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#1 Jenna

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:03 PM

Here's my personal experience regarding the Underwater Dungeon. I quad-cliented to see what it would be like in an ideal party and to just check the place out. My killer was a Gypsy (56) and I was supporting myself with a High Priest (57) and at first duo'd, and then added two leechers to see how good the exp was.

1. Experience: When duo'ing, it was good experience. About ~1% per monster non-VIP, and about ~1.5+% exp for VIP. When Quading it was about ~.8% VIP and ~.4% non-VIP per monster; not bad experience for leveling some nubs.

2. Challenge: It's always a challenge playing multiple characters, but I enjoy it. The thing I had an issue with was 3+ monsters; pretty much if I ran into 3+ I was dead on level 4; Waterball, or whatever the spell casted on me hurt. So I guess the challenge was good. I couldn't test it out more with actual people playing other players of course, but it's still duo-able or as you don't try to tank epic mobs (unless you like potting furiously). I suppose my point is basically why would people go past 2-3 party members... xD

Some of my personal suggestions:

1. (Inb4beingcalled"lazy") Perhaps have a warper for levels 2-4. Getting disconnected suddenly isn't very fun moving back, but obviously this isn't needed. But because I believe it's a future VIP dungeon, I think it'd be nice to be able to get down into the dungeon quickly, especially level 4. While unfortunate getting disconnected, etc, I suppose it isn't needed.

2. I was the only one there (that I saw at least, on level 4), so I don't know if it's because people were waiting on other people to test it, or what. But partying other people i'm not so sure how that looks. I hope to see parties forming, but people who are able to solo I would wonder why would need to party because the experience would be much, much better. Is there a way to "boost" the +EXP in parties, or having an extra incentive to partying?

I think that's all for now. I hope to grab some buddies and see if they have any nubs they'd like to try it out even further. For me it was an interesting experience, it was just mediocre; I feel like I could get the same amount of EXP soloing on a different leveling map; but that's because I could only kill 1-2 monsters at a time. I'm not sure how mobs of monsters would work down there and being able to survive through it? But these are a few things I'd like to test sometime soon. Anyways, if anyone else has been there and would like to leave feedback about their adventures I'd love to read about it O_O.

Edited by Jenna, 05 May 2011 - 07:06 PM.

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#2 Heimdallr

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:38 PM

Thank you for the feedback.

Just to give you a future look: We will be adding a 5 part quest to the dungeon, the party can all take the quest and even if the monsters gave 0 exp I think the party would almost go from 30 to high 50s. There will be a special reward for finishing the whole quest too, and adding a warper to take you to your last completed floor could be done.

The warping out on logging out (either intentional or not) will be mitigated when the dungeon gets its access restrictions next week.

We haven't done much to "spice" up the monsters, and I would like to make them more customized, so more feedback from anyone that goes down there is much appreciated.
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#3 Kadnya

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:52 PM

This is my opinion of the dungeon, from testing it soloing on a melee supernovice level 53ish:

The monsters seem to have the same hit/flee requirements, and about 2x the attack as their original versions, the same defense, 5x the HP, and 3x the exp reward. I feel that the main point in "harder mode" should come from attack, hit, flee and defense changes, not in the HP. I'm not against increasing the monster HP values, but I feel that the exp, attack, and a bit of hit/flee increase might be good to make the hard mode feel hard mode. Something like this:


3x attack, 4x HP, 1.5x the defense, 10~20 higher hit/flee, and 6x exp would be okish base values for me.

Also, the first floors of the dungeon feel a bit empty. The first floor should get about 2x its current spawn, for example.

Since it is a harder mode, a few AI changes would be nice too: you could make some of the monsters in the first floors aggressive or assist other monsters.

The monsters currently drop the same than the normal versions and in the same rates. Harder monsters should drop more valuable things.

(will update later, testing more xP)
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#4 Stalkerness

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:55 PM

The monsters seem to have the same hit/flee requirements, and about 2x the attack as their original versions, the same defense, 5x the HP, and 3x the exp reward. I feel that the main point in "harder mode" should come from attack, hit, flee and defense changes, not in the HP. I'm not against increasing the monster HP values, but I feel that the exp, attack, and a bit of hit/flee increase might be good to make the hard mode feel hard mode. Something like this:


3x attack, 4x HP, 1.5x the defense, 10~20 higher hit/flee, and 6x exp would be okish base values for me.


based on sense windows, it looked like they had 1.3x the def of their normal versions
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#5 PsychoNerd

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:05 PM

Is the purpose of this dungeon just for leveling (and leveling quests later on?)?

I'm in the top floor of the dungeon right now as a dex/agi bow rogue level 74. The exp seems great (with VIP). But it also seems easy. I'm easily soloing at the top floor with just a dagger (even though I'm a bow rogue), though the kill takes longer. Nothing new or interesting compared to the original Byalan Island dungeon.

I think it would be more interesting if there are unique gears/drops or miniboss/boss monsters at the top floor. It would give me a better motivation in fighting here (I like to hunt for random unqiue things).
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#6 Heimdallr

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:41 PM

If it seems easy then we didn't increase it enough.

They have about double the drop rate of stuff from normal Byalan. We don't have unique items to give here, as it would further confuse the market, as other etc items would just be used as sell to NPC fodder.

We will up the monster power level a bit with next maintenance, our testing here was a bit on the easy side, a 4 person party in their 50-60s should feel challenged on the last floor, level 40s should be terrified.
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#7 Sheckley

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:34 AM

First experience:

You don't need a party to enter the dungeon!

Later more :P
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#8 Akin

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:56 AM

I went in by myself on a level 54 bard, went straight to level 5, and DS'd for a half hour and got to 61 with no manuals, but VIP.

It was a bit too easy (one lightning bolt from a strouf hit me for ~200 total, pierce from mermen was around 700?), the spawn was way too low (much lower than normal baylan), and the exp was ok (~3k job and base per kill). If I think it's easy on a bard that had 2K hp with no VIT or AGI, then it would be way too easy for a party of trans in their 60s. Not to mention that sharing as a 60s trans here with the low spawn won't be that speedy either. Maybe you should think about making non-trans, trans, and 3rd class dungeons so the difficulty and reward can be ramped appropriately. Also, if it's VIP, you should consider giving every member of a party 50% EXP so that partying is no worse than duo-ing. Before you or others argue that it's too much, remember that these latest string of turn-in events give each party member 100% EXP, whether it's 1 person or 12.

Don't write me off as a Negative Nancy yet though, this is a good exercise for the iRO staff and I'm excited that you have the processes in place to implement this type of stuff and create harder versions of monsters. I don't know if you read my post in your direction of RO thread, but with this, you've basically just made possible, one of my ideas:

2. Second, allow the same monster to have different stats, exp, etc. based on the map they spawn on. If that's too difficult then make a duplicate monster that has a ranking (say from 1 to 10?). My idea here is that we can try to scale dungeon levels to revive all the dead dungeons we have in the game. Take Payon dungeon for instance. There are 5 levels, and yet no 3rd class (most of the iRO population), has any reason to go there outside of Moonie. What you could do is set level 1 to be good for players ranged 10-30, level 2 would be for those 30-50, 3 would be 50-80, 4 scales from 80-110, and level 5 would be good for players in the 110-140 range (exp per hour here should be comparable to a magma 2 or juperos). What this means is that the 1-2 nine-tail you fight in level 3 of the dungeon is suitable for players in their 50s, 60s, and 70s (exp and drop wise), while the nine-tales you find on level 5 are fun to fight for people in their 110s, 120s, and 130s. Drop penalty is no longer a problem if you're fighting them on the correct level based on your character's level, the challenge ramps up (stronger attack, more skill usage maybe?), and the reward gets better (higher exp). On top of this, you put a scaled version of moonie on all levels. Level 1 moonie can be defeated by a party of people in their 20s, while level 5 moonie is the real deal that is a challenge for people over 110. In addition, lower level moonies would tele (or be immune to damage) if anyone over the recommended level of that map tried to attack them, while the level 5 moonie would be a normal non-drop penalty MvP. Take this plan, and apply it to as many dungeons that make sense as you can (Odin's probably wouldn't make sense to scale below level 90, while dungeons like sunken ship or toy factory might not make sense to scale over level 70) and now you, once again, have more options and freedom. The side effect of this is that you also remove a lot of level based drop penalty issues/complaints. I imagine with this that a group of well geared or highly motivated people could tackle a floor higher than their level for even greater exp rewards.

Link to my post.
I was thinking more of a permanent change to the real RO, but if you want to stick to events and VIP dungeons, that's fine I suppose. I look forward to seeing what you do with these quests you speak of.


@akin, having same monsters with different EXP, ATK and HP would do a lot of scripting. hence, it is not possible to do. just imagine how many monsters out there that they need to individually script(skills and stats), assign sprites, assign respawn rate and on what map. this is a tedious process i have to tell you.

Pssst, looks like they did it with these "Aged" monsters they made for the VIP dungeon, so nyaa nyaa nyaa :P J/K.

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#9 Akin

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:22 AM

Sorry to double post, but it seems that someone from the iRO staff just upped the spawn to normal Baylan levels. I just wanted to say thanks, it's a big improvement (though it's still not very difficult).
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#10 olbaid

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 08:18 AM

I just completed the dungeon on a non-VIP account using a reset stone.

Level 1,2,3: The spawn of the non-aggro monsters should be increased. The biggest issue is Marse hunting on level 3. The turn in at level 3 took the longest time out of all five levels because of the low spawn. I can understand not increasing the spawn of Obeaune since it can easily overwhelm new players if they are mobbed, but Marse are non-aggro and do not assist. Same issue with Kukre on level 2. Their spawn rate seems much lower compared to Vadons.

Level 4,5: Good spawn rate and difficulty. I had to use pots and aqua armor to survive the mobs of swordfish.

Consider changing the level restriction to 80 instead of 75. The exp is almost too good in the dungeon and you end up overleveling and cannot return inside. I had to put myself on 50% tax to stay under 76 and that was on a non-VIP character. A friend that tried the dungeon on a VIP character had to use 50% tax and res killed himself to stay in range.

Saw some thread posts about people not knowing about speaking to the sign post a second time after completing all five turn ins to get the card reward. If they leave the dungeon, possibility of not being able to return if the final turn in put them over the max level. Maybe add the ability to redeem the card reward at the Geffen Field signpost.
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#11 ABK1986

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 03:23 PM

I am enjoying it, but I see people down there that are in a party, but probably logged out of their alt as soon as they got in. This doesn't really help to encourage partying <_<
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