm mace/brynn/etc) would do more than 40k easily with gr, and easily more than 70k+ with megs/sleip even if they fisted a gr/ck/dr user

prerenewal, if you wore a ck/dr/gr, a mvp champ with two megs couldnt even kill you. now, with half those gears a sura can easily surpass a 55k char with ck/dr/gr

KVM set+cranial valk armor was harder to kill back then.

Not a typo.

Edited by CocaCola, 16 February 2011 - 07:54 AM.

[Jing]

its hard enough that howl works 100% at a time it also takes out your sp. Used a lot of seeds last saturday WoE with opponents using it every 10 seconds

[Andini]

howl is not even near 100% but with a bunch of genetics it prob seems so, a seed is as much or less expensive than a howl pot tho

Edited by Andini, 16 February 2011 - 09:10 AM.