77 replies to this topic

[gravitysucks]

Harpies and medusas were really fun and in a sense, felt similar to the RO partying scene back when we still at goats & gators - newbie friendly, non-exp intensive, low cost. Lower the exp rate if need be but can we keep the turn in quests as a permanent feature rather than an exp-boosting event?

[Hacks]

oh god no, i've had to wait for this "event" to be over just so i can level on harpies again. these 0 exp per kill TI events are more hinderance than anything else. if you want TI's, fine, but the 0 exp bull-_- needs to end.

[Trixdee]

Would be a good idea to have some premenant repeatable killing or turn in quests.

[Heart]

Would be a good idea to have some premenant repeatable killing or turn in quests.

it would be EVEN better is the topic maker changes his name frm "gravitysucks"

[meaning42]

A permanent Turn In quest would also help all those alchemists with with level WTF,HIGHAS-_-/1X (Like me) It would really be neat to be able to have a efficent way to get job exp since our main attack force, homunculi, doesn't provide us with it. My biggest gripe is that the kills for quests doesn't count unless you get the finishing hit on a monster.

[Psychogenik]

Indeed party leveling is so much more fun than auto attacking single targets at lower levels...then again if they did this it would be VIP only.

Edited by Psychogenik, 09 May 2011 - 12:21 AM.

[KingOfBabylon]

Find a priest looking for a group, or just ask random people. But don't bring back kill counts like the medusa, they're nice and all every once in a while. But it kills a lot of people's desire to level normally or anywhere else


It would be kind of cool if there was an NPC that gave you 1 KC quest a day. It would be available to everyone 85+ and would tell you what monster to kill based on your level. Like 85-90, 90-99, 100-110 ect. For example, day 1 all people level 100-110 would go kill x amount of Raydrics, level 111-120 would kill some Isilla for their quest, and people level 85-90 would get a quest to kill skeleton prisoners. And the quest target monster would change on a daily basis. Exp reward wouldn't be big, but not terrible, maybe a low medium. Perhaps the same exp they would gain if they killed 20-30 more of said monster?

Edited by KingOfBabylon, 09 May 2011 - 01:15 AM.

[meaning42]

Find a priest looking for a group, or just ask random people. But don't bring back kill counts like the medusa, they're nice and all every once in a while. But it kills a lot of people's desire to level normally or anywhere else


It would be kind of cool if there was an NPC that gave you 1 KC quest a day. It would be available to everyone 85+ and would tell you what monster to kill based on your level. Like 85-90, 90-99, 100-110 ect. For example, day 1 all people level 100-110 would go kill x amount of Raydrics, level 111-120 would kill some Isilla for their quest, and people level 85-90 would get a quest to kill skeleton prisoners. And the quest target monster would change on a daily basis. Exp reward wouldn't be big, but not terrible, maybe a low medium. Perhaps the same exp they would gain if they killed 20-30 more of said monster?

Uh... If it were like that, I don't think anyone would really bother trying to gather up a party for a single turn in, you spend like 20min trying to assemble the party, then you do the quest in 15min and then it's over. "Hurray, I got 10%!"
I don't really see whats fun about leveling "normally", do you mean grinding? Killing magmarings solo for 6 hours straight? I wouldn't miss it.

[Charon]

Heres an idea I already mentioned a few times, which at a closer observation essentially does give us permanent turnins.

Change share party to work on screen range, while buffing the bonus exp per member to +80% at 2 people, lowering down towards +50% at 8 people, and staying +50% all the way to a 12 party.

This change to how share parties work would make parties preferable.
Parties would be people who actually stay close.
And it would basically be the same as turn ins, except you dont have to walk to an npc or wait for an event and stick to its map/monster.

Along with a change like this, adjusting monsters would really make sense. But I believe this is overdue anyways even without this.

I'm thinking of something along the lines:
All regular monsters HP multiplied by 4
All regular monsters EXP mutliplied by 5

This way some monsters would actually live long enough for more people to start attacking them.

Edited by Charon, 09 May 2011 - 02:19 AM.

[FoxyWoxy]

I prefer other ideas such as adjusting party exp share or custom instances with exp reward. TI's are just quick solves nothing idea, and suck especially more when you're the puller in a 3 puller party getting only portion of the exp as the afk&only priest in party.

[meaning42]

Heres an idea I already mentioned a few times, which at a closer observation essentially does give us permanent turnins.

Change share party to work on screen range, while buffing the bonus exp per member to +80% at 2 people, lowering down towards +50% at 8 people, and staying +50% all the way to a 12 party.

This change to how share parties work would make parties preferable.
Parties would be people who actually stay close.
And it would basically be the same as turn ins, except you dont have to walk to an npc or wait for an event and stick to its map/monster.

Along with a change like this, adjusting monsters would really make sense. But I believe this is overdue anyways even without this.

I'm thinking of something along the lines:
All regular monsters HP multiplied by 4
All regular monsters EXP mutliplied by 5

This way some monsters would actually live long enough for more people to start attacking them.

So, basically, someone with a alt character autofollowing him on maps like Magmarings would get 80% extra exp?

[firzen]

How about no? Permanant turn in quests were retarded. It made it so that the only way to play was questing. Pre renewal was pretty much just gators-goats-grind.

The GMs are working on new things to make partying more interesting, be patient rather than give bad ideas that we know are bad

[meaning42]

I only mobbed on Seals Pre-renewal, now I only mob on Magmarings, big improvement? Meh, not by a whole lot. I do a few quests but only because I need job levels on my Alchemist, which is close to impossible to get without a party or a quest.

[Charon]

So, basically, someone with a alt character autofollowing him on maps like Magmarings would get 80% extra exp?

Small correction of myself, 2 people would get 80% each.
But yes, in places that are safe enough to allow this, you could then leech your own chars while leveling your fast killing character.
Still trying to come up with something that would the best address this issue, but for the time being, that's the basic idea, and people already leech themselves like this on turn in events anyway.

The most balanced I could think of:
1-100%/1=100%
2-160%/2=80%
3-210%/3=70%
4-240%/4=60%
5-275%/5=55%
6-300%/6=50%
7-315%/7=45%
8-320%/8=40%
9-360%/9=40%
10-400%/10=40%
11-440%/11=40%
12-480%/12=40%
Of course only once share works like turnin quests, otherwise its overkill.

Regarding prevention of leeching,
dunno if they could code this, but one way would be for it to give exp to the members who interacted with the monster(casting something on it, hitting it, like the prerenewal tap bonus worked) or a player that did (casting something on someone doing the first, like buffs & heal).

The problem here would be how it would determine the latter. So if someone buffed an hour ago that this wouldnt count. Maybe only buffs/heals that were used on the attacker after they first hit the monster would count. Then for example the priest would have to use at least one skill per monster... but actually the attackers have to do one thing per monster too anyways, and if the priest had no sp he could simply smack the monster once like everyone else.
Any better ideas?

If that's the solution, its not share works on screen range after all, but on tap and support.

So in short, in a share party, you would get a boosted part of the exp if you hit the monster or support the killers at least once in the battle, depending on how many of the other members did, with the numbers from the table above.

Couldnt easily leech your own chars then without resorting to botting right?

Edited by Charon, 09 May 2011 - 04:28 AM.

[meaning42]

I feel as if partys should get more exp then someoen soloing. I don't like to party with people for the reason that I could do it faster and more efficently solo, but if it would get me more exp to play with my wife or witha friend, then it would be a lot more fun then feeling something like: "Oh god, I hate this! He is leeching half my exp! But I can't tell him because it's rude..."

^that is pretty much how I feel in a party right now.
For me a party would actually feel like a good idea if we still harnessed the same exp from monsters, having a penalty for partying isn't exactly encouraging the co-op experience.

But I like what you said about everyone having to be on screen, but I would like to reverse it somewhat.

1 player party > 100% exp/each
2 player party > 100% exp/each
3 player party > 110% exp/each
4 player party > 110% exp/each
5 player party > 120% exp/each
6 player party > 120% exp/each
7 player party > 130% exp/each
8 player party > 130% exp/each
9 player party > 140% exp/each
10 player party > 140% exp/each
11 player party > 150% exp/each
12 player party > 150% exp/each

Wouldn't it be -_-ing awesome to run around in a 12 man party and get great exp? I know I would think so.
Now before you load you flamethrowers, this is just a suggestion, a rough idea put up for suggestion, if you don't like it, fine with me. Thats just what I would do to encourage partying. 12man party in Bio + 150% exp = mind blown?

Edited by meaning42, 09 May 2011 - 04:23 AM.

[Dukeares]

It Kinder hard to find a party these day...a Return for Permanent Turn in quest would be a bless as it would solve the problem of finding a party...i seriously don't want to spend most of my time boringly soloing alone....

[Charon]

Wouldn't it be -_-ing awesome to run around in a 12 man party and get great exp? I know I would think so.
Now before you load you flamethrowers, this is just a suggestion, a rough idea put up for suggestion, if you don't like it, fine with me. Thats just what I would do to encourage partying. 12man party in Bio + 150% exp = mind blown?

Even numbers like that would very likely be fine and not overpowered at all if everything else I wrote above would be applied.

But this is something they could change around to see how it affects partying after they decided to change how it works at the basis.

What I was trying to avoid while coming up with the above table is that, through a too big boost (where every additional member not just gets almost the full exp, but boosts all of it further), it would make everyone do full parties only, which would create situations like where someone wouldnt be motivated to level because he only has 3 people who didnt already join another party to fill spots, while he could get half more exp with 12 people. It's not really a big deal tho.

Rethinking... with the leeching 11 chars problem solved, theres actually really no reason to make the numbers higher than in my previous post.

And like you mentioned, stuff like bio would become a viable option again (they'd still need to adjust those tho, coz they give way too low exp atm)

So a +90% for every additional member (who is interacting with the killing) would work nicely. Or hell simplify things making it +100%, which is everyone getting full exp from something they help defeating.

Then
If you can solo, you can, but you won't mind adding other people, because the only thing that changes is whether they can help at making the monsters die faster, never slowing it down.

Edited by Charon, 09 May 2011 - 04:50 AM.

[Kadnya]

Regarding prevention of leeching:

Is preventing 'abuse' by 1% people enough reason to kill an idea working for the other 99%?

Preventing bot farming nerfed myst case and other cards drop rate to superlow, for example. I don't think that helped much, really.

Prerenewal was not only gators or goats, there were actually faster places if you were ok with spending more supplies in other places. For example, prerenewal you had loli ruri quest, and there were people using that quest, but it didn't stop people killing anubis, or bio or DG and such. I think that a turn in quest could work in renewal too. Just, the rules would have to be like prerenewal too, where you got 100% the monster exp or more... it's really silly when you are usually leveling in one map, then a turn in comes, and instead of just killing the monsters for 100% exp, now you have to kill the monsters+ go to an npc every 10 minutes + get just 85% exp of what you got before the event, for example.

I don't understand the reasoning of removing the monsters exp and not increase the exp reward at least a bit above the target exp, if you were already killing there, there isn't a super event for you. And I don't understand the reasoning of lowering the monster exp and then give the same exp as normal only if you are VIP. If you were nonVIP, you are punished all the time the event lasts, and if you were VIP, you just get the same exp than without the event...

However, I feel that for turn ins in order to work, they need to be done on level restricted maps, on truly harder monsters that take sometime and effort killing and deal at least some damage. Monsters which stay alive at least ~20 seconds when receiving damage from several people, and have some skills and attacks that deal damage you have to pot/heal, maybe one or two scary attacks you have to tank or use safetywall/pneuma... Otherwise, turn ins are just low level charas followinggwinging with a 150 genetic oneshotting or such.

[HRdevil]

I was very happy leveling alone and was making millions and millions of zeny. Turn in events or regular turn ins like pre-renewal makes you be high leveled and Xtremely poor, it feeds the whiner and babies them to a "Oh I only level when there's a turn in event" type of mentality.

TI events is for you to buy HE BM's and feed the Gm's. Try to play the game outside these events, the only classes i feel sorry are the support classes because of the party system which encourages you to solo or to rip off supports $$$ for leeches.

Edited by HRdevil, 09 May 2011 - 04:50 AM.

[meaning42]

Even numbers like that would very likely be fine and not overpowered at all if everything else I wrote above would be applied.

But this is something they could change around to see how it affects partying after they decided to change how it works at the basis.

What I was trying to avoid while coming up with the above table is that, through a too big boost (where every additional member not just gets almost the full exp, but boosts all of it further), it would make everyone do full parties only, which would create situations like where someone wouldnt be motivated to level because he only has 3 people who didnt already join another party to fill spots, while he could get half more exp with 12 people. It's not really a big deal tho.

Rethinking... with the leeching 11 chars problem solved, theres actually really no reason to make the numbers higher than in my previous post.

And like you mentioned, stuff like bio would become a viable option again (they'd still need to adjust those tho, coz they give way too low exp atm)

So a +90% for every additional member (who is interacting with the killing) would work nicely. Or hell simplify things making it +100%, which is everyone getting full exp from something they help defeating.

Then
If you can solo, you can, but you won't mind adding other people, because the only thing that changes is whether they can help at making the monsters die faster, never slowing it down.

Yeah, f-_- supportive characters, the -_-holes doesn't deserve exp.


If you can't tell, I am being sarcastic. Screwing over supportive characters like that isn't cool.

Furthermore, what if people don't want to go farming with a party of only 8 instead of 12? That would be awesome for characters that rarely otherwize gets picked for a party? Like a Bard or a soul linker. If characters like those could tag along and get exp even if they arn't doing much, that would be much better then them suffering like hell because they can't solo very well.

Edited by meaning42, 09 May 2011 - 04:56 AM.

[Charon]

you misunderstood me there.

With interacting I meant (as I wrote in a previous post):
-hit the monster once, melee or skill
-heal/buff one of the people who hits the monster once

thanks for the responses, no one ever really responded to my posts with this idea.
Because of the responses here I further thought about it and the solution became more simple than ever:

In a share party, everyone that interacts with the killed or the killers gets full exp. simple as that, I cant believe it I didn't see this earlier

Edited by Charon, 09 May 2011 - 05:01 AM.

[meaning42]

you misunderstood me there.

With interacting I meant (as I wrote in a previous post):
-hit the monster once, melee or skill
-heal/buff one of the people who hits the monster once

Well, depending on how much they can contribute, would you suggest that if a RK is under the influence of buffs from a AB in the party, the AB will get 100% exp from the monsters that the RK kills and without the buffs/hitting the mosnter, the AB would get a lower amount but still get exp?

If it was like that, I think it would be pretty sweet. I just can't stand the fact that partying drops our exp. Especially since renewal when monsters shift so little in EXP.

Though I can see how it can get a bit buggy and such, like a Bard playing magic strings not getting 100% even though he has the whole team buffed.

Edited by meaning42, 09 May 2011 - 05:08 AM.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I don't see any reason why we can't have classes who support and kill and tank. If everyone can do it, then what's the problem? The support offered by a Sorceror is very different to the support offered by an Arch bishop, so there can still be diversity even though characters are capable of fulfilling multiple roles.

At this point, weaker classes need to get stronger, and overpowered classes need to have some nerfs (And I don't mean knee-jerk nerfs. Nerfs that strip a previously useful move of it's usefullness are bad. I doubt anyone would complain if Mandragora howling were given a cast time, for example. The Genetics could still use their amazing skill to full effect, they would just need to be protected by their guildmates while they charge up for the howl.

Battle Arch bishops should be able to kill people and monsters, maybe not as effectively as a real killer class, but they should be able to use their strengths to offense at some degree of sucess. This goes for all classes. The beauty of RO is that you can make any build you want as you have full control over your stats, and I feel that this should be encouraged.

Characters do not need to be limited and given black-and-white roles.

[meaning42]

I don't see any reason why we can't have classes who support and kill and tank. If everyone can do it, then what's the problem? The support offered by a Sorceror is very different to the support offered by an Arch bishop, so there can still be diversity even though characters are capable of fulfilling multiple roles.

At this point, weaker classes need to get stronger, and overpowered classes need to have some nerfs (And I don't mean knee-jerk nerfs. Nerfs that strip a previously useful move of it's usefullness are bad. I doubt anyone would complain if Mandragora howling were given a cast time, for example. The Genetics could still use their amazing skill to full effect, they would just need to be protected by their guildmates while they charge up for the howl.

Battle Arch bishops should be able to kill people and monsters, maybe not as effectively as a real killer class, but they should be able to use their strengths to offense at some degree of sucess. This goes for all classes. The beauty of RO is that you can make any build you want as you have full control over your stats, and I feel that this should be encouraged.

Characters do not need to be limited and given black-and-white roles.

^
I feel as if this post belongs in another thread.

[Charon]

You mean that interacting with the killer but not the killed would make you get less than full exp?
That would make support classes level slower, while melees with crap dmg would still get full exp, so this would be unfair, unless the melees got reduced exp from doing unnoticeable help, but that would almost bring you back to what we have now.

Now the problem is whether it's possible to implement this. It comes down to the question:
After A interacts with B, does the server now who A was?

Example
When a priest casts Blessing on a RK, does the server know who this Blessing came from afterwards?

Edited by Charon, 09 May 2011 - 05:13 AM.