45 replies to this topic

[meaning42]

Simple question, hopefully a simple answer, will Nightmare card cancel out both Sleep and Deep Sleep status?

It's pretty damn annoying in PVP when theres someone just Sleeping everyone and some Nuke damage guy kills you whilst you are incapasitated. If I had a Nightmare card that would be pretty neat. >_>

[HasteTheSlowOnes]

No only sleep. Deep sleep is another status.

[Kadnya]

Sleep and Deep sleep are two different status. As far as I know, there are no way of perfectly resisting the third job status, so nupe.

[meaning42]

I thought as much, just wanted to make sure, thanks for the fast replies.

[Fibrizzo]

Freezing Vs Marc Card.

[Hacks]

these third class statuses should have never been implemented, they're just plain retarded and annoying without any way to resist or cure yourself of them. sleep vs deep sleep LOOKS THE SAME TO ME HERP DE DERP. i cannot be frozen yet i can be put into "cold mode", what the hell? burning? lock? what is this i dont even. and on a side note, panacea "cures every abnormal status", or does it?

[meaning42]

The worst status, I think is Oblivion Curse from GX, goddamn, 5min silence?

[Zeca]

stop fighting alone?
pretty much every status can be canceled by either an ab, sura or performer

[Viri]

Deep sleep is wanderer/maestro song in fact! And since their songs dont stack having another one applied to you cancels deep sleep. The other issue with it being a "song" effect is that it can stack before the first instance wore off which means you can have the timer reapplied before the first wears off. It's pretty dumb

[Kadnya]

If there was a way to remove deep sleep (say for example, an archbishop or another support chara skill) and the skill could be resisted in some hard way (like, 120 base agi resists deep sleep, or X rare card or set) so you could actually have a chara dedicated to recover it... then the status might be balanced. Kinda like how prerenewal stun was a strong status, you build your priest to resist it and status recover stunner charas, and then AB was there to make you die from high vit, but also pneuma was there so you didn't die from AB, but then spammable fast gambantein was there to remove pneumas so you had to react fast, and so on...

Renewal kinda lacks that action and reaction mechanics. The new status are totalitary: you are affected by a masquerade, thanks for playing, relog to get another peco. No, you can't resist it, use recovery moves, anything. Oh, you are deep sleeped? Sorry, just walk screens away from your party, and maybe you are the single person not deep sleeping. Then sit there doing nothing with a skill to recover your party/guild. Fun fun...

Edited by Kadnya, 25 April 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[jax5]

I can think of a number of deep sleep counters/possible counters, though perhaps none as ideal as the pre-renewal example of a high vit support priest that casts status recovery on stunned targets.

Counters:
1) A ranger half screen away uses a damaging trap to wake a friendly party from deep sleep.

2) A performer half screen away casts a song buff (e.g. gloomy or harmonize) on a performer that is within the sleeping group. The now awoken performer casts some AoE song buff (like siren's voice). Less ideally, the half-screen performer wakes entire group up themselves (and risks being CC'd themselves).

Possibilities:
1) A deep slept person commands an archer merc to use some damaging trap (like landmine)

2) A persistant performer AoE chorus buff gives time-pulsing song buffs that can over-write deep sleep.

Edited by jax5, 25 April 2011 - 07:21 PM.

[Miii]

I've heard having really high int makes you immune to it, seems it was wrong I think.

[Kadnya]

I can think of a number of deep sleep counters/possible counters, though perhaps none as ideal as the pre-renewal example of a high vit support priest that casts status recovery on stunned targets.

Counters:
1) A ranger half screen away uses a damaging trap to wake a friendly party from deep sleep.

2) A performer half screen away casts a song buff (e.g. gloomy or harmonize) on a performer that is within the sleeping group. The now awoken performer casts some AoE song buff (like siren's voice). Less ideally, the half-screen performer wakes entire group up themselves (and risks being CC'd themselves).

Possibilities:
1) A deep slept person commands an archer merc to use some damaging trap (like landmine)

2) A persistant performer AoE chorus buff gives time-pulsing song buffs that can over-write deep sleep.

While creative, those are less than ideal solutions. By the way, your merc traps don't damage yourself neither allies, unlike player traps, so merc is not an option. At least in the future there will be a party oriented solution, when laudas get the balancing update.

[Fibrizzo]

I've heard having really high int makes you immune to it, seems it was wrong I think.

No. I have 120 base int and I fall sleep deeply (lol? xD) like a novice 1/1.

[Anko]

It is the start of renewal, having the ability to resist everything at this point in the game gives them little scope to expand.

[Viri]

Agi(or flee maybe?) helps resist masquerades too. When I reset from 1 agi to 85 or so base they barely land on me anymore -_^

[Sera]

It is the start of renewal, having the ability to resist everything at this point in the game gives them little scope to expand.

Except when you have a three-year turn-around time on major updates, that argument is pretty silly.

[Anko]

Except when you have a three-year turn-around time on major updates, that argument is pretty silly.

How many years did it take for mage class to be to resist stun 100% without orc heros? Not saying it is right but that is the way they roll.

Also, apparently the skill balancing patch which lets laudus ramus (sp?) cure it is not going to take 3 years but should be coming soon according to heims thread.

[Kadnya]

It is the start of renewal, having the ability to resist everything at this point in the game gives them little scope to expand.

Sacrificing something in order to resist something sounds ok, in any game stage. For example, sacrificing damage and/or cast speed in order to get 100 vit to resist stun was ok. Not everyone could get 100 vit in their builds, because some people needed to cast fast, or to do damage, or to have highest speed... when combined with the need of other maxed stats to resist other status, noone could reach all resistances and still do well in damage, defense, etc.

The problem was breaking this balance through gear: you can get 100% stun resist on thief/swordy/merchy classes with X setup and zero vit. Or, you can get max aspd with zero investing in agi with X setup. Or even worse, you can get max aspd, max damage, stun resist, and high damage, like in biochems in prerenewal. Renewal didn't change this.

The problem isn't having mechanics that make status resistible or possible to recover, the problem is when those resistances come without sacrificing anything. Renewal was supposed to expand limits indeed. It could have, for example, raised the stat limits to 150, and set the new stun or other resistances limit at 150 too, so you had to sacrifice other things; and set a gear limit on how much resistance you could have: for example, limit the max gear resistance at 80%, or make it so reaching resistance by gear makes you weaker against Y or Z attack. But instead, renewal just gave us more stat points making easy to reach max resistance of everything resistible while maintaining high damage, then introduce irresistible status and disables, and finally introducing a I-don't-care-about-your-build stat resistance system where level will matter more than anything, as if lower leveled people were stronger than higher leveled people and there was a need for a handicap.

Edited by Kadnya, 26 April 2011 - 04:51 AM.

[Kadelia]

it already got nerfed on kRO so that its 1) harder to deep sleep people (lower chance) 2) harder to deep sleep (shorter range), 3) easy to remove with an arch bishop AoE cure.

[meoryou2]

I can think of a number of deep sleep counters/possible counters, though perhaps none as ideal as the pre-renewal example of a high vit support priest that casts status recovery on stunned targets.

Counters:
1) A ranger half screen away uses a damaging trap to wake a friendly party from deep sleep.

2) A performer half screen away casts a song buff (e.g. gloomy or harmonize) on a performer that is within the sleeping group. The now awoken performer casts some AoE song buff (like siren's voice). Less ideally, the half-screen performer wakes entire group up themselves (and risks being CC'd themselves).

Possibilities:
1) A deep slept person commands an archer merc to use some damaging trap (like landmine)

2) A persistant performer AoE chorus buff gives time-pulsing song buffs that can over-write deep sleep.

Counter #3: Sura with Lion Howling maxed basically screen wide cancels every performer buff / debuff. Most Suras don't have that though since it only does like 900% damage as well.

[Akin]

If there was a way to remove deep sleep (say for example, an archbishop or another support chara skill) and the skill could be resisted in some hard way (like, 120 base agi resists deep sleep, or X rare card or set) so you could actually have a chara dedicated to recover it...

Funny you should mention it. The latest skill updates from kRO adds Deep Sleep to the list of statuses that Lauda Ramus cures.

Link

Lauda Agnus

- Now additionally removes Burning, Cold, and Lock (Diamond Dust) status.

Lauda Ramus

- Now additionally removes Howling of Mandragora and Deep Sleep.

[Kadnya]

I did mention laudas curing the status in the future some posts above, it's just that I spam the forums too fast to catch on everything ^^;. But the general idea is the same, not only for deep sleep, but for every other status: there needs to be a counter or a way to cure it, and ultimately, remove the status after log-in.

I'm looking at you, Gx poisons! rendering a chara useless on battle is okish, but rendering a chara useless on battle, and then in the next minutes, afking in town for some time isn't nice. The option to cure poisons is okish in battle, but if you don't have a chara to cure you, and re-logging already removed you from battle, I find it ok to remove the poison. Maybe make it so if you relog after having the effect of Gx poison you instantly die, so any buff you had active is removed too, but you are able to go back into playing instead of afking.

Edited by Kadnya, 26 April 2011 - 10:38 AM.

[Mefistofeles]

omg mandragora howling is the worst status ever...... the skill is instant, no cool down and affects a whole guild( even a Fkin Nation) the genetic and shuras are the OP characters with their skills with no fixed cast time and damages of 90k, arrullo and deep sleep lullaby are sad, both have a fixed cast time of 2 seconds and a huge variable cast time, the lullaby affects allys and party menbers!!!!! better take a look to cursed circle, tigger canon, GoH, mandragora howling, crazy weeds, cart canon...... deep sleep status is sad. in fact both classes( maestro and sorcerer) are the weakest things in iro, and really SAD, have you seen a maestro killing a shura? a genetic?

AAAAAAAAAAAH AND REMENBER, sura is the only class that get 1.5x damage on all their third class skills when they reach the level 150

gates of hell: atack (xx)5000%(10)=50,000 damage

Edited by Mefistofeles, 26 April 2011 - 03:34 PM.

[BlackPotato]

Funny you should mention it. The latest skill updates from kRO adds Deep Sleep to the list of statuses that Lauda Ramus cures.

Link

worst. update. evar