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Medusa/Harpy Party mentality.


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#1 catstyle

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:33 AM

So, as always the most loved ones are priest and all above its glory, like always.
Its not rare to find most non-epic aoe classes sitting in the entraces and asking for groups.
Farming what they can get in reach inside the safet near the quest-npc.

Trying to invite a few of them to a party without a healer usually ends up with.
"Nah, ima sit around here until a Gwingparty/some superepic group picks me"


;o
Just a friendly hint, make a party with all the other lonely bastards and sit at start and farm, if you guys are within eachothers screens.
Id say you probably get 2-3 turnins before your perfect party arrives, and I dont think they are to sad if you leave without telling.
Everyone benefits on it, only issue that can occur is someone just afk-slacks the whole time (can be booted right?) or someone miss out a good group because they were to slow to leave party.

Dont be afraid to hang around in a noob-party at entrance, id say your killcounts will go up by easily 200% ;D
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#2 BlackPotato

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:01 AM

1. Most classes that benefit from the turn-ins are useless for AoE killing there either due to damage or DPS
2. Killing things one by one at the entrance takes little to no effort while waiting for a party
3. Trying to make any kc party without a priest is stupid unless you feel like potting the whole time
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#3 MrBudd

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:20 AM

when did harpies and medusas become so hard that you NEEDED a priest and super epic gwing party? Do people NEVER pot when they play this game? Waiting hours on end to get into a high efficiency multi turn in per hebm gwing party for a short period of time is just stupid. Unless you are a 100% support build character with no killing capabilities there is no reason why you can't just go in and kill things without a huge party.
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#4 GuardianTK

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:24 AM

Learn how to pull. I've tried to solo there and these pullers who are dragging a mob back to their camp fail so bad. You're supposed to hit a monster once before pulling it back. >.> Or else it's gonna redirect onto someone else who happens to pass by you(Me trying to solo by walking around). They call it KSing, I call it self-defense. I'm not gonna stand by and watch myself or my alt die from a puller's incompetence. In the end though, if I happen to destroy a party's huge pull I tend to drag an equivalent amount to said party later on to make it up to them.


Proper etiquette: Wait for everyone else before you turn-in if you're in a gwing party. If you can't synchronize with my gwing party's turn-in's, you're gonna get kicked out if I find you trying to FWing back to the NPC before everyone else has a turn-in.
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#5 catstyle

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 08:29 AM

1. Most classes that benefit from the turn-ins are useless for AoE killing there either due to damage or DPS
2. Killing things one by one at the entrance takes little to no effort while waiting for a party
3. Trying to make any kc party without a priest is stupid unless you feel like potting the whole time


Potting?
Either I typed it wrong, or you missunderstood me. :)
I do enjoy the idea of just sitting in a "entrance party" while waiting for something else, it sure takes little to no effort, and in a group it goes loads faster (atleast at medusa spawn since they have a knitch to spawn up there) instead of having 3-4 guys using no effort to kill 1 each every 20 seconds, they can just get 4 killcounts at the same time.
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#6 iCare

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 08:49 AM

Careless... Unbound do gwing parties all the time. Gwing -> Kill -> Gwing -> Kill -> Turn in => LVL 120 Char.
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#7 Cryslia

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 11:16 AM

actually the rudest parties at medusa mainly just aoe on top of anywhere they land does not matter you're at your party with a mob, soloing, or have only 1 damn monster THAT is pure ksing I didn't include landing on a pulled mob since people still argue if that is mob training or not
Ive mainly seen a level 150 varetyr spear from a sorcerer I havent caught the name on screen shots YET Anyways
they should add a skill cool down of 1 sec to (Attack)skills to bypass the no detect that winging causes otherwise g wing parties CAN and WILL continue to be the ultimate KS,using g wings to find a new spot or to just collect stray party members is fine but winging just to get faster counts at expense of other players isn't cool and has always been a problem since these kill counts stated even since titans first started way back.
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#8 Anko

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:19 AM

The map just right of the ti has plenty of harpies if you want to avoid other parties/ksers. A great way is to just use a throw kunai ninja to leech yourself the counts - they can one shot and flee/dodge harpies. Just some occassional fresh fish pottage and you can start and stop as you wish.
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#9 Kadnya

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:41 AM

I don't know how can people solo those turn ins. In my personal experience leveling a battle HP around, I had to constantly pneuma everytime I was tanking a small mob while killing if someone walked by, because the party would just spam their AoE skills. Even after pneuma, some RKs would still spam dragon breath while I killed the mob, hopping that maybe I left pneuma drop and they could KS me ^^;.


Proper etiquette: Wait for everyone else before you turn-in if you're in a gwing party. If you can't synchronize with my gwing party's turn-in's, you're gonna get kicked out if I find you trying to FWing back to the NPC before everyone else has a turn-in.


This needs more stressing. If you leave in the middle of the party killcount, you will lose some of your party kills, then will have to turn in alone once again, then lose more turn ins, etc... until sometime later, you sincronyze with the party due to how many kills you lost. The result for you is the same as just waitting for the party to finish the first time, but the result for the party is that half the time you are not there, and because less people are actively helping, everyone goes slower. Syncronized turn ins for Gwinging parties is a must if you want to be as effective as possible.

Edited by Kadnya, 24 April 2011 - 06:47 AM.

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#10 KingOfBabylon

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:36 AM

Often I see non trans and some of the trans classes just sitting at the entrance for ages with a chat open looking for party. One can have a successful party while still giving one or two spots to someone who can't really mob or kill as good as their evolved counterparts
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#11 Renaldoo

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:14 AM

Learn how to pull. I've tried to solo there and these pullers who are dragging a mob back to their camp fail so bad. You're supposed to hit a monster once before pulling it back. >.> Or else it's gonna redirect onto someone else who happens to pass by you(Me trying to solo by walking around). They call it KSing, I call it self-defense. I'm not gonna stand by and watch myself or my alt die from a puller's incompetence. In the end though, if I happen to destroy a party's huge pull I tend to drag an equivalent amount to said party later on to make it up to them.


I had a pretty good system between myself and some of the other big pullers on Chaos back in the day in regards to pulling/party etiquette, since we'd run into each other a lot:

1: Don't walk through another party. If you come across a party who is currently dealing with a mob, walk around/go another direction. On tight maps like Medusas/NI3/etc, stop, wait, let them finish and cross the intersection, then get up and continue.

2: If another puller/party is pulling, and you cross paths with them, sit and wait until they cross, then carry on. Sitting is especially important, because it lets the puller know you're trying to stay out of the way. On some maps it's a tight squeeze, so hugging the wall and sitting shows you're trying to stay out of the way and not take the mobs as he crosses.

3: If you're pulling, don't pull across another party/player. Even if you've got aggro, AoE effects and things can hit them. If #3 and #2 collide, either wait and eat the damage until the other party crosses or finish off your mob.

Many times in harpies and medusas lately, I'll be pulling a mob and a big disorganized party tries to walk across me, or sometimes right through my mob. Annoying and rude, but I sit and eat the damage til' they cross, so I don't drag any on them and they don't drag any off of me. Lately at medusas though, each time I do this a certain Wanderer from a certain group keeps coming up and Rainstorming my mob-- the whole time I'm doing my damnedest to be polite towards them.

Proper etiquette: Wait for everyone else before you turn-in if you're in a gwing party. If you can't synchronize with my gwing party's turn-in's, you're gonna get kicked out if I find you trying to FWing back to the NPC before everyone else has a turn-in.


This is extremely aggravating. I've done trios/quartets where we'll all start around the same time, and some of us will be at 188 or 193, and someone hits 200 and says "TI" and wings away. 12 more kills man, that's one mob! Is it really that urgent? That messes everything back up because he'll turn in, the rest of us finish up and TI, and he'll be like "Where are you guys?" And start killing more. Takes about 5 minutes to recalibrate, when 5 minutes is about all it takes to get a full turn-in.

Edited by Renaldoo, 24 April 2011 - 11:17 AM.

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#12 AtlasThunderbeef

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:36 AM

I started out testing out a DB build at level 110, in a party and that worked great. The party had pullers that tried to time pulls and match so everyone would synchronize and get kills.
I would then stand in the middle and one-shot DB everything as fast as I could.

Then after a little while someone got de-synched and started winging. Very uncool.


But after I was done with that party I joined another one, not as great. It ended with me winging away as I wanted to and instead of pulling mobs I would do this:


Pop Small Life Potion + Medium Life Potion. That meant no potting for me.

Grab a bunch of strawberries or light blue pots from Kafra shop. Would be the same as in any party.

Pop a health potion for a little extra health, just to be sure to kill everything.

Teleport around, find a mob; DB while medium+small life potions heal me so I have roughly 75% hp after killing.

Teleport again, while I got a new mob I would have 100% hp and could continue.


For an AOE killer this was faster, more affordable, less organizing(syncing turn-ins) and easier.

I spent the same amount of strawberries, less amount of pots or healing items as I would in a party as the priest might not always heal and I'd use a medium life potion anways.
And I did everything faster because I didn't have to have to pull and run around taking hits, dragging monsters to a party that has stood still for 1 hour.


At best I managed 4 turn-ins per he bm, at level 110.



ATM, if you're an AOE killer, stack up on some pots and sp items, maybe team up with a priest and go kill with wings or teleport.

Sounds really douchy, but when you think about it; AOE killers need to spend a few zenies on pots and sp items maybe, just to keep up with their party.
The rest of the party won't pay the others anything.


If you want a good party with no major pot setup, except emergency "My-party-is-being-overrun-everybody-is-dying" pots and sp items;
Grab a few healers
Two sorcerers or scholars
Three-ish pullers or more
Three-ish AOE killers

Have the killers be Soul Exhaled often, and keep magni on.

There's a lot of -_-ty partying going on, tbh. I found soloing much better.
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#13 Viri

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:38 AM

I was randomly helping some nooblets at harpies. Started out with 2-3 I had to babysit and kill mobs as they came but after a while it was a capable 11 man party that'd roam around and kill smaller mobs and i'd snap about 5 screens out and drag that portion of the map back to the party, rampage and continue. It was really efficient for no gwinging.
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#14 GuardianTK

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:51 PM

I had a pretty good system between myself and some of the other big pullers on Chaos back in the day in regards to pulling/party etiquette, since we'd run into each other a lot:

1: Don't walk through another party. If you come across a party who is currently dealing with a mob, walk around/go another direction. On tight maps like Medusas/NI3/etc, stop, wait, let them finish and cross the intersection, then get up and continue.

2: If another puller/party is pulling, and you cross paths with them, sit and wait until they cross, then carry on. Sitting is especially important, because it lets the puller know you're trying to stay out of the way. On some maps it's a tight squeeze, so hugging the wall and sitting shows you're trying to stay out of the way and not take the mobs as he crosses.

3: If you're pulling, don't pull across another party/player. Even if you've got aggro, AoE effects and things can hit them. If #3 and #2 collide, either wait and eat the damage until the other party crosses or finish off your mob.

Many times in harpies and medusas lately, I'll be pulling a mob and a big disorganized party tries to walk across me, or sometimes right through my mob. Annoying and rude, but I sit and eat the damage til' they cross, so I don't drag any on them and they don't drag any off of me. Lately at medusas though, each time I do this a certain Wanderer from a certain group keeps coming up and Rainstorming my mob-- the whole time I'm doing my damnedest to be polite towards them.



This is extremely aggravating. I've done trios/quartets where we'll all start around the same time, and some of us will be at 188 or 193, and someone hits 200 and says "TI" and wings away. 12 more kills man, that's one mob! Is it really that urgent? That messes everything back up because he'll turn in, the rest of us finish up and TI, and he'll be like "Where are you guys?" And start killing more. Takes about 5 minutes to recalibrate, when 5 minutes is about all it takes to get a full turn-in.

That's the point though. I can't simply sit there and wait for said puller to pass by me with their mob, because they didn't default their mob's aggro yet. So if they tried walking past me while I'm to wait for them to get by, their mob basically turns around as they're walking away right onto my alt or party member. That alone gives me the right to defend myself the moment I realize someone from my party is getting hit, because the puller didn't take the time to hit a monster they're trying to pull at least once.
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#15 Renaldoo

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:45 PM

That's the point though. I can't simply sit there and wait for said puller to pass by me with their mob, because they didn't default their mob's aggro yet. So if they tried walking past me while I'm to wait for them to get by, their mob basically turns around as they're walking away right onto my alt or party member. That alone gives me the right to defend myself the moment I realize someone from my party is getting hit, because the puller didn't take the time to hit a monster they're trying to pull at least once.


Right. If they didn't take the measures to keep their mobs on them and not on you, that's pretty well their own fault.
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#16 KingOfBabylon

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:36 PM

There's some people down there who will stand in front of mobbers, clear what their intentions are: Either you kill the mob away from your group, teleport away, give up and let him have the mob, have some of your party come to you, or die.
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#17 Hrothmund

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 01:22 AM

lol they make a turn-in that practically anything with an aoe can one-shot, that only requires 2-3 party members to be effective and people are still rejected for not being useful enough. kinda sad reflection on the population.
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#18 iMNinjaH

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:16 AM

its a hard life in turn in. if you are strong and have good skill, aoe, u get picked by a good party, usually will be gwing party. for the rest that aren't so lucky, they can either camp or move slowly.
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#19 IronFist

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:52 AM

:) partys!! get a char who can AOE kill and flywing around :D 2-6min turn in, its the only way to level
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#20 sukidayo

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 05:06 AM

partying at turnins is actually very very EASY. you only need to do two things: 1) create your own party 2) invite (random) people.

i went at harpies with a super novice, and made a good party in a few seconds. the super novice died a lot (never killed a single harpy too) but i never got complaints even from the priests. hell, it even became a gwing party when i asked if anyone can give me gwings and someone did. then went to medusa, again i had a full party in no time. even invited a 150 and his 3 goddamn alts. it wasnt worth it since novice gets one shotted and i feel sorry for priests wasting gems on me. you wont always get a perfect party, there will be leavers, but a crap party with occasional kills is always better than waiting.
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#21 olbaid

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:16 AM

Ever try to keep everyone buffed in a 12 person party as a priest/high priest? Not so fun. Wearing a fantastic wig or pecopeco hairband to give auto-agi will increase your chances of being in a party. Most parties will have one/two dedicated killers and everyone just follows along for turn in credit.
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#22 DLDragon

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:44 AM

It's like these big parties just make people lose all decency. I've had my kills stolen way to many times while hunting harpies.
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#23 Anko

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:38 PM

Ever try to keep everyone buffed in a 12 person party as a priest/high priest? Not so fun. Wearing a fantastic wig or pecopeco hairband to give auto-agi will increase your chances of being in a party. Most parties will have one/two dedicated killers and everyone just follows along for turn in credit.

Exactly. If you are a freeloader in a party with a killer that can rape everything then just keep up with the killer so you at least do not slow them down - if they are making big mobs don't fall behind just to kill 1-2 medusas. I've been a freeloader before and as long as you don't slow the party down you will get thrown an invite sometimes.

If not, make your own party and you can be whatever class you want.

I do agree that KSing is rife since gms don't actually police ti events so basically it encourages ppl to KS and counter KS without fear of consequence.
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