118 replies to this topic

[Gojio]

At the moment, you should know, UWs are a lame, ridiculous waste of time. (Unless you just want points and you don't care about fun, in a game)

People insist saying Champs are OP, I can't find a single reason to claim that. I have a Champ, and lately I'm feeling really "normal". With aspd and mspd nerfed, Champs are finally a balanced class, with AP\Def being their main stats, and normal aspd\mspd. There are hard ones and easy ones of course, but you can't complain about the hard ones being OP, they just have good gear\skills...

Let's get to the point. Mages.

Right now, Mages can count on 2 Debuff skills (one 50% and one 25%), 2 Mute skills (one 10 seconds and the other is like 4-5 seconds I guess, and it's an AoE). I'm not mentioning any stun skills, I have no problems with those, I have 3 stuns myself and the Mages' one are fair in my opinion.

The "issue" comes with the listed skills. Facing a Mage in UW means that twice out of 3 times, you'll end up debuffed, which turns out to kill you. The issue with Mute is minor, it's all about the debuff, let's face it!

I suggest some tweaking to create a "balance" (it would really create a balance for me, idk about you):

1) Anti Magic Shell should be a Cleric only skill, its success rate should be reduced to 25%, and its cooldown reduced to 15 seconds.
2) Soul Doubt success rate should be raised to 100%, effect duration should be reduced to 5 second, and its cooldown should be reduced to 15 seconds.

About 1) the reason is simple: Mages already have a debuff skill, plus they can defend themselves in other ways (stuns, aoes). Clerics, especially FS ones, have no Decloak skills, no Debuff skills, they just have a Mute skill with 90% success rate. They need one more "way" to save themselves from a certain death sometimes.
About 2) well, 10 seconds it's just to long, especially because Mages' skills do great damage and melees too, since they are considered magic attacks and not physical. Soldiers have a 5 seconds Mute, and in my opinion this is a fair one, because it gives the opponent enough time to use his skills again before dying, eventually. Should be the same for the Muses' Mute skill.

Several Mages, while talking to me on my Champ, have told me the same excuse ("We have low def, we die quick"). That's a pathetic excuse, sincerely. You are talking about low def to your easiest target. I can just say "Hey, your attacks are magic, and I have low Magic Defense, what about it?" and the usual response is "It's not the same". Heh...leaves me speechless.

Funniest Mage I've ever met is one who, when the debuff was available for everyone, had a 100% success rate and was able to be used againts allies too, said "Even if it was 10% this debuff is a joke and kills PvP". After the v.331 Patch, when it was changed to Mage only and reduced to 50% he said "I love this patch". Contradiction much.

This is my point of view, and im my opinion the whole PvP aspect would be a lot more enjoyable with these small changes.

Side note: I think the Concussion Grenade should either have its success rate lowered, or its cooldown increased. *waits for Jagz*

My ranting is over. Let the flame war begin.

[jagz]

You dont have to wait long.

Again, G posted a hell of a suggestion in your last nade thread but it was burried under kyoudai rage.

[yamz]

I should disagree with you,


yea mages are cool coz of there Magic attacks but the fact is they really have low def that even a noob scout can just hit and run them. Thats why i barely seen a mage in uw. They are only good in 1v1.

[Phish]

Clerics don't need a complete debuff. Offensive clerics need another skill with a debuff (ie mspeed down or madef down or something). I haven't seen the effects of the anti magic shell because I haven't been playing but it doesn't sound like fun, because it's just an auto win button if it lands.

Edited by Phish, 31 March 2011 - 11:22 AM.

[Gojio]

I should disagree with you,

yea mages are cool coz of there Magic attacks but the fact is they really have low def that even a noob scout can just hit and run them. Thats why i barely seen a mage in uw. They are only good in 1v1.

Several Mages, while talking to me on my Champ, have told me the same excuse ("We have low def, we die quick"). That's a pathetic excuse, sincerely. You are talking about low def to your easiest target. I can just say "Hey, your attacks are magic, and I have low Magic Defense, what about it?" and the usual response is "It's not the same". Heh...leaves me speechless.

Just for the kicks, open your eyes during UW, there are a lot of Mages.

Clerics don't need a complete debuff. Offensive clerics need another skill with a debuff (ie mspeed down or madef down or something). I haven't seen the effects of the anti magic shell because I haven't been playing but it doesn't sound like fun, because it's just an auto win button if it lands.

Exactly.

Edited by Gojio, 31 March 2011 - 11:24 AM.

[iBryan]

You dont have to wait long.

Again, G posted a hell of a suggestion in your last nade thread but it was burried under kyoudai rage.

People like you jagz are the ones who would be on the other side, lets suppose there was two groups. Balancing Or Keep things the same, you would fall in the keep things the same all you care about is how your class is saying grenades aren't OP because bourg lacks skills that doesnt mean that the nade is balanced. Instead of suggesting a better skill tree for bourg you prefer to keep the grenades cause once again all you care is about what class you play, and if youre doing good.

And simply here albe isn't raging its pretty clear that 2 debuffs on a mage is ridicolous, and it could be only a cleric use cause that would be actually more fair. I dont know about the mutes, but 10s mute and then a back up mute is alot, but once again its up to the devs not us. Maybe if you guys would play on the "losing" side sometimes you would understand the concepts but once again you play on the populated side of union wars so you wouldn't know. Unlike you, others try and have fun and try making union war competetive.

2 wrongs doesn't make a right, one class after another will be fixed/nerfed. "Kyoudai rage" bringing the clan on a simple topic isn't helping, maybe its because most of us play each of the classes/ or actually face these problems in union wars or different war times. While you guys just hide behind 300 men fighting,and everything is ok nothings seems to be wrong.

Edited by iBryan, 31 March 2011 - 11:35 AM.

[yamz]

Im in Draconis, most jobs here are champs and scouts.

[Gojio]

Im in Draconis, most jobs here are champs and scouts.

Oh lol, well I'm talking about Leonis

[Phish]

You dont have to wait long.

Again, G posted a hell of a suggestion in your last nade thread but it was burried under kyoudai rage.

And on that note: http://forums.warppo...an-suggestions/

[Soda]

Sorry but Champs for me still needs some tweaking. The M-spd nerf isnt enough. Having Aoes(with damage and debuff in a single skill), Having both Magic and Physical Attacks, Stuns, Mute ._. . Seriously its like everything you can ask for ,for a class to be on top of everyone. (Blah blah mages pwn me) But w/e. We also have to consider the fact that thats why everyone plays champ now (Or mage because of the debuff) because of all the advantage.

Edit: About Mages, Lower the Anti Magic Shell % Since they have 2. Increase their M-spd. Period.

About the soul doubt. Unless they give clerics good enough offensive skills and mages some upgrade (mentioned above) then dont lower it down to 5.

Edited by Soda, 31 March 2011 - 11:38 AM.

[iBryan]

As much trolls as you guys are and dumb useless people on helping balancing game, it seems like you cannot read what's so bad about what he said? main topic he got on to was the 50% debuff so quit talking thrash and start noticing the game you play. Might wanna stop farming/crafting & fighting boring wars and learn about whats going on.

[Gojio]

Sorry but Champs for me still needs some tweaking. The M-spd nerf isnt enough. Having Aoes(with damage and debuff in a single skill), Having both Magic and Physical Attacks, Stuns, Mute ._. . Seriously its like everything you can ask for ,for a class to be on top of everyone. (Blah blah mages pwn me) But w/e. We also have to consider the fact that thats why everyone plays champ now (Or mage because of the debuff) because of all the advantage.

Edit: About Mages, Lower the Anti Magic Shell % Since they have 2. Increase M-spd. Period.

About the soul doubt. Unless they give clerics good enough offensive skills and mages some upgrade (mentioned above) then dont lower it down to 5.

Mages have got AoEs too, and debuffs too (mspd down, burn, def down), they have Stuns, they have a longer Mute, an extra AoE Mute and 2 dispell skills.

[Sathanas]

Mages in union war? Whur? xD

Besides mine and the rest of the guys from 2swords you rarely see mages in union war..and only a few of us have debuff..and even less are willing to use it. Mine is reserved for general screwing around in Tg, or anyone in Clownz clan.

And yes having low def IS a drawback...especially when you run into aforementioned full chiva OP champ with 8k ap and he gets the first stun...you need less def on champs. as it stands mages are the only class that can kill you reliably, and to kill a high refined full chiv champ you have to be a pretty DAM good Player....

and no nades dont need to be nerfed, they are prety much the only thing that keeps borgs away from a very quick death when champs show up. If we cant keep you stunned you simply do too much damage\

But i will agree with you on the percentage, 50% is a bit much even with that LONG cooldown (which really makes me wonder why guys cry about getting debuff spammed with such a long cooldown)..25% tops for Anti magic, or leave it as it is and make it for cleric class...would be a huge help to battle clerics even tho most probably cant even spare the ONE skill point to learn it.

Edited by Sathanas, 31 March 2011 - 11:46 AM.

[SinisterPT]

A debuff skill on a game on which its (super rare not to say almost impossible) to find clerics (ppl that are only playing the cleric and follows you with heals) to party in uw(major pvp event) (like a healer), and a game that has overbuff system (this is relevant) its a way to make ppl dont want to go UWs.
(one thing is u get killed and than u have to rebuff again, other thing is, if your a knowned char every mage will target ur ass, u will get debuffed all the time unless u use IM Boosters. Than the mage scrolls out and u need to be buffing every 2minutes and sometimes even scroll too to get to spwan to get buffs again (cause the cleric only stays in spwan considering the owner is playing in uw with other char).

This is a good way to kill union wars. I have Boosters to waste but i only use them when i feel i need them and i dont want to use 3 boosters of which buff every war just not to get debuffed all the time.

[iBryan]

Mages in union war? Whur? xD

Besides mine and the rest of the guys from 2swords you rarely see mages in union war..and only a few of us have debuff..and even less are willing to use it. Mine is reserved for general screwing around in Tg, or anyone in Clownz clan.

And yes having low def IS a drawback...especially when you run into aforementioned full chiva OP champ with 8k ap and he gets the first stun...you need less def on champs. as it stands mages are the only class that can kill you reliably, and to kill a high refined full chiv champ you have to be a pretty DAM good Player....

and no nades dont need to be nerfed, they are prety much the only thing that keeps borgs away from a very quick death when champs show up. If we cant keep you stunned you simply do too much damage

See idiots like you are the ones who would fall in that category i mentioned why don't you suggest a better boost on bourg's actual skill tree instead of depending on a grenade that not only hits 95-100% but it can hit through mutes. Learn about the game, and yes champion does have pretty much defense ill +1 you on that but if you read this correctly only the 50% debuff was clearly pointed out.

[Sathanas]

See idiots like you are the ones who would fall in that category i mentioned why don't you suggest a better boost on bourg's actual skill tree instead of depending on a grenade that not only hits 95-100% but it can hit through mutes. Learn about the game, and yes champion does have pretty much defense ill +1 you on that but if you read this correctly only the 50% debuff was clearly pointed out.

Read my edit

If your going to RAGE rage at the people debuff spamming you, or the devs, lets not resort to insults because you got your buffsets knocked off a few times in unionwar

Kthxbai

and if you payd CAREFUL attention to what i said borgs probably wouldn't need to nade spam if champs Def was nerfed..OMG wow amazing how that works out???

if we were doing reasonable damage to full chiv champs there would be less of a need to keep them stunlocked so less nade whoring and less qqing from guys like you...but like you said i don't know this game so....

Edited by Sathanas, 31 March 2011 - 11:52 AM.

[yamz]

I see now why your complaining about the mages. Maybe because your a champ.

[iBryan]

I see now why your complaining about the mages. Maybe because your a champ.

So you telling me a 50% debuff skill only concerns champs?

Edited by iBryan, 31 March 2011 - 11:50 AM.

[Gojio]

Mages in union war? Whur? xD

Besides mine and the rest of the guys from 2swords you rarely see mages in union war..and only a few of us have debuff..and even less are willing to use it. Mine is reserved for general screwing around in Tg, or anyone in Clownz clan.

And yes having low def IS a drawback...especially when you run into aforementioned full chiva OP champ with 8k ap and he gets the first stun...you need less def on champs. as it stands mages are the only class that can kill you reliably, and to kill a high refined full chiv champ you have to be a pretty DAM good Player....

and no nades dont need to be nerfed, they are prety much the only thing that keeps borgs away from a very quick death when champs show up. If we cant keep you stunned you simply do too much damage

I see at least 8-10 mages every UW, just on FG\RC side. Maybe you don't notice because it's your side, but when you're constantly chased you notice. Most of them have the debuff, and all of those who have it (maybe just except you) use it regularly.

Having low def is not a drawback, we have low mdef, your skills do more damage on me than what mines do on you.
I have high refined Chivas, and trust me when I say a single magic skill does 20-30% damage on me (4-5k damage per skill)

Defense is your weakness and physical attacks inflict you high damage.
Magic defense is my weakness and magic attacks inflict me high damage.

Why should my def be nerfed and your skills not? This is what I call taking sides and being unfair.

[SinisterPT]

Mages in union war? Whur? xD

Besides mine and the rest of the guys from 2swords you rarely see mages in union war..and only a few of us have debuff..and even less are willing to use it. Mine is reserved for general screwing around in Tg, or anyone in Clownz clan.

And yes having low def IS a drawback...especially when you run into aforementioned full chiva OP champ with 8k ap and he gets the first stun...you need less def on champs. as it stands mages are the only class that can kill you reliably, and to kill a high refined full chiv champ you have to be a pretty DAM good Player....

and no nades dont need to be nerfed, they are prety much the only thing that keeps borgs away from a very quick death when champs show up. If we cant keep you stunned you simply do too much damage

I(and any decent knight) kill most of Champs (even the better ones in pvp with no buffs vs a champ with bersek on it).
And some high ref full chiv champs sux cause they dont know how to play, i have seen some champs with (10)'s WAY BETTER than some with 15's.
For me mages can have 10 stuns, burns, have super high def, massive mov speed, attack speed, all u want as long as i dont get debuffed by them every 2 minutes making me not want to do UW cause 70% of the time i am with a debuff on my ass!
Well if gms make boosters for free i wont mind but i think the anti magic shell is other way to make ppl buy boosters so they can make a few extra bucks (For sure was not a skill to balance the game experience)

Edited by SinisterPT, 31 March 2011 - 11:53 AM.

[jagz]

Bryan, How the hell can you lump me in the "stay the same" group? Besides u roll me 50% to 0 and you know it. Nades and all. lol..... I would def be on the balance side....

Anyways as for you lumping me in the stay the same group, You have to remember I am down for changing grenades completely. It was my idea originally to change the grenades to status effecters. They have to remain useful as macro or not, they are crafted 1 at a time. & Like it or not, Alchemy craft can be done by bourg's. Why not use what you can craft.

[Phish]

I see at least 8-10 mages every UW, just on FG\RC side. Maybe you don't notice because it's your side, but when you're constantly chased you notice. Most of them have the debuff, and all of those who have it (maybe just except you) use it regularly.

Having low def is not a drawback, we have low mdef, your skills do more damage on me than what mines do on you.
I have high refined Chivas, and trust me when I say a single magic skill does 20-30% damage on me (4-5k damage per skill)

Defense is your weakness and physical attacks inflict you high damage.
Magic defense is my weakness and magic attacks inflict me high damage.

Why should my def be nerfed and your skills not? This is what I call taking sides and being unfair.

I don't know if you realized it Albe but compared to mages, every one of a champs stats is equal or greater than a mage except magic defense. (Mages have more mp but that is irrelevant when champs have infinite mp with the champion spirit passive)

[Gojio]

I see now why your complaining about the mages. Maybe because your a champ.

Maybe you should just play Draconis ._.

[Gojio]

I don't know if you realized it Albe but compared to mages, every one of a champs stats is equal or greater than a mage except magic defense. (Mages have more mp but that is irrelevant when champs have infinite mp with the champion spirit passive)

Adam you should know very well those are just numbers. Numbers don't help you in a fight when a mage's skill does 4k damage and mine does 2k, it's not like I think I should win just cause my stats are higher.

[iBryan]

Bryan, How the hell can you lump me in the "stay the same" group? Besides u roll me 50% to 0 and you know it. Nades and all. lol..... I would def be on the balance side....

Anyways as for you lumping me in the stay the same group, You have to remember I am down for changing grenades completely. It was my idea originally to change the grenades to status effecters. They have to remain useful as macro or not, they are crafted 1 at a time. & Like it or not, Alchemy craft can be done by bourg's. Why not use what you can craft.

I don't mind that jagz, but the thing that gets me wondering is why haven't you come up with a thread or a way to get bourg's skill tree better instead of depending on a nade? Thing that caught me the most was "kyoudai rage" sounds pretty dumb, most of the people who probably have even come up with decent or a balancing idea with facts and many details supporting it has come from kyoudai i guess so i understand you.

Bourg and Scout are prob the most balanced/underpowered classes so i know what you mean, but that's me saying oh lets have 3 stuns on scout or skills that can penetrate mutes because thats the only thing that keeps me alive, why not suggest something for the bourg skills cause none of you guys do that, you complain about bourg's being underpowered but why haven't you come up with some ideas?

Edited by iBryan, 31 March 2011 - 11:57 AM.