32 replies to this topic

[Yurai]

Taken from the other thread:

So Hastur, are there any plans to fix the issue where people are able to change island while in the middle of a lock? I think that characters should not be allowed to change islands unless they are in a normal standing state for at least 2 seconds with no movement disability debuffs (such as stun, freeze, sleep, and frog). Also, do something about the missions that require you to have the attack turn when you don't have the attack turn. The rest of the missions are fine as long as the island hopping issue is resolved.

I actually liked the old version of ew, one large area with two sub cores and a main core, better. I'm curious as to why it was changed. Imo, missions should not be the key to winning EW, as they are now.

Changes I would love to see:

1) Reverting back to the old EW battleground. You can't island hop there, and the map is more interesting (ladders, gaps, etc).
2) Keep some missions; however, make it so that every player of the same class has the same mission (server side/time dependent) and points are not awarded until the 3 minute timer on the mission expires.
3) Eliminate the mission to attack the core. Eliminate missions that involve killing a member of a certain class to prevent potential advantages obtained by limiting classes able to participate.
4) Reduce the amount of points/bar progress awarded for completing a mission.
5) Increase the amount of points/bar progress awarded for killing a player.
6) Award a very small amount of points/bar progress for every hit that a player does to an enemy. This is to encourage players to actively seek out combat.
7) Get rid of the mercenary system. It is far too open to abuse, and a guild war should be for guild members.
8) Make it so that players cannot enter ew after it has started.
9) Allowing shadow walk and burrow, since they are now on a timer (What is the point in these skills?)

Agreed with this section, except perhaps not so much towards number 6. It causes an imbalance for fast skill spamming classes such as archers as opposed to classes with longer cooldowns and not as many multiple hit, fast processing skills. In addition, if the old EW system would still be possible to adopt, the cores need a lot more HP since our weapons have improved substantially since back then. The changes to the emporia dragons in dragon defense is a step in the correct direction (by eliminating the use of skills such as disease on it), but it is still nearly impossible to successfully defend a castle. With the current emporia system, the main thing that I feel needs revamping is the entire missions and island hopping system.

If the system stays the way it currently is, or we do not come to an agreement and create some sort of community enforced rule set, EW is likely to become/remain a rather sketchy tournament (There was a lot of drama revolving around this tournament on THQ.). A small amount of players using functions in the current system, to their advantage, seems to have caused a bit of an issue for some others. In regards to this tournament, I expect more drama and issues to ensue if we do not elect to handle things in a mature manner. Considering that ownership of the EW castle provides substantial rewards that can save cash spenders a good deal of money in this game, and it is a sufficient reward to tempt players to resort to what some others might consider unsportsmanlike play, it seems pertinent that a general consensus is met, concerning what is allowed in ew. In meeting that consensus, let us please treat each other with respect.

That being said, I am personally more than happy to discuss the EW tournament, but the way that this topic was brought up made it seem more like obnoxious trolling than bringing up a subject for debate. I will not read intentional gibberish or force myself to look at an image that appears as if it could induce seizures, in an epileptic, just to read a forum post because someone wishes to be obnoxious. If you guys want to talk about ew, let's directly bring up some issues, potential issues, and topics of discussion.

- Using the mercenary system to afk on teams and give others the advantage
- Using mercenary system or creating multiple guilds to gain advantage in ew tournament
- Should mercenaries be allowed at all? Should players be able to play for guilds besides their primary one?
- Methods of avoiding deaths (island switching, logging out).
- Imbalance of player equips (heavy cash spenders)
- Alliances and castle hogging (certain players getting more and more stacked thanks to castle)
- Limiting classes to gain advantage
- Limiting number of players to gain advantage
- Item Spam
- Potential player agreed upon EW rules
- How to enforce player agreed upon rules
- etc

As for item spamming, they should just remove the new npc bought consumables. I don't think imbalance of player equips is really something that can be changed, or there would be no point for people to even play competitively.

To recap the important points:

• Increase the amount of points gained per kill
• Decrease the amount of points gained per mission
• Prevent people from switching islands while they're getting attacked or are stunned/frozen/sleeping/frog/etc.
• Give missions that are actually possible to complete so that people don't have to relog and get a new mission
• Consider the removal of the mercenary system

Edited by Yurai, 10 April 2011 - 10:18 AM.

[Kazra]

Current EW lets you play an undergeared + underleveled character and still get very high on the rankings. Honestly means nothing to have good gear in the current EW.

[fyerolight]

Current EW lets you play an undergeared + underleveled character and still get very high on the rankings. Honestly means nothing to have good gear in the current EW.

Well, the game is Free to play and basically with the current situation that we cant trade IM Consumables it is hard to for people who don't buy cash to get good gear. Emporia is for all guilds, not necessarily high-leveled + undergeared characters. In my opinion the new system makes it more balanced between the under geared, regular geared, and over geared guilds/people. I do agree that some changes need to be done though.

[Kazra]

I think this shows how bad it is. Fair with his +20 and stuff. Me with my... +0 59 weapon? Also I got hit about..... three times in that whole EW. That means I still could have done just as well with store bought gear and a level 1 weapon. Didn't start swapping/relogging until EW was halfway over too.

If you think relogging and island swapping to avoid deaths is more balanced, then sure I guess. :/

[fyerolight]

I said somethings needed to be changed, and if you use the old system, no way in heck that any of the lower level guilds could survive. I think the logging should be change, not really sure on the island swapping because there is still a chance you change to an island full of people ready to kill you :s.

[Yurai]

Well, the game is Free to play and basically with the current situation that we cant trade IM Consumables it is hard to for people who don't buy cash to get good gear. Emporia is for all guilds, not necessarily high-leveled + undergeared characters. In my opinion the new system makes it more balanced between the under geared, regular geared, and over geared guilds/people. I do agree that some changes need to be done though.

No, it doesn't. You still won't be able to destroy the core even if you get the attack turn multiple times if you're undergeared. The new system places too much emphasis on luck of getting easy missions and cheap tactics such as island hopping.

I said somethings needed to be changed, and if you use the old system, no way in heck that any of the lower level guilds could survive. I think the logging should be change, not really sure on the island swapping because there is still a chance you change to an island full of people ready to kill you :s.

Island swapping is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. What's the purpose of getting missions that require you to kill people if you can just swap out whenever you get caught? Unless you have absolutely terrible luck, there is no possible way to swap continuously until you die when you're at near full HP. There is no possible way for any of the lower level guilds to survive in the first place. Even with the current system, it's not a challenge to crush them if your guild is stacked.

Edited by Yurai, 10 April 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[Kazra]

I said somethings needed to be changed, and if you use the old system, no way in heck that any of the lower level guilds could survive. I think the logging should be change, not really sure on the island swapping because there is still a chance you change to an island full of people ready to kill you :s.

If you look at any other MMORPG, guild wars are usually based off equips, strategy, and ...control of character? Right now it's based off luck, computer speed, and how fast you can read and press esc and tab. Currently small guilds have an advantage over bigger guilds in the current system because you can just complete the mission and log out/swap islands before the other guild gets a chance to complete their missions. Also I fail to see how there's a chance you'll swap to an island full of people when you can see how many people are on each island before you swap.

No, it doesn't. You still won't be able to destroy the core even if you get the attack turn multiple times if you're undergeared. The new system places too much emphasis on luck of getting easy missions and cheap tactics such as island hopping.

You don't need to destroy the core. Small guild gets attack turn, hits core to 99%, then continues their mission completes for the rest of the 30 minute EW.

Edited by Kazra, 10 April 2011 - 12:13 PM.

[Xyltch]

The current EW system lets undergeared and underleveled players actually have a chance, but at the same time makes the highly-geared and max-level characters not matter as much. Why +20 and legend all your stuff when you can do just as good with advanced +4 stuff?

• Increase the amount of points gained per kill(Sure, makes sense. This is PvP after all.)
• Decrease the amount of points gained per mission(oh for sure)
• Prevent people from switching islands while they're getting attacked or are stunned/frozen/sleeping/frog/etc.(Definately)
• Give missions that are actually possible to complete so that people don't have to relog and get a new mission(YES!)
• Consider the removal of the mercenary system(FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD, A MILLION TIMES YES!)

With all respect to Mooncakes, I feel like the last fight wasn't against them, It was against Ascension. The Merc system blurs the lines of guilds too much and could make it pretty much everyone against one guild. Also, Being able to island hop and rely on mission to attack the core virtually eliminates the pvp element. Sure you're fighting another guild, but they could very well be replaced with monsters and it'd pretty much be the same thing.

[yartrebo]

Perhaps island changing should be like the entering PVP dialogue. For 5 seconds, you can't move or get hit, or else the island change is cancelled. I think that would prevent the abuse, while still allowing legit use (like getting out of an empty island where there's nothing to do).

[Trivle]

Well i think the Mercenary system is kind of a good idea for it. The system allows weaker guilds to have some sort of chance against bigger guilds. Just look at Mooncakes they got second and mostly because of the Mercs.

[MicoJive]

Well i think the Mercenary system is kind of a good idea for it. The system allows weaker guilds to have some sort of chance against bigger guilds. Just look at Mooncakes they got second and mostly because of the Mercs.

...that really shows there guild deserved it if they relied mostly on the mercs.

[Yurai]

How about some feedback from the CM's?

[Rimmy]

To recap the important points:

• Increase the amount of points gained per kill
• Decrease the amount of points gained per mission
• Prevent people from switching islands while they're getting attacked or are stunned/frozen/sleeping/frog/etc.
• Give missions that are actually possible to complete so that people don't have to relog and get a new mission
• Consider the removal of the mercenary system

Personally, I feel that the first 2 (increasing kill points and decreasing mission points) are unnecessary if you address the second 2 issues (island-hopping and relogging) properly.

I actually prefer the way that missions grant more points than kills, b/c it gives all guild members a chance to participate, even if they don't have epic gear. Having said that, I think there should be a much greater variety of missions, and that the missions which are circumstantial (like attacking the core 3 times) should be eliminated or set to come up only when it's appropriate.

[Yurai]

Instead of simply moving the thread, could one of the CM's give a statement regarding this?

[Nolanvoid]

From my own opinion on Emporia Wars, it should be more centered around guild versus guild combat. Fighting and teamwork is found in most guild vs. guild systems. Though, the settings were likely changed for a reason from the previous version. This is merely the first run at it, so we'll have to see how it goes from here.

[Yurai]

From my own opinion on Emporia Wars, it should be more centered around guild versus guild combat. Fighting and teamwork is found in most guild vs. guild systems. Though, the settings were likely changed for a reason from the previous version. This is merely the first run at it, so we'll have to see how it goes from here.

I wouldn't pass it off as merely a first run, as other versions have had the same system for quite a while now, and nothing has been changed or addressed. Currently, as it is, the Emporia is a battle of cheap tactics rather than a battle of teamwork. The IAH players have already coined a term for the constant relogging to obtain a new mission, "fighting the silent war". In our version, we are able to obtain much higher amounts of defense, so island swapping makes it impossible to kill people. The ridiculous amounts of impossible missions is quite high and that's the main thing setting this new system back. It's already obvious that it's been an issue for too long. Would you like our guild to demonstrate how to win an emporia match with only 2 members by taking advantage of the various problems with this new system? If we continuously fight like this, would it provide some incentive to change the system? Or can we wait and play normally with the current system and obtain a solution to the broken Emporia system in the very near future, perhaps within a month?

The problem with playing normally is that individual members in each guild may resort to these methods, despite having reached a general agreement to play fair. The first instance of such "abuse" would motivate the other guild to participate in the same tactics, as seen by the Rebellion vs. Soul Emporia match. We, as players, are unable to properly resolve this issue by ourselves. At this point, I am unsure whether or not to play cheap or play fair. Sure, it would be better to play fair, but our guild does aim to be at the top, and I certainly wouldn't mind playing dirty if the other guild does the same. I wouldn't let go of victory by playing fair just so some undeserving guild who plays dirty can obtain 2 star castle.

The community has already addressed these issues in passing when we first got Emporia in our version, but it seems like the complaints fell on deaf ears. I'm hoping that something can actually be done this time around (and no, the solution is not to remove Emporia again until issues get fixed).

Edited by Yurai, 11 April 2011 - 01:30 PM.

[Maronu]

To recap the important points:

• Increase the amount of points gained per kill
• Decrease the amount of points gained per mission
• Prevent people from switching islands while they're getting attacked or are stunned/frozen/sleeping/frog/etc.
• Give missions that are actually possible to complete so that people don't have to relog and get a new mission
• Consider the removal of the mercenary system

- Preventing players from joining EW after it has started
- Possibly synchronizing the missions

It's already obvious that it's been an issue for too long. Would you like our guild to demonstrate how to win an emporia match with only 2 members by taking advantage of the various problems with this new system? If we continuously fight like this, would it provide some incentive to change the system? Or can we wait and play normally with the current system and obtain a solution to the broken Emporia system in the very near future, perhaps within a month?

This is very true. Rebellion was able to get the first 5 attack turns with just 5 players hunting missions, and imo, most of the players did not even do a very effective job, and the effort was not very organized. That being said, this type of thing was bound to happen sooner or later, in fact it seems like it has been going on, and I am glad that it is being addressed now. We need to be well aware that this is just a sample of what is coming if things are not changed. In the future, we will likely have teams of two stacked evade players (high 300s) entering ew and racing to complete their missions first. Hasn't Yurai already won EW matches, by himself, playing for MoonCakes? Imo, that is not what EW is about. It should be a tournament where everyone is encouraged to participate.

Personally, I feel that the system itself needs to be changed. It is difficult to create rules for EW, as a community, when the tournament offers substantial rewards for winning.

[GrapefruitGod]

So what happens if someone dcs from EW?

Darn can't get back in

[ImDiene]

I LIKE THE MAKE IT LIKE ENTERING PVP IDEA

Kills should be worth more than missions just because they're kills!! IT'S PVP!!!!!!!!

[Maronu]

So what happens if someone dcs from EW?

Darn can't get back in

If you frequently DC within a 30 minute time span, that's your own problem. I fail to see how being penalized for a random DC is any sort of a major draw back when compared to the benefits of this change. Of course, as I stated, synchronizing the missions is always an alternative possibility, but it would probably be a more difficult solution to implement.

[ImDiene]

LAG --> GAME CRASHES

[Meganekko]

imagine a lag spike that d/ced half of DS (which has happened numerous times before) AUTO WIN EW NP

[Yurai]

If you frequently DC within a 30 minute time span, that's your own problem. I fail to see how being penalized for a random DC is any sort of a major draw back when compared to the benefits of this change. Of course, as I stated, synchronizing the missions is always an alternative possibility, but it would probably be a more difficult solution to implement.

It doesn't necessarily have to be frequent. I don't think going back in is a real problem if they just make it so that there's a cooldown of perhaps 5 or 6 minutes before you can reenter (counted from when you enter emporia).

[Maronu]

It doesn't necessarily have to be frequent. I don't think going back in is a real problem if they just make it so that there's a cooldown of perhaps 5 or 6 minutes before you can reenter (counted from when you enter emporia).

How about counted from when you log on? Anyway, 6 minutes sounds good (double the time it takes to get a new mission if you don't log out).

[iceranger]

I LIKE THE MAKE IT LIKE ENTERING PVP IDEA

Kills should be worth more than missions just because they're kills!! IT'S PVP!!!!!!!!

When your fighting a guild like yours "kills" is not a option

From my own opinion on Emporia Wars, it should be more centered around guild versus guild combat. Fighting and teamwork is found in most guild vs. guild systems.

With that piece of information I think there should be a minim of at least 10 people per side not included mercenaries. This isn't Sparta... Also the dragon and cores need to get buffed or should get buffed to somewhat match the teams.

Edited by iceranger, 28 April 2011 - 01:35 PM.