151 replies to this topic

[heyxsean]

Mandragora Howling ... dam I can't bwing... =P
Seriously, I had food on and being attacked, couldn't get any spell off. So...clicks bwing...teleport cast bar iFAIL.

Edited by heyxsean, 28 April 2011 - 08:00 AM.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

leave manhole and suicidal destruction alone.

Seriously, what ELSE are shadow chasers and mechanics supposed to do?

[BlackPotato]

Nerf Droyd's ability to post :-P

this +11,000,000,000

[meaning42]

leave manhole and suicidal destruction alone.

Seriously, what ELSE are shadow chasers and mechanics supposed to do?

^This.

It's not that the classes are completely helpless against eachother, Suras just are more viable against everyone and Mage classes a tad too weak.
Also, as said previously, heal sucks. To heal up my SC, it drains all my babys SP.

[BlackPotato]

Mandragora Howling ... dam I can't bwing... =P
Seriously, I had food on and being attacked, couldn't get any spell off. So...clicks bwing...teleport cast bar iFAIL.

heres a hint. people resist mandragora in woe. and its not the stats listed

[Luckywhiterabbit]

^This.

It's not that the classes are completely helpless against eachother, Suras just are more viable against everyone and Mage classes a tad too weak.
Also, as said previously, heal sucks. To heal up my SC, it drains all my babys SP.

Well I wouldn't say sorcerors are weak, but as for Warlocks...

[Fibrizzo]

leave manhole and suicidal destruction alone.

Seriously, what ELSE are shadow chasers and mechanics supposed to do?

In my honest opinion Mechanics could be greater supporter characters. Not all the work in WoE it's supossed to be dealing damage...

And Stalkers are annoying even without Manhole. A fast shadowform to prevent skills like GFist, GoH... And the masquerades are really annoying >.<

[Luckywhiterabbit]

Shadow form won't save you from cursed circle and GoH/Gfist. Shadow form also can' be used to strategically incapacitate dangerous members of the opposing team, which is what shadow chasers do and should do.

Manhole is fine the way it is. It's a very interesting skill which gives us a defining role in PvP. You cannot rely on masquerades since nobody is going to just stand there and let you repeatedly cast it on them.

Even if a shadow chaser does still have the masquerades, they don't have any way to effectively 'remove' opponents from the game since they do not kill. Manhole is our only true means of offense, and even then it's not something that directly kills players.

You can only have 3 manholes at once, and they can't be cast right under a target. More often than not, I manhole my teammates by accident in crowded situations due to cast time and lag, which can be devastating (not to mention embarassing).

Genetic's hell plant is imo more obnoxious than manhole. It kills just about anything it hits, sits around for a long time, and when placed there's basically no way to get rid of it other than to sacrifice yourself. Do I think it should be nerfed though? Not at all. All characters should have at least one very powerful and effective skill to give them a defining role.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 28 April 2011 - 10:53 AM.

[Fibrizzo]

What's the "very powerful and effective" skill of an Arch Bishop? Silentium? Clearance? Secramenti? Adoramus? ...

[BlackPotato]

What's the "very powerful and effective" skill of an Arch Bishop? Silentium? Clearance? Secramenti? Adoramus? ...

The correct answer is Sacrament

[Fibrizzo]

The correct answer is Sacrament

Really? A skill that reduces 50% of fixed cast? When the fixed cast uses to be the 20% of the entire cast (except some skills that are 100% fixed cast, of course...) That means that is a skill that reduces 10% cast time... Yay, awesome

The blessing when prerenewal was the awesomest skill for an aco-class (matk, atk, hit, reduces cast time...)

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I believe it was supposed to be either Adoramus or Epiclesis. It's just that AB class as it is got the short end of the stick as far as skill design goes.

RK: Dragon breath/spiral
RG: reflect/pinpoint
Sorc: PsyWave/Arrulo
Warlock: White Imprison/crimson rock
Ranger: fire trap/warg bite
Performer: Severe Rainstorm
GX: Cross Impact/New Poisons
SC: Manhole/Masq
Mechanic: Suicidal Destruction
Genetic: Mandrahowling/Hell's Plant
Archbishop: ?????
Sura: Everything (GoH/Snap/cursedcircle)

and so on so forth. Every class except for Archbishop has at least one or two really strong skills, or at least one or two really useful skills. Play to your character's strengths instead of whining about the strengths of other people's characters.

[DrAzzy]

Then how the heck am I suppose to kill anyone?

You're not!

Is it not enough to un-dragon RK's*, block item use**, block skill use, strip all gear*, strip accessories, lock people down with manhole, redirect your damage to other players via a hard-to-see shadowy grey line, and inflict GX poisons more effectively than a GX, fly around through mobs of enemies with -_- while being almost impossible to target, and copy any other offensive skill of your choice, and move around at speedpot speed while invisible?

SC is a devastatingly effective class, even without tricks like SF/Manhole.

I'm not complaining so much that SC's are overpowered (i cited the specific nerfs I wanted to see - namely ways to reduce the chance of being masq'ed, and nerfing deadly infect to not transmit GX poisons)

*Might as well have killed them, particularly in the case of full strip.
**Which will result in death if your guildies are even vaguely competent.

heres a hint. people resist mandragora in woe. and its not the stats listed

Heim indicated that he was getting howled with GM stats and a large level advantage. Can you provide any additional information? If not, I call BS on this claim.

The correct answer is Sacrament

Amen.

One of the Lauda's is being changes to cure deep sleep, IIRC - when that happens, it will be able to compete with Sacrament for the title of best AB skill.

I don't care about resisting it...my point is...I didn't know bwing was a skill.

What did you think it was? It just casts level 2 teleport.

It might be a good idea to exclude some skills from howling - one could argue for "any instant cast skill", or "any skill cast by an item" should not be effected by howling, but i don't feel like that's the big issue with howling. It's the fact that you can't do anything to resist it, and the only skill to cure it has such a long cooldown that only the most important couple of players will ever see clearance used on them.

Edited by DrAzzy, 28 April 2011 - 11:34 AM.

[heyxsean]

heres a hint. people resist mandragora in woe. and its not the stats listed

I don't care about resisting it...my point is...I didn't know bwing was a skill.

[Fibrizzo]

Yeah, I think epiclesis is an awesome skill. 2 AB keeping the tree under a precast or even when MvPing/ET run it's an awesome buff (+25% hp and hp/sp regen it's quite awesome) but this is not the ultimate skill for a supporting class because everybody is moving on siege so it's only usefull on precasts >.<

And... I don't understand what did you mean with this:

Play to your character's strengths instead of whining about the strengths of other people's characters.

When I was whining about the strengths of other people's characters?

[ItalianChild]

Italianchild being the biggest troll, mandragora howling is a skill that only works against players so if it was nerfed in woe it wunt be fun or anything at all. Besides, this is the best skill to show teamwork, many classes overdepend on skills except GX, so this is the time for the GXs to pop out and crush us gens like crap so you shut ur trap people!

Gingers have souls Dark!!

Mandy howling is clearly bugged, in a manner that makes it more powerful. Description states that vit and luk reduce chance of success, but they don't.
s.

Yea well im a VIT class and that howling always gets me, so yea i think you may be right but then again i really dont know the formulas really

Edited by ItalianChild, 28 April 2011 - 11:35 AM.

[Fibrizzo]

I use to avoid Mandragora Howling with 130 luk... (100 luk+ gloria)...

[BlackPotato]

Amen.

One of the Lauda's is being changes to cure deep sleep, IIRC - when that happens, it will be able to compete with Sacrament for the title of best AB skill.

damn work internet...

the ab skill can remove deep sleep and mandragora with the new update can it not?

Edited by BlackPotato, 28 April 2011 - 12:22 PM.

[meaning42]

You're not!

Is it not enough to un-dragon RK's*, block item use**, block skill use, strip all gear*, strip accessories, lock people down with manhole, redirect your damage to other players via a hard-to-see shadowy grey line, and inflict GX poisons more effectively than a GX, fly around through mobs of enemies with while being almost impossible to target, and copy any other offensive skill of your choice, and move around at speedpot speed while invisible?

SC is a devastatingly effective class, even without tricks like SF/Manhole.

I'm not complaining so much that SC's are overpowered (i cited the specific nerfs I wanted to see - namely ways to reduce the chance of being masq'ed, and nerfing deadly infect to not transmit GX poisons)

*Might as well have killed them, particularly in the case of full strip.
**Which will result in death if your guildies are even vaguely competent.


Heim indicated that he was getting howled with GM stats and a large level advantage. Can you provide any additional information? If not, I call BS on this claim.



Amen.

One of the Lauda's is being changes to cure deep sleep, IIRC - when that happens, it will be able to compete with Sacrament for the title of best AB skill.




What did you think it was? It just casts level 2 teleport.

It might be a good idea to exclude some skills from howling - one could argue for "any instant cast skill", or "any skill cast by an item" should not be effected by howling, but i don't feel like that's the big issue with howling. It's the fact that you can't do anything to resist it, and the only skill to cure it has such a long cooldown that only the most important couple of players will ever see clearance used on them.

All that is great and all, but as of right now, I am not in a woe guild and since I am only just a month into this game, I don't have a lot of friends online at all times, and those I have havn't progressed as far as me, so they dare not even venture into pvp.
So often, I am just in PvP by myself to keep things entertaining, and when I am in pvp by myself, I need some sort of offensive manovour.

It's not like using masq is risk free either(I don't even have Masq's yet), you need to get close to your enemy, and then you have to be lucky if it works or not.
You can't Manhole someone and strip and masq them, if that was the case then I would hsve to agree, manhole would have to go. but as it is right now, it's fine.
You can't even kill someone who's in the effect of manhole, except with SF, they are just incapasitated. I can see how it's annoying to be incapasitated in woe for 15seconds but I wouldn't say it's overpowered.

Like someone said before, you can often accidently Manhole allies as well, which is kind of a drawback aswell.

[Xellie]

So serious question, why must every class be able to kill? Last time I played Chaser, I'm pretty sure it was a supportive disabling class that could kill with < insert intimidated / reproduced skill here >

[meaning42]

I picked SC out of recommendation when I started because everyone told me they were good at most things, woe, pvp, pve, but if they would take away the only element I have of attack, that would ruin the entire class for me.
If you can't figure, that would suck and I would be forced to play one of the classes I like a lot less, Say, Rune Knight, just because I want to be able to inflict some pain and suffering as well.

Give a kid a toy car, he loves it very dearly, but then you take away two tires, the boy doesn't play with it anymore because it's BROKEN!

While you're at it, take away Suicide destruction, the only redeeming factor to being a Mechanic, take away the stealth elements from the Assassin classes, steal the wolf from the Ranger.

Don't go around nerfing all the classes until we all end up as bummed out as Warlocks.
Learn to adapt to other classes instead.

Edited by meaning42, 28 April 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[heyxsean]

Give a kid a toy car, he loves it very dearly, but then you take away two tires, the boy doesn't play with it anymore because it's BROKEN!

Go buy new wheels.

[meaning42]

Go buy new wheels.

If by that analogy you mean that I am suppose to program new mechanics into the game? Sadly, I am not capable of doing so.

[Viri]

Chaser is deep down a support class. It can disable people but if someone doesn't want to die to them, they're not gonna die to them lol. Your best "offensive measure" in pvp is landmine/shadowform someone in man hole rofl

[heyxsean]

Taking this thread too seriously...lalala