I'll be adding more to this thread when I feel like it, whether just in general or specifics about Harles. This is mainly about 1v1 PvP, cause it's where I get my kicks. It has also come to my attention that this works at its best when you are on equal footing with your opponent in terms of movespeed.
Foreword: There is a bit of fighting game terminology, as a Harle, you focus on one main thing in PvP: Okizeme, the wake up game.
"...okizeme is a term of Japanese origin describing the tactical situation during a match where one fighter has been knocked down onto his or her back. While the downed fighter's options are severely limited, many fighting games grant various techniques to allow them opportunities to recover momentum and/or defend against subsequent attacks."
The okizeme game consists of two main things as a Harle: A tech chase and a tech trap
"Tech-chasing is the act of following or predicting an opponent's tech in order to attack them before they can respond. Because a character's tech animations have small windows of vulnerability before a character can [do anything] it is possible to read the direction of a player's tech and punish the lag with an attack..."
A tech trap is setting up a situation where the opponent has an opportunity to air tech, but doing so only lets them run into your set up, catching them out of the air and sending them into a "helpless" state (No air tech, no immediate ground roll). This -chance- to escape is rewarded only if your opponent can guess right, otherwise they will fall into a more damage combo and/or another set up. A few popular ones are Upper Screw ~> Aerial Kick; Nado ~> Spin it Bear; Ambush ~> Fly; Tapping AAS after launches, and more.
Now, the random assortments of Hsien's info.
- You can Final Destination another Harle's Final Destination safely if they activate theirs first, the initial hitbox of Final Destination is actually bigger than the last few frames.
- Crazy Soul's proc activates on hit but stays active for a extremely brief time
- If enough attack speed, you can do a full regular combo after Final Destination, the last hit will knock back and stun, allowing for a timed follow up, such as another final destination (No stun, but locks). This is risky, because you're betting on one hit, avoid often use if you miss or they can block. A much safer variation on this is normal attack x2, grounded stab x2, rocket punch, which is exactly brief enough to "combo" (There's a gap where hit-detect moves can be used to counter, and sword dance can land, combo from behind). Against another Harlequinn, it is impossible to counter if the attack speed is perfect because Rocket Punch cancels the animation of Final Destination regardless of stun or not.
^ The former of the combo filler can be used to push the opponent into the corner to start a lock with Cossack Dance + Windmill.
- Common knowledge: You can catch an air tech with Aerial Kick after Upper Screw, and they will land helplessly on the ground. Not so common knowledge: After catching with Aerial Kick from Upper Screw, you can juggle with Aerial Frenzy to stall Upper Screw's cooldown; you can hold down Aerial Frenzy to the point that you fall along with the opponent, land simultaneously, groundstab and Upper Screw to set up another tech trap.
- Common knowledge: Windmill's flinches do not immediately lock up the opponent. Cossack Dance does not at all. Not so common knowledge: If you stun someone against a wall, then activating Cossack Dance then do Windmill, the flinches come often enough to allow Windmill to finish and you can go into Final Destination again.
- Fish Hook (4th job pull) stuns even on miss.
- While fighting someone with Impervious, Rocket Punch (Stun) Final Destination ~> Upper Screw (land) Rocket Punch is a legitimate combo. This applies for Crazy Soul, but take note the proc is 15%.
- Rocket Punch ~> Final Destination ~> Upper Screw ~> Rocket Punch ~> Final Destination ~> Fish Hook+Provoke ~> Final Destination ~> Rocket Punch ~> Final Destination ~> Upper Screw practically locks a Paladin in Barricade providing all stuns proc.
- The active frames for Fish Hook are very long, time it so that the second that opponent wakes up from an untechable, you are already pulling. This delays the pull back from Fish Hook but you finish the animation earlier, and allows a Provoke to be set off safely if jump-canceled.
- Provoke and ESP can be jump-canceled.
- What people do: Jump, air dash, cutdown, spazz. What I'd do: Jump, air dash, cutdown * Upper Screw * Aerial Kick: This tech trap has two spots where they can air tech at the * if they do, then they'll be in a helpless fall state and you can set up the same situation again. If not, end with judgement, then set up okizeme. Testing to see if this is punishable between cutdown and Upper Screw.
- Quick attacks! Don't just abuse Final Destination! A quick and safe attack is the regular air launch, you can Air Launch * Upper Screw * Aerial Kick as a standard tech trap from it. It's also a great attack to interrupt opponents with. Do not neglect your normal launcher, but if you don't have a move speed advantage over your opponent, hitting with it can be more than difficult.
- The game operates on negative edging: Your skill comes out once you release the key. To get the most efficient results and reactions, hold down your main attack button and release when you want to use it, get that split second difference in your attacks!
- Set an escape skill to two keys and alternate button presses rapidly for maximum efficiency of escapes.
- Moonwalk has a few seconds of invincibility after use. This invincibility is canceled if you are hit in its startup.
- Activating ESP directly after Moonwalk will have no effect
- When fighting an opponent who stacked enough movespeed to walk while stunned, pay attention if the opponent's health drops while attacking after a stun. In such a situation, lag can make the opponent appear to walk in a certain direction only to have them teleport once hit and possibly have you counter attacked. In this situation, attack them as soon as possible with a move of your choice, take note if the health drops or not, and react accordingly.
- Remember that burrow has a slight start-up, being attacked by hit detect moves or a stun/freeze will have your character go through the animation/effect while burrowed. For example, if you burrow at the same time Rocket Punched and stunned, you will stay stunned and unable to unburrow until the duration of the stun is over. If you are attacked by a Pathfinder's Hawk or Wolf, you will be launched and upon unburrowing, appear on the floor and vulnerable. This can be indicated by the shift in camera as if you were being launched when you are burrowed.
- You can delay your ground tech in a situation where it is advantageous. Also, remember that teching is invincible unless the move itself picks off the floor during your first few frames of animation.
- The hitbox of the higher levels of Rocket Punch is increased vertically, but the odd properties of its upwards hitbox (height; jumping over it) are still there.
- Aerial Frenzy ~> Judgement is a valid tech trap if delayed and the opponent is spamming air recovery
- Upperscrew and Aerial Kick hit cleanly in the air, if used right you can catch someone jumping or dash jumping around you. Do note that they are very much punishable
- Aerial Kick does not retains its old all-or-nothing properties, where all hits will either be blocked, missed, or critical'd.
- You retain the possible proc of Crazy Soul if you are hit with an untechable, but if you fall from being caught by a tech trap then it will not proc
- Stunned durations do not overlap in my experience.
- Upperscrew, land, jump then immediately Aerial Frenzy is a viable tech trap, but hard to land and can be open to punishment. It also only counts the first hit to catch, if the first hit misses or is blocked, be warned.
- A common mistake I see in Harle PvP is, after a Final Destination, they dash back and Cossack Dance first and follow with a Rocket Punch. Instead, Rocket Punch first, then Cossack Dance. It is: A. Safer (You can cancel the startup of Cossack) B. The combo, unlike the one mentioned first, will never have the Rocket Punch miss due to your opponent waking up.
^ The flaw in the first one is that it has a much tighter timing, because you would have to dash, turn around, and activate Cossack AND have enough time to RP. Whereas you can easily hit-confirm a Cossack and Final Destination after a stun.
Q: When do I use ESP?
A: Use it in the middle of combos, before a launch and whatever so you can play safe okizeme. Personally, it's dependent on your opponent: Do they charge at you, are you finding it hard to approach? Do you get locked often? Are there situations when you get hit too much? Use when necessary.
Q: Why don't you use or talk about Rolling Stinger?
A: Rolling what? In all honesty, if I feel the need to throw in some guaranteed damage or I'm just feeling myself, I'd do it. I tend to PvP without the usage of RS or Scream.
Q: How/When do I use Dread Judge?
A: Use it after an air combo, directly after Upper Screw or after an Aerial Frenzy two things to consider: A. They must be low to the ground; B. You can be in a position and have enough speed to catch them after a roll.
Q: Help, I just Final Destination'd, and they're still moving!
A: It's lag, stay calm, you have 4 options:
- Stand at their original position, (Good time to ESP) and time a rocket punch left or right or stand at where they might roll.
- Chase after them if you can and Rocket Punch them, this will proc stun, DO NOT ATTACK, THEY RECEIVE NO DAMAGE.
Simple wait out the time safely, they can't react from stun.
- Pull them, if stun procs, they will "teleport" back to their original spot and be hittable again.
- Borrow.
Q: How do I best deal secondary stuns to people with high evade after I catch them?
A: Every hit counts, I recommend this stunlock flow:
0: Reassess spacing (See 1a 1b 1c or 3a)
1a: Final Destination (See 2a or 2b or 2c or 2d)
1a+:Dash back, Cossack Dance, dash forward, Final Destination (See 2a or 2b or 2c or 2d)
1b: Rocket Punch; stuns (See 1a or 1a+)
1c: Rocket Punch; no stun (See 0 or 3d)
2a: Final Destination hits ~> Provoke before they fall (See 3a or 3b)
2b: Final Destination hits (Provoke on cooldown) (See 1b)
2c: Final Destination misses; all stuns on cooldown: Complete combo (See 0)
2d: Step back, Demon Shout! (See 1a)
3a: Provoke; stuns (See 1a)
3b: Provoke; does not stun (They are falling) (Proceed to 3c or 4c)
3c: Fish hook + Rocket Punch(See 1b or 1c)
3d: All FD/stuns on cooldown: Complete combo
Coming soon in an image format.
Q: I caught a ninja, but I'm April Fooled! What do I do?
A: Try a simple: Final Destination, Rocket Punch, Charge Awakening, Final Destination, Demon Shout. This combo bypasses the April Fools timer.
Q: When do I Awakening Charge?
A: Between combos, or just flat out in the open. The charge is quick and cancelable. After Final Destination and Rocket Punch (Stun) Give you an ample amount of time, once or twice and you'll have enough to Demon.
Q: How do I become better?
A: The Harle isn't built for PvP, but it holds very PvP-viable aspects in damage and a variety of escapes. The tools that it has are useful, but the class in its entirety is not. It is up to you, the player to choose and master what little you can.
This means, as a harle player, you must adapt, and force your opponent to also.
If you roll to the right once, only vertically, or roll to the longer side of the screen, you bet damn sure I'm noticing that.
If you air tech and cutdown every time, I'll keep a Rocket Punch waiting for you.
Counter-attacking me if you're pulled? Burrow, unburrow, Final Destination
Spamming tech after Upper Screw, use Aerial Kick, and if you're not? Land into Rolling Stinger (When it picks up again...)
A bowman air teching then shootdown, anti-air with Upper Screw, juggle with AK, AF, land US, etc.
I'm not saying that you need to pay attention to every little detail, I'm a regional level (I can't travel far) fighting game player (Explains the terminology) and it's an aspect that applies to everything, if you make them play your game you win. Some classes, don't have to, they can out-play the other opponent, but the Harle has to push the opponent out of their comfort zone, it's the one reason why we can compete (1v1, atleast) if we're on an even level. It's not a convenience, it's a necessity.
- - - - - Personal Q's and misc - - - - -
Q: Open to PvP matches?
A: Yeah, inbox me, I'll play as is, by your rules, something or whatever. Generally I just throw on movespeed and have fun.
Q: Opinions on Harles? Nerfs? Buffs?
A: Nothing I want to change, if they did, I'd like my 50/50 back from Upper Screw (Air tech ~> AK; No tech ~> RS), but I don't find anything wrong, especially with the incoming buffs like Rolling Stinger being cancellable and Fever mode. I'd like to find a use for some of the 3rd job moves though, drill rush should be untechable, chain hurricane's invici fixed as an escape, a little more fixing up on borrow, and Marionette's attack speed higher so we can complete it within a Rocket Punch, the move itself looks great. Nerfs? Fix Rocket Punch's hit box, it's too big/deceiving in lag, and make my Cossack Dance jump-cancellable again.
Q: How do you build your Harle?
A: Stack Aim, cause I just want to hit you. My evade is decent simply from the side positives of high Agility, but otherwise, I carry a staggering amount of equips to juggle myself in PvP to find the perfect combination. I don't mind stats, as long as I can deal enough damage to kill and not miss enough to influence the outcome, if not, I suppose it's no fun, right? Harles should pay alot of attention to aim, we need to make every time we touch someone count. That's our class. Catch, deal damage, play Oki. In group PvP, I can see evade starting to shift over, but it's proportional, you can balance both, maximize one, or maxmize the other, you can also hit the mid-points of them. I've also seen a decent health build with Heirloom Bone and Physical Defense Drop, but the lack of aim ultimately hurts.
Q: What about PvE?
Rotate between Final Destination, Upper Screw, and Windmill. Congrats, you're a killing machine. In more serious terms, you can learn to play in PvE by mastering the spacing of your attacks. When you learn the max ranges at which Final Destination, Aerial Frenzy, and other moves hit, it helps your PvP.
Edited by Aishi, 03 June 2011 - 12:31 PM.
