25 replies to this topic

[Bahamut2]

Where are the kafra point employees in prontera? They are gone forever!

Edited by Bahamut2, 03 May 2011 - 02:17 AM.

[piri]

Do you mean the Kafra shop (item mall) ladies? They're in Payon, just walk north from the spawn point until you run into them.

[ExDarkrb]

They have ran away cause Holgrehenn was too noisy breaking stuff

[Typhin]

I went to Payon to pick up an item from them, and they don't seem to be carrying the item I wanted. The website listed "Evolved Bunny Band" for 200P, but it's not there in the store. (One of them has a "Bunny Band Box" for 250P that contains a rental band, but I wanted the permanent one, even with less stats.)

What's the deal with that?

[SirDillhole]

The items listed on the site has not been updated for like, 2 years? Maybe even more...
So the only way to check what they're selling is to go to Payon and actually talk to them..,

[RichestinIRO]

is this a permanent thing or are they going to restore the kafra ladies to their previous spots?

[Typhin]

That's pretty irritating, since I made a decision to buy points based on the website. >.< Keeps feeling like I'm being punished for trying to play this game.

[Axylus]

Kafra employees in Prontera, they were removed on purpose so we can make sure the shop is stable post VIP change, it will be updated in the future.

[Riand]

If you can't find the headgear you're looking for at the Payon kafras, it might be with the kafras at the Prontera dye/wedding shop.

[Hacks]

That's pretty irritating, since I made a decision to buy points based on the website. >.< Keeps feeling like I'm being punished for trying to play this game.

WELCOME TO THE CLUB

[DrAzzy]

The items on the website are supposed to get updated when the kafra shop is updated. I thought it was updated when they removed that bunch of crappy hats that weren't selling from the kafra shop.

I'm not sure whether the evolved bunny band was one of the ones that was removed. Did you check all the npcs? Including the one in prontera wedding shop? Though i thought wedding shop was supposed only contain the dyeable hats.

As i recall, there was nothing special about the evolved bunny band, though, and bunny band is makable in-game (though I havn't seen one in years - it's one of the old school headgears that was sought after way back when i started playing.

[Typhin]

I'm not sure whether the evolved bunny band was one of the ones that was removed. Did you check all the npcs? Including the one in prontera wedding shop? Though i thought wedding shop was supposed only contain the dyeable hats.

As i recall, there was nothing special about the evolved bunny band, though, and bunny band is makable in-game (though I havn't seen one in years - it's one of the old school headgears that was sought after way back when i started playing.

I didn't find the wedding shop, when I looked online it said they were in the forge (I did find the Gym Pass NPC there).

I know there's nothing special stat-wise about the band, I just wanted it for the looks. The Bunny Band was something I always wanted to make when I first started playing, but was never able to get the materials for it. (I did get a Four Leaf Clover this time around, now I just need the Pearl and the Kitty Band. Too bad I couldn't get my old account back, I had the Kitty Band on that one.) I suppose I'll check the Prontera Wedding Shop later, if they sell it I'll have to buy more points, because I spent the points I did buy on gum. ^_^;;

[Heimdallr]

I don't believe we've sold the bunny band as a permanent item in a very long time.

[Hacks]

I don't believe we've sold the bunny band as a permanent item in a very long time.

you dont seriously not know what he's talking about do you? these things dont just delete themselves. somebody has to go in there and remove it. and while we're on the subject of bunny bands, the rental bunny band is the only one left for sale in the kafra shop, which by the way still hasnt been updated for renewal. the 9 def it gave back pre-renewal combined with demi reductions and the total trollishness of the bunny ears sprite made it an effective WoE headgear, now it's just overpriced crap. why must you continue to neglect the cash shop? these items need their effects adjusted in an upwards manner for renewal. this should be first priority stuff here, it is afterall your prime revenue source for this game now is it not? why do you continue to fein ignorance about every querry about items missing from the cash shop? the all in one ring has been missing for what seems like a year now, and yet no gravity staff has responded on this issue. whats the deal here man? i got all kinds of cash to spend, give me something to buy here!

[Heimdallr]

The rental Bunny Band is indeed in the game, but the player was asking about a permanent "evolved" one or something, and there isn't a perm one.

Items that aren't in the shop aren't meant to be in the shop, if you have some wants we can review them to see if such is available and part of our viable plan for hte Kafra shop. The old hats will likely be removed entirely and new items replacing them.

[Hacks]

The rental Bunny Band is indeed in the game, but the player was asking about a permanent "evolved" one or something, and there isn't a perm one.

Items that aren't in the shop aren't meant to be in the shop, if you have some wants we can review them to see if such is available and part of our viable plan for hte Kafra shop. The old hats will likely be removed entirely and new items replacing them.

omfg heim you make me facepalm.

it's very simple. playragnarok.com advertises the availability of a great many number of items that you can purchase from the kafra shop. many of the items listed cannot be purchased as they cannot be found in said shop. what this means is the main advertisment for this game makes several misleading and/or fraudulent claims to the availability of items for sale. in your own very special way, you've basicly said "everything is working as intended". i think many will agree with me in that i'm really getting sick of the whole "working as intended line". if the intention is to defraud users of their cash in hopes of being able to buy an item advertised as for sale in game in exchange for points bought with real money then bravo sir well done. ever see that episode of the simpsons where the family goes to the itchy & scratchy theme park? they're greeted at the entrance by a guy that sells them special money thats only good for purchases in the park. only after homer forks over all his cash and gains entry to the park does the family discover that every shop, ride and food stand have a big fat sign on it stating they do not accept the fake money. naturally, theres no refunds on them to be had. this is basicly whats going on here. people see something they would be willing to spend money on, go get their kafra points, and when they go shopping, none of these items can be found. when the hat cleanup was done and the npc to "dye" headgear was put in, somebody decided to take the all-in-one ring out of valkyrie. it's still out even after f2p. with kafra pricing being made the same across all servers, somebody even went to the trouble of updating the price on the website, most likely oblivious to the fact that the item is still unobtainable on valk. nobody has ever aknowledged it is missing or even that this was infact intended, they just skirt around the issue like you just did without actually saying anything. i want a solid answer on this issue. why was an item that was made SPECIFICLY FOR SALE ON VALKYRIE removed without warning, explanation or even aknowledgement when asked about it's disappearance? vitata cards were removed from the server specificly to promote sales of this item.

either tell me the removal of this item from the kafra shop was intentional and the information stating it could be bought for 500KP on the valkyrie server was intentionally left up on playragnarok.com after it's removal all the way until the f2p revamp of the site, some 10 months or so or tell me it was accidently removed all that time ago and will be restored at next maintenance. solid answer for a paying customer is all i'm asking here.

[Typhin]

Heimdallr, thank you for your time. I apologize if I'm not understanding properly. It's been several years since I played, and last time I played there was no Kafra Shop or Kafra Points or anything.

Are you saying that this item, "Evolved Bunny Band", advertised at http://www.playragna...px?i=23&p=3&c=2 at this very moment, is absolutely impossible to obtain in-game? And if so, is there any way for a player such as myself to be able to know what IS obtainable in-game, short of going to the Kafra Mall Employees and viewing their inventories? The iRO Wiki (at http://irowiki.org/wiki/Main_Page ) seems to have very little information about the subject, as I had tried to visit it in order to learn more.

If this item is impossible to obtain, why is it still listed on the website as being available for sale for 200 points? This sort of behavior feels a lot like "bait-and-switch" to me, and is incredibly frustrating for someone who already has been forced to start over, suffer through the poor handling of the Thief class change area (Dropped in the middle of the Pyramid with no indication of where to go, near-instant death from high-level monsters if you pick the wrong exit, respawn point set to Morroc, and tons of bats in the way of getting back to the class change NPC), and now trying to muddle through missing and false information after paying real money for an item I'm told I can't actually get. What's next, a quest where a key NPC simply says "(No English text available.)" like in Open Beta?

It's not my intention to sound insulting or aggressive or anything, so if I do, I apologize. I'm just getting frustrated with a game where it seems exceptionally difficult to get solid, reliable information on anything.

[Typhin]

Okay, it's been three days neither Heimdallr nor any other official representative have responded. I have no recourse but to assume that the website is unreliable, and to avoid the Kafra cash shop in the future.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

What follows is an incredibly long post that takes up issues regarding Gravity's incompetence herein: The Terms of Agreement, The Kafra Shop, WarpPortal Energy, Some things that cross with Californian Law.


If you want to read, please do.
If not, skim over and try and snatch up some things from it. This is incredibly long but has a lot of content valid for us users.


The fact that the website doesn't get updated is just laziness.

What do people look at when they find a game? They look at the website.

There is nothing that says "ITEM LIST IN WEBSITE KAFRA SHOP IS NOT UPDATED".



Updating the website every maintenance takes five to ten minutes. I looked over the EULA yesterday, and tried looking for a FAQ and a "terms of agreement" text actually.

I found that the EULA has last been updated in 2006, there is no FAQ, the support database is useless because it contains replies to user submitted issues which are mostly unique, nothing that stated that the website might not always contain the same as in game would, there is nothing that states anything really. Even the Terms of Agreement goes against itself.

The only thing you can find that states stuff like this is if you register a new account and click the "Terms" link next to the box where you check off for "I agree to these terms". There's no "click here for legal" link otherwise.

HOWEVER.


I did find this in the "Refund Policy":

ALL PAYMENTS FOR WARPPORTAL ENERGY ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART. 
YOU ARE FULLY LIABLE FOR ALL CHARGES UNDER YOUR ACCOUNT.

This means:

We, Gravity state that you buy WarpPortal Energy under your own responsibility. If something happens that does not reflect your purchase, you are not entitled to have your money back.

If such happens, that you decide to contact your bank and pull the payment to buy WPE back, your account on WarpPortal will be suspended, possibly terminated.

Furthermore:

You agree that Gravity has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate WarpPortal Energy and/or Premium Items. 
Gravity will have no liability to you based on the exercise of such rights.

The core of this is: If Gravity sees it fit, it can do anything to your WPE without you complaining to it.


The rest:

IN NO EVENT SHALL YOU BE ENTITLED TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES OR PRORATION THEREOF. 
UPON TERMINATION OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOUR ACCESS PRIVILEGES TO THE WARPPORTAL SERVICE AND ALL GAMES CONTAINED THEREIN WILL TERMINATE AND YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED PAYMENTS THAT YOU PURCHASED OR RECEIVED PRIOR TO TERMINATION. 
THIS INCLUDES A TERMINATION FOR A PERIOD OF NON-ACTIVITY OF YOUR USER ACCOUNT.

This tells us, and I will explain it after this segment as well:

Whatever happens; If you spend money on us, be it credit card or what not: You will never get your money back.
The only way you can get your money back, is if you contact your bank and explain the laws that are being broken by gravity.

Doing this, will also cancel your accounts. You will lose access to everything.


THIS IS THE GOOD STUFF:

This part is found by going here: WarpPortal>PowerUp>RefundPolicy

The site is purely javascript based, you cannot link to it.

Even right clicking is disabled.



So for the good stuff: I've looked over these from time to time, a few times a year just to see if they change them here and there.

And so far I've found this:

A few years ago they didn't have such explicit rules.
If you were a paying customer you had "more" freedom as it didn't say exactly the same as it does not.

However, when WarpPortal came, they updated everything and put in this stuff.

Now the previous users, who have already agreed to the previous terms have "auto-agreed" and will be put up against this if things go bad.


Basically it's a trick.

By having a game account on ragnarokonline.com, you were subject to the rules set there.
When WarpPortal came along you had to create a "master account" to control your ingame account.

So what they're doing is saying "If you want to continue having control over you account at us, you need to accept these new rules."

But because you already have an account you will automatically have "agreed", even if you have not. Because the account is ruled under the WarpPortal agreement.
Even if you refused to make a master WarpPortal account your game account would still go under the updated rules.


At point 11. Liability in the Terms of Agreement found on http://www.warpporta...ragreement.html

Is states:


11. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
USER ACKNOWLEDGES THAT GRAVITY SHALL NOT ASSUME OR HAVE ANY LIABILITY FOR ANY ACTION BY GRAVITY OR ITS CONTENT PROVIDERS OR OTHER LICENSORS WITH RESPECT TO CONDUCT, COMMUNICATION OR CONTENT OF THE SERVICES. GRAVITY SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICES OR ANY PRODUCT PROVIDED BY GRAVITY. GRAVITY'S ENTIRE LIABILITY AND USER'S EXCLUSIVE REMEDY WITH RESPECT TO USE OF THE SERVICES AND ALL CONTENTS & SOFTWARE DEVELOPED BY OR FOR GRAVITY SERVICES WHICH IS FOUND TO BE DEFECTIVE USING MEDIA CHOSEN BY GRAVITY SERVICES SHALL BE LIMITED TO AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAID BY USER FOR THE DEFECTIVE SERVICE LESS AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO THE VALUE OF THE SERVICE FOR THE TIME THAT IT OPERATED PROPERLY. GRAVITY'S LIABILITY TO USER FOR ANY AND ALL BREACHES OF THIS AGREEMENT IS LIMITED SOLELY TO THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF WARPPORTAL ENERGY CURRENTLY REMAINING ON THE WARPPORTAL ACCOUNT.

YOU AGREE THAT GRAVITY CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANYTHING THAT OCCURS OR RESULTS FROM ACCESSING THE WARPPORTAL SERVICE.


I bolded the important parts.

This is a negative statement, as it's stated that Gravity's liability limits itself to the equal amount of the amount paid by the user- if the user uses a media chosen by Gravity.

Then right under that they throw in a bold one, saying "You agree that gravity cannot be held responsible or liable for anything that occurs or results from accessingthe warpportal service.


Sounds great right?

With the nendroids that means that the ones who bought the figure is entitled to the entire figurines worth back as liability for gravity's incompetence because they didn't get their figurines in time and was several months late.
According to California law they are responsible for getting an item bought by a consumer to the consumer in the course of 30 days.


Gravity's "Terms of agreement" holds pretty badly up when you take it to court.


In fact, the only thing you risk by complaining and wanting to get your money back is your account. Want your money back? Well we can't do that.

Want it anyway so you take it to court? Well, you can't have your account then.



Buying WPE means: You buy a currency through the media Gravity has set up for you.

You will have to use that, and if anything happens Gravity pays you back only what you paid for- if you take it to court.
In the Nendroid case, that wouldn't have held up and Gravity would have been owing a lot more than what the figure costed.

For the case of Kafra Points;

You can buy kafra points, but if the website says something that isn't ingame then you aren't entitled to the WPE back, or your money back.


This is easily solved by going to court, if you paid for 10k WPE and you found out that "Hey the website has something on it, but ingame it's not what is stated on the website" then you can sue Gravity for false advertising.

No matter what the Terms of Agreement say.

If you have a good lawyer, you can keep your account too.


All this about the website and ingame, combined with their BS at trying to make a valid ToA that reflects "The Company" is just ridiculous.


One phone call is all it takes and we can have Gravity crawling on it's knee's for a while because of a lawsuit that cripples much of it's "service"


Even the Terms of Agreement isn't updated.

It states you have to give your credit card information and true information about yourself and that you give Gravity the right to pull funds from your card in order to pay for access to the game.

Now that the game is F2P, this is untrue. Gravity states as well that they will give 30 days warning before they change anything regarding the legal work, such as payments, agreements and all that.


I'd like to sit and read through this a bit more:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

But I have a history exam on monday so I can't do that.



TL;DR: Gravity has a lot they need to fix, because they can still be sued for various things regarding their company and how things are done.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

Also in: 13. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES


GRAVITY MAKES NO WARRANTY THAT DEFECTS IN ITS SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED OR THAT THE WEBSITE OR SERVER THAT MAKES IT AVAILABLE WILL BE FREE OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS.


This is really not something that makes me think "This is so safe!".

[piri]

It sounds like you were procrastinating instead of studying

In all honesty, while there is a lot that Gravity needs to fix, this isn't something to raise the alarms over as the majority of users will not run into a situation where any of this affects them. For the small numbers of users who DO run into problems, the best advice is to start off by playing nice with Gravity in trying to reach a solution that both sides are happy with. Dialing the nasty up to 9 from the get-go is going to get you nowhere really fast.

I do realize that you have a particular beef with Gravity regarding the Nendroid debacle; while it is very unfortunate that things went on for so long as they did, the playerbase at large is not going to run into problems where they need to resort to legal proceedings.

Typhin, I hope that you have submitted a ticket to request assistance in addition to asking for a response from Heimdallr here, or have at least sent him a PM about the issue. I wouldn't rely so much on resolution through this forum thread, especially since this thread was originally started by someone else and about a different issue than what you are having trouble with.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

It kinda just annoys me in the long run, some players show faith and buy stuff, like the OST disks and there was a problem with that too.

There's always problems, I don't get it. This is a company. It runs worse than some of the pservers on many things. Only now they are showing signs of listening to the players, however they still need input from the players ingame.


Everything just piles up..


And I'm kinda taking a break from reading now. It's not good for one to always read.

[DrAzzy]

The rental Bunny Band is indeed in the game, but the player was asking about a permanent "evolved" one or something, and there isn't a perm one.

Indeed - the problem is not that the Evolved Bunny Band isn't available (it was removed eons ago, for the very good reason of being utterly useless and unpopular). The problem is that the website still lists it as available.

There should not be entries in the kafra shop item list on the website which are not sold by the kafra shop NPCs in game.

[piri]

Just for the record, one of the first items I bought from the kafra shop was the evolved bunny band D:

But yeah, the website really does need to be cleaned up and someone needs to help that guy out.

[Hacks]

Indeed - the problem is not that the Evolved Bunny Band isn't available (it was removed eons ago, for the very good reason of being utterly useless and unpopular). The problem is that the website still lists it as available.

There should not be entries in the kafra shop item list on the website which are not sold by the kafra shop NPCs in game.

which is exactly my complaint for the last 10 months when they removed the all in one ring box from valkyrie and continued to sell it on the other servers and list it as for sale on valk for 500KP. the pages for the kafra shop were updated for F2P, as costs were updated to match what everything was changed to. there is still no mention that AIO ring is not available on valk, unlike other specific items that are only available on certain servers. this has long lead me to believe that this item was taken out by mistake and no gravity staff has ever confirmed or denied it was removed on purpose, they simply will not respond to this issue.