13 replies to this topic

[renouille]

Yesterday I was finally able to acquire an Arc Angeling card for my archbishop. It increased my SP recovery noticeably but still fell far below expectations. I was wearing no other +SP recovery% items, and even adjusting for Meditatio 10 (+30%) couldn't explain away the discrepancy.


What we found

After extensive testing, we discovered that +SP recovery% doesn't necessarily apply to all of your +SP/tick. Specifically, the amount of +SP/tick used to calculate +SP recovery% is 1 + [int/6] + [maxsp/100]. This is fine if your INT is below 120, but then it starts to fall apart. That's because this is not the formula for base +SP/tick. The real formula is 1 + [int/6] + [maxsp/100] + (int<120 ? 0 : 4+[int/2-60]), and it has been this way for many years--at 120 INT you get a sizable bonus and an additional +SP/tick for every 2 points of INT beyond 120.


What this means

If you have 120 or higher INT, the amount of extra SP recovered from +SP recovery% items is lower than what you'd expect. The higher your INT is, the greater the difference. For example, on my AB with 138 total int, 77 base luk, and 4.5k max SP, I get +82 SP/tick with no modifiers, and I should have +106 SP/tick with just Meditatio10 and +188 SP/tick with Meditatio10+AA. Instead, I get +102 SP/tick with just Meditatio10 and +171 SP/tick with Meditatio10+AA (because the +% stuff pretends my base SP recovery is +69 SP/tick, instead of the +82 SP/tick it actually is).


Summary

Expected +SP/tick: (from http://irowiki.org/wiki/SP_Recovery)

var SPR = 1;
SPR += Math.floor( MAX_SP / 100 );
SPR += Math.floor( INT / 6 );
if (INT >= 120) {
 SPR += 4;
 SPR += Math.floor(INT / 2 - 60);
}
SPR = Math.floor( SPR * (1 + SPR_MOD * 0.01) );

Actual in-game +SP/tick:

var SPR = 1;
SPR += Math.floor( MAX_SP / 100 );
SPR += Math.floor( INT / 6 );
SPR = Math.floor( SPR * (1 + SPR_MOD * 0.01) );
if (INT >= 120) {
 SPR += 4;
 SPR += Math.floor(INT / 2 - 60);
}

What is the explanation for this behavior? When I have +130% SP recovery, I expect +130% of my SP recovery... not +130% of some artificial, arbitrarily calculated lower base value.

[Kadelia]

Not much different than +% heal effectiveness skills only applying to part of the heal calculation...

[Xellie]

At least I know now that I wasn't imagining it when I said my sp regen felt slower since renewal

[Hacks]

percentage modifiers dont work correctly for anything in this game anymore since renewal. the GM line is "working as intended" in this matter. all percentage modifiers add their percentages somewhere in the middle of the calculations for everything instead of at the end like we'd expect. gravity will make no effort to correct this and we will suffer it until the day the servers go offline.

[Sera]

renouille is a magician

five dollars says they just try to copy-paste your code into the game

[meoryou2]

Are you wearing other SP increasing gears like variants or bryn or anything? Because from what I have noticed the % increases on stuff is applied ONLY to your original BASE non % increased amount. So the card is probably going off of your absolute gearless base SP and NOT your current max SP.

One example is the spellmasters headgear effect. It is supposed to reduce variable cast time by 10% and reduce max HP by 10%. If I am wearing variants + some armor of ares and put the head gear on it only reduces my max HP by 3-4%.... which equals out to ~10% of my max HP if I was not wearing variants and ares.

[renouille]

Are you wearing other SP increasing gears like variants or bryn or anything? Because from what I have noticed the % increases on stuff is applied ONLY to your original BASE non % increased amount. So the card is probably going off of your absolute gearless base SP and NOT your current max SP.

One example is the spellmasters headgear effect. It is supposed to reduce variable cast time by 10% and reduce max HP by 10%. If I am wearing variants + some armor of ares and put the head gear on it only reduces my max HP by 3-4%.... which equals out to ~10% of my max HP if I was not wearing variants and ares.

My tests involved many combinations of stats and gear, and my first post summarizes my conclusions. I didn't stop until my hypothesis correctly predicted the SP regen amount for every combination tested. To answer your question, I was wearing other SP increasing gear for some tests, and none for others (such as the example with my AB), but I always took the gear into account.

The reason I posted was that this was an unexpected nerf. The renewal heal formula has been on Doddler's wiki since mid-2009, and everyone was prepared for it. This, on the other hand, came as a bit of a surprise; I haven't seen it documented anywhere. I won't object if they claim this is "intended," but at the very least I would like some confirmation to eliminate the possibility that it's a bug. The people have a right to know.

[Sera]

It's probably intended, and coincides with the kafra blues.

[Ardi]

where were you right after renewal when everyone and their second cousins were complaining about this?

[Fibrizzo]

renouille is a magician

five dollars says they just try to copy-paste your code into the game

Do you really think they know how to copy-paste?

[Hrothmund]

hurm thats a bit annoying. It'd be nice to get it confirmed as "working as intended" or "bug" but yeah +% stuff in general is misleading in renewal, none of it does what it says it does.

[renouille]

five dollars says they just try to copy-paste your code into the game

As amusing as the prospect would be, I think they know that pasting javascript into their code won't work.

where were you right after renewal when everyone and their second cousins were complaining about this?

Somewhere else, apparently. Did they have a formula or were they complaining without any conclusive evidence?

I'm still fond of AA but I wouldn't have been nearly as enthusiastic if I'd known the truth in advance. In any case, for now I'm going to update the wiki as if it's intentional so that others won't make the same mistake.

[Sera]

As amusing as the prospect would be, I think they know that pasting javascript into their code won't work.

Do they really?

[Xellie]

As amusing as the prospect would be, I think they know that pasting javascript into their code won't work.


Somewhere else, apparently. Did they have a formula or were they complaining without any conclusive evidence?

I'm still fond of AA but I wouldn't have been nearly as enthusiastic if I'd known the truth in advance. In any case, for now I'm going to update the wiki as if it's intentional so that others won't make the same mistake.

I figured it was a sleipnir nerf ):