66 replies to this topic

[igozuvi]

Yeah, it did, and I'm not a fan. F7 is tower defense and you can pretty much afk in it. It takes all the feeling of accomplishment out of leveling, imo, and it really detracts from the overall game. New players get the notion that they can easily catch up to the vets by just mindlessly f7, without any sort of plan, and they end up being level 70 without knowing how to play their characters or even having a reasonable amount of gold (hence I posted the meme). It's nice for making alts, but it really does shorten the game.

But honestly I don't think it shortens the game at all...not if you don't want it to. People are always free to opt out of leveling via F7 as the previous ways of leveling still exist, and personally I don't think that the time spent on leveling your character is absolutely reflective on how well you play your character. Some people can pick it up easily, some people can play it for months and still be a super baddie (like me).

On the other hand though, I definitely am not that competitive in terms of games like these so it doesn't really bother me too much that there are easy ways to level. I think as long as the person is enjoying the game, then the game is doing its job. :x

I do like F7 though, I love tower defense kinda stuff

[Kazu731]

But honestly I don't think it shortens the game at all...not if you don't want it to. People are always free to opt out of leveling via F7 as the previous ways of leveling still exist, and personally I don't think that the time spent on leveling your character is absolutely reflective on how well you play your character. Some people can pick it up easily, some people can play it for months and still be a super baddie (like me).

On the other hand though, I definitely am not that competitive in terms of games like these so it doesn't really bother me too much that there are easy ways to level. I think as long as the person is enjoying the game, then the game is doing its job. :x

I do like F7 though, I love tower defense kinda stuff

This is my opinion exactly. Being a primarily PvE player it does make me feel a bit like my stuff doesn't apply but there's plenty of uses in dungeons and such. Plus there will be much more stuff to come in the next few years so there's no worry. I love the game and I think F7 is a really cool way to level and not many MMORPGs have such a unique leveling system. Tower defense games are usually silly little flash games on websites and here it is as a serious form of grinding!

[igozuvi]

Tower defense games are usually silly little flash games on websites and here it is as a serious form of grinding!

and with better, more kawaii graphics ^o^

[iKnowMyABCs]

Well personally I'd have to agree with Maronu but that's just me >.>

[GrapefruitGod]

f7 gets more exp than anything else, but it is not "fast" by any means.

[MicoJive]

id still say its fast lol...

[Akihiro]

f7 gets more exp than anything else, but it is not "fast" by any means.

It's pretty damn fast.

[Coolsam]

*backhands sXc*

NEVER EVER, USE THAT RUNESCAPE AD TO NEVER TRUST FRIENDS!! Lol jk.

But you are right.

[Buckcherry]

Sorry if im off topic, but i think this game ve just 1 huge error:
The enchant insurances should be tradeables thats all.

[Maronu]

But honestly I don't think it shortens the game at all...not if you don't want it to. People are always free to opt out of leveling via F7 as the previous ways of leveling still exist, and personally I don't think that the time spent on leveling your character is absolutely reflective on how well you play your character. Some people can pick it up easily, some people can play it for months and still be a super baddie (like me).

On the other hand though, I definitely am not that competitive in terms of games like these so it doesn't really bother me too much that there are easy ways to level. I think as long as the person is enjoying the game, then the game is doing its job. :x

I do like F7 though, I love tower defense kinda stuff

I could use starting equipment only, not job change, not run f7, not drink exp pots, and not allow my character to get leeched if I wanted to drastically prolong the game, but I don't see much of a reason to restrict myself like that in an MMORPG. I probably wouldn't even consider those type of restrictions to be challenging, aside from testing my patience. I mean, if you want to see everything in the game and opt out of f7, that's fine, but there is no progression based reason to explore all of the content, and I feel that is a problem.

Exploring all the content and purposefully leveling slowly is akin to going on a road trip and taking a scenic route, while all your friends ditch you, go to the airport, and fly to your destination in a couple of hours. Sure there is a ton of stuff you could do, but most of the linear progression in the game, moving from one area to the next and leveling, is lost after level 42. Imo, the fast leveling and ease of f7 cheapens the rest of our content and the accomplishment of hitting the cap. You can pretty much use the same strategy for every single f7, and the amount of experience you get per run won't be increased at all for going past elluman. What is the point in having so much content if, for the most part, players aren't encouraged to use it? Of course, I'm not saying that this issue started with f7, but it really does make it more evident. In the past, maps like Elluman, Burlune, and Pythanous were not very popular places to grind f4 because of the lower amounts of experience relative to other f4 missions.

As it relates to the topic, I just really don't think of tower defense as something that should be in an mmorpg, at least as more than a minigame. It's fun at first, but once you figure out the strategies to use, you really don't have to do anything.

What f7 means for players:
- No need to upgrade equipment
- Barely have to attack
- Solo > Partying
- No need to learn combos or avoid attacks
- hit level cap in half the time it used to take
- Towers kill everything while players talk or afk


Tower defense to level in MMO = NO!

It's pretty damn fast.

Way too fast. Hardly any pleasure at all. QQ

Edited by Maronu, 28 April 2011 - 10:22 AM.

[igozuvi]

I could use starting equipment only, not job change, not run f7, not drink exp pots, and not allow my character to get leeched if I wanted to drastically prolong the game, but I don't see much of a reason to restrict myself like that in an MMORPG. I probably wouldn't even consider those type of restrictions to be challenging, aside from testing my patience. I mean, if you want to see everything in the game and opt out of f7, that's fine, but there is no progression based reason to explore all of the content, and I feel that is a problem.

I don't really understand then...I wasn't saying if you don't want to do F7 then your only choice is to poke Woodies until you are level 70. .____.;;; I was saying you can just do Van Cliff or F6 like before the F7 patch came in (and they are absolutely still viable ways to level). Other people who like doing F7 doesn't prevent you yourself from exploring the world, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry if that wasn't clear :x

I'm not saying I'm right / you're wrong, I just think that there are plenty of different types of players in the game and I am absolutely certain you aren't the only one who still likes to level via non-F7 ways. If it's your friends that ditched you I guess I'd understand how you'd be upset about F7 and that kinda sucks

And really, even a mindless grinder like I am gets bored of Rokko; with so many different F7 maps to choose from people will eventually explore the rest of the world to check them out, at their own pace and discretion. And even if they don't want to...who cares about them they are boring

You're right, it is quite silly to make things harder for yourself unnecessarily. But it's also a bit silly to assume everyone who enjoys F7 is ignoring the rest the game has to offer.

Edited by igozuvi, 28 April 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[sXcDennis]

I don't really understand then...I wasn't saying if you don't want to do F7 then your only choice is to poke Woodies until you are level 70. .____.;;; I was saying you can just do Van Cliff or F6 like before the F7 patch came in (and they are absolutely still viable ways to level). Other people who like doing F7 doesn't prevent you yourself from exploring the world, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry if that wasn't clear :x

I'm not saying I'm right / you're wrong, I just think that there are plenty of different types of players in the game and I am absolutely certain you aren't the only one who still likes to level via non-F7 ways. If it's your friends that ditched you I guess I'd understand how you'd be upset about F7 and that kinda sucks

And really, even a mindless grinder like I am gets bored of Rokko; with so many different F7 maps to choose from people will eventually explore the rest of the world to check them out, at their own pace and discretion. And even if they don't want to...who cares about them they are boring

You're right, it is quite silly to make things harder for yourself unnecessarily. But it's also a bit silly to assume everyone who enjoys F7 is ignoring the rest the game has to offer.

In my opinion F7 would of been better if it were one of those weekly events instead. If it were not introduced, then introduced into like one of those events what we gain are the following:

Fast leveling
Good Amount of Weapon Powders/Armor Powders


But this would be a rare occasion instead of just having it a anytime use thing. What would of been better is probably leaving drakos tower- but with Dalies that were like VC back then. I remember having a bit of thrill doing Paris :\(Although the 50 floor was quite annoying).
EDIT:
And as for the rares dropped from F7- well you can get them from F1-4. So they would be actually rare :\

Edited by sXcDennis, 28 April 2011 - 04:20 PM.

[Coolsam]

F7 just allowed people to stay in one spot while working hard. Sorta like AFK-Saga.

But hey if yall wanna explore. Go and do it. I did it and decided to do all my Hero Questing solo. And now I have every F5 completed including all of Buhr Island's. And yes, I even found Burlune which evaded me since THQ'ICE.

When it comes to VC and Drakos however, soloing gets difficult for lower levels unless you have some baker's dozens of cakes/yogurts and great stats. I mean a level 60 can't solo Bone Dragon without being stacked and having cake spam on the ready. And imagine a level 65 (minimum for the Hero quest) trying to solo Paris with regular health potions and mediocre stats.

For farming/questing in areas non-F7 related, you need to depend on friends or guildmates. Or you can make a team in Libra and wait for people who are interested and good enough level.

[Miname]

1.)Does this game feel like an MMORPG anymore?

No, not in the least. It feel more like an interactive online social hangout complete with the cliques, with the added game elements.

2.)What do you enjoy in an mmorpg?

I definitely enjoy community and sense of exploration the most. I don't really even care too much about having the best equips, I prefer more of a challenge. I'm also very cheap. No seriously, I never really see a point in investing in great gear when the next update is just going to break my class even further or change how it's played. Also paying a King's ransom to even come close to being considered 'competitive' is very not cool. I remember when $20 would get you the royal treatment in a FTP game. Especially the ones that market themselves as 'casual'. Paying a hefty amount of real cash for a slim chance of upgrading non-tangeable items just never made too much sense to me. I prefer to spend my entertainment budget on items and that don't rely on server uptime or gambling(when the odds are obviously not in my favor). I'd just as well go out to a movie or do something that gives me real value for my real cash.

Gold-in game currency:
Personally, I believe this was probably the most fun part about Dragon Saga- finding tactics to obtain gold as sufficient as possible. It's not hard obtaining gold, but you need the mentality and knowledge to do it.

This is also one of my favorite things to do in an MMO. Finding crazy ways to make gold. For the short time I played WoW I pretended that I was a blackmarket smuggler bringing in rare goods across factions. Too bad WoW sucks and I quit.

Barunson been killing everything about this game that I found fun and unique when I first started playing including the small things I loved so much. Like love warps, and hoarding collecting cakes and yogurts.

PvE is a joke now and it's blatantly obvious what has been going on.
Barunson want players to level faster and farm mats faster- It means that players will be buying more insurance and such from the item mall to upgrade their grear... at the expense of the the game itself.


It's not all too bad though, I still have a lot of fun running maps and instances with friends and playing Battlesquare with Purge every day.


tldr: Miname idly QQ'ing about problems that someone is surely going to attempt to refuse a couple of posts from now.

Edited by Miname, 29 April 2011 - 12:37 AM.

[Rimmy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gravity Games (Barunson) eventually changes F6 and F7 to require Item Mall items to enter (the text has always been there suggesting this -- they may simply be giving players time to get thoroughly hooked on F7 before this is introduced). Pure speculation, of course.

Personally, I think F7 is an incredibly boring way to level, and it gives you too much EXP. It's all well and good that you can enjoy leveling relatively quickly (relative to the THQ*ICE era, that is), but once you hit the cap it likely won't take long before you're bored with the game -- especially if you're only playing for the PvE. Of course, if you force players to grind for too long to gain a level, you're going to make them bored, too. It's a balancing act and I think F7 tips the scales too far.

I think F7 could be vastly improved if it were reworked so that you pretty much NEED a party of 3 or 4 people to get very far, and so that each team member would have to be actively contributing throughout the experience. For instance, instead of having just one "core," have multiple cores spread around a bigger and more complex playing field, forcing players to work together to formulate a strategy that can enable them to protect all of the cores at the same time. Also, increase the speed at which monsters attack the cores -- while also giving players more types of towers and special powers to play with, so they have a fair shot at fending off these attacks.

Another problem is that there need to be better rewards for completing the higher-level stages, so players will actually WANT to go through to stage 50 (if they can manage it), rather than stopping at 45 or so and leaving to start over again.

As it is now, F7 is just 10 or so levels of mobbing, then 30-35 levels of watching your towers blow stuff up. Rinse, repeat. Boring, IMO.

[Coolsam]

ATM we can only imagine what F8 Competition mode will be like.

My Theory: It's a fun game to compete with others for prizes.

A waiting room will be enter-able to look for fellow competitors. 4 people will then go in the map, and kill monsters and fight bosses as they normally do. But reward given is based off of who did the most. I'm guessing it'll be a way to level and farm while doing a friendly competition at the same time. But if it's gonna be like F1-F4, F6, or F7 is completely debatable.


But F7 gets extremely boring. So what 10 runs can get me 67-68 if soloing or with some people 69-70 helping me out. It isn't really fun. And I seem to disconnect and crash often in F7 which is bugging me alot. I like the idea of tower defense don't get me wrong, but after 7-10 rounds it's just let the tower do the work. Sure there's an attack buff but it's damage improvement compared to the millions of damage the tower does every second will still be the tower doing the work. The way I see it, they should make F7 balance towers and players helping defend the stone. But not like how people seem to just rely on stuns/move-spd reducers/freezes. Keep it to where we don't just stand there and upgrade/buff towers occasionally but make it to where it's a hassle to upgrade towers and to also help them defend by actually attacking.

[igozuvi]

Keep it to where we don't just stand there and upgrade/buff towers occasionally but make it to where it's a hassle to upgrade towers and to also help them defend by actually attacking.

but that's what F6 is :/