84 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

Warlocks are not weak. Warlock and sorcerer are both very good and really, sura/RG/RK just need to be nerfed down to their level. They aren't glass canons anymore. once upon a time they were, and in order to give them a function they needed highest DPS. This isn't the case anymore with the ability to get 100+ VIT easily. Its understandable they aren't the highest possible DPS by leaps and bounds anymore and instead do similar damage to the other decent jobs.

Anyway it's really silly that the straw that broke the OP's back is a card that does the same thing as the glorious ring every other lucky box buyer already has.

Edited by Jaye, 13 May 2011 - 04:27 AM.

[Reight]

Anyway it's really silly that the straw that broke the OP's back is a card that does the same thing as the glorious ring every other lucky box buyer already has.

Not everyone's a box buyer, so not everyone had glorious rings. But now everyone will have kafra blossom card. I can understand where he's coming from. Not every warlock tool has Fallen bishop shoes or a +10 glorious SoD in order to play DPS on a class that was originally DPS. If they're meant to be support then give them better survival.

[Kadelia]

I'm sorry but any target worth their weight in salt in WoE had glorious rings or equally good accessories. If the only thing you can kill is newbies without access to glorious rings you have bigger problems than kafra blossom card.

[Wizard]

I'm sorry but any target worth their weight in salt in WoE had glorious rings or equally good accessories. If the only thing you can kill is newbies without access to glorious rings you have bigger problems than kafra blossom card.

^ This...

Well, it is true that nowdays is quite easy to get KvM badges from lucky boxes... either buy buying wpp or using playspan codes so it was quite accessible to the community in general... some people still have thousands of badges still on storage I believe...

With this card, more people will have access to "almost" the same effect but that's not that bad a at all... I believe they used the "against magic effect" since magic is not as common as melee damage so with that in mind, they won't be making this card more "powerful" than it was meant to be... dunno... I hope that's was the logic behind this card.

[sheepmia]

woe without warlock and soc is never a real woe..
They are vry OP
try stasis and vacuum.. stop complaining their DPS.
DPS is another function of casters but not their main function.

Edited by sheepmia, 13 May 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[heyxsean]

lol not true... warlocks are cool to play with xD

I didn't say they weren't cool to play with

Again, sorcs/warlocks are bad, this doesn't change it. Let Haseo live in his delusional world, okay.

[HRdevil]

Warlocks are not weak. Warlock and sorcerer are both very good and really, sura/RG/RK just need to be nerfed down to their level. They aren't glass canons anymore. once upon a time they were, and in order to give them a function they needed highest DPS. This isn't the case anymore with the ability to get 100+ VIT easily. Its understandable they aren't the highest possible DPS by leaps and bounds anymore and instead do similar damage to the other decent jobs.

Anyway it's really silly that the straw that broke the OP's back is a card that does the same thing as the glorious ring every other lucky box buyer already has.

Rk's are going to get nerfed anyway. I haven't really seen with sura or RG. RK will have less HP and CS will get nerfed, i'm not saying its not justified. CS is a stupid skill that cost 30 sp that can overpower anyone if gloomied and its real dumb when someone says "Hey i'm a CS build" when nothing actually increases the dmg of CS other than weapon weight and a little bit of str.RK's will get nerfed but they're not the most OP class. Just take a look at Genetics/Suras/RG's a.k.a 3-2 classes.


@Topic: Glorious ring is obtained with 1200 KvM points, we can assume that every box buyer should have at least 1 but those aren't tradable and these Kafra cards are. So everyone is going to ahve 10% elemental resistance with a chance of 20%. I know glorious rings gives 300 HP 5% aspd and stuff liek that but those extra bonuses doesn't seem useful on some classes and a GX for example would prefer to use rougue treasure.

That is a broken item that should've never been implemented imo.

[Mwrip]

Outside of WoE, the lock is pretty useless. The idea that they're supposed to be glass cannons is fine, but they got the glass part and forgot the cannon. When the TANK effortlessly outdamages the nuker, there is something fundamentally wrong with the balance of your game. I have no idea why Gravity can't see this, but they clearly can't.

Yes, their debuffs and disables give them value in WoE, but most of what they do can be duplicated by other classes that can actually kill things - there's very little functional difference between White Imprisonment and Manhole for instance. They're useful enough to bring along, but that's about it.

When you play melee in Renewal, it's all about how you can move up to the next tier. For casters, it's all about the struggle to get back to where you were at 99 pre-renewal... trying to desperately get to an at all functional level, and knowing nothing you do will ever matter, because no one wants gimped heals or nukes, and melee classes don't depend on any buffs at all except for maybe Kaahi.

It'd be easy to fix too. Increase int's MATK, make the staves stronger, and make MDEF use the PDEF curve instead of arbitrarily making magic damage easier to resist. They won't do it though. I have no idea why, but the goal of Renewal seems to be to drive all of the casters, ranged characters, and support types out of the game, and then wonder why the player count dropped by half.

As for Haseo, yeah, he needs a reality check. Yes, you can get a lock with billions of zeny worth of gear to be competitive with average meleers, but that's not a very good comparison. If you compare casters with meleers, with each using the same price class of gear - not MVP cards and god items vs. average gear, the meleers absolutely wipe the floor with everyone else, massively in PvM, and not as massively, but still by a substanial margin, in WoE and BGs.

[Hrishi]

lol, well I really don't see any problems with the element reduction at all... either way, you can cry a river over it, but there's always a way to get around it... just stop QQing and start thinking...

Right, because getting around a flat 10% reduction of all our damage requires thinking.

I said the same months ago in the Warlock's discussion thread.

I've been saying this ever since renewal was put in

Edited by Hrishi, 14 May 2011 - 07:45 AM.

[antikv]

i think that gravity is intentionally doing this to keep players from playing magic user classes...
think it this way in the lastest free system updates more and more scientific related monster were introduced as well as the job class gun slinger..
isnt it werid that people are skill using magic when guns and robots are now roaming the streets of prontera?...

[Zayik]

@antikv, that's an interesting theory on why magic users are dieing. Its a pity the gunslinger class isn't all that good anymore. Sure, Desperado is an amazing skill, but, other classes can do just as much for less sp. There are little to none gunslingers, let alone ninjas of the expanded class. I think there's an update for KRO to include advanced expanded classes, but, as the matk and cast time formula goes right now, im not sure how much it'll actually help. A 800-1000 lvl 3 freezing spear to a willow with over 110 total int isn't going to cut it. My ninja used to insta-cast 2.1k lvl 3 freezing. I'm afraid to use lvl 10 because of the dreaded cast time

Edited by Zayik, 14 May 2011 - 09:46 AM.

[Mwrip]

i think that gravity is intentionally doing this to keep players from playing magic user classes...
think it this way in the lastest free system updates more and more scientific related monster were introduced as well as the job class gun slinger..
isnt it werid that people are skill using magic when guns and robots are now roaming the streets of prontera?...

There's another possibility. Look through the Kafra shop catalog, imagining you're playing melee. Now do it again as a caster. You'll quickly notice that very, VERY little in there is of value to a caster (other than the stuff that's useful to absolutely everyone), and so it's quite possible that their logic is melee-centered game = more KP spent. This is completely wrong, as forcing caster-heavy players to play melee just sends them to other games, not to more expensive classes. If this is really a concern at corporate, the answer is to simply add a few useful consumables in there for casters, not try to pull the classes out of the game.

RO's world has always been hybrid. Swartzvalt appears fairly early in the manga, and the idea of 2 major nations, one built on magic and the other on tech has been a core idea from before the game set in that world even existed. The Swartzvalt stuff just got massively delayed because the original people that took over RO wasted years on useless culture towns instead of moving the game forward.

It seems quite clear that all non-melee classes intentionally suck though, and I really hope that iRO can get custom changes to address this like jRO did, as it's clear kRO has no interest in fixing the system.

[Scuba]

One problem is how much to increase the power of Warlocks and Sorcerers. Because as mentioned before, people like me and Haseo have access to the best gears out there. I don't believe that the two casting classes were designed to be nukes. They should be crowd control. The problem is, if you buff the crowd control they start wiping guilds alone. If you look at High Wizard pre-renewal, a friend and I exemplified this issue. It was said many times by enemy guilds (high tier) that a stormgust from Ron Burgandy did 5k a tick. People need to be aware that with the right combination of gear and stats AoE damage from Warlocks and Sorcerers can be extremely broken.

[meaning42]

I just wish the developers would stop loving Sura so much.

[Zayik]

While Warlocks and Sorcerers are a prime concern for many RO players, it also worries me that the other spell casters, such as ninjas and ME priests suffer as well. Its not just the cast time, but the matk formula as well. These two need to be changed along with all the skills matk and cast times to balance RO. It's honestly a difficult and huge task to be done, but, it needs to be done. I've played so many great games that could have been even greater if balance was made. It just saddes me that IRO is failing on the balance issues right now. I looked at the mage section of the forums, and people are posting if its even worth making a wizard. I looked at the ninja, and every response towards whether a magic ninja was viable in RO was no. I really hope IRO takes charge and does their own thing, cause from what I've heard, KRO isn't taking much action. Sure, they're changing some skills, but, that won't fix much.

[Viri]

They should have a vote down option like on youtube where if you get voted low enough your post becomes hidden(or they send a ninja to your house to effing kill you, that'd work too)

[Zayik]

Is there a problem with this post Viri? It's a post addressing issues of IRO, if you would like to input something please do. Haha, a ninja. funny. Oh, btw Viri, long time no see!!! It's Ryzou, that Stalker guy(Dark Chaser now)

[Puppet]

Well, I'm just saying, usually nerfing is done for balance reasons when one class has some sort of unfair advantage over others. Warlock isn't by any means an awful class, but at the same time, I don't really see the purpose of reducing the damage output further. Maybe to force more people to play with the supportive skills more? But that's kind of a convoluted explanation for something that was probably "We need to do something about monster magic damage" and they had absolutely no consideration of the fact that players deal magic damage too.

That is poor argument right there Considering how unbalanced Renewal is in general

[Hrishi]

One problem is how much to increase the power of Warlocks and Sorcerers. Because as mentioned before, people like me and Haseo have access to the best gears out there. I don't believe that the two casting classes were designed to be nukes. They should be crowd control. The problem is, if you buff the crowd control they start wiping guilds alone. If you look at High Wizard pre-renewal, a friend and I exemplified this issue. It was said many times by enemy guilds (high tier) that a stormgust from Ron Burgandy did 5k a tick. People need to be aware that with the right combination of gear and stats AoE damage from Warlocks and Sorcerers can be extremely broken.

I have access to whatever gear Haseo has and more (like Hibram shoes), and let me tell you I could put all those gear to better use on a non-magic character with the exception of the shoes. Honestly, if they were not designed to be nukes.. why do we have the HP/survivability of paper. Pre-renewal due to being the only class with AoE damage, it made sense that High Wizards had -_-ty defenses. Come renewal, everyone and their mother can AoE so Warlocks lost their niche, if I might call it that.

Edited by Hrishi, 14 May 2011 - 02:11 PM.

[Mwrip]

One problem is how much to increase the power of Warlocks and Sorcerers. Because as mentioned before, people like me and Haseo have access to the best gears out there. I don't believe that the two casting classes were designed to be nukes. They should be crowd control. The problem is, if you buff the crowd control they start wiping guilds alone. If you look at High Wizard pre-renewal, a friend and I exemplified this issue. It was said many times by enemy guilds (high tier) that a stormgust from Ron Burgandy did 5k a tick. People need to be aware that with the right combination of gear and stats AoE damage from Warlocks and Sorcerers can be extremely broken.

5k/tick isn't as actually all that much. Tanker types can go well over 100k max HP, no one is going to let the entire 10 hits of storm gust connect, and with basically everyone having 100+ vit now, you can pot through it. Of course, anyone who is doing 5k/tick with SG can do a 75k blast with amped Comet, and something ludicrous with Tetra, so it's definitely a cause for concern, particularly if a priest is lexing right before the comet goes off, etc.

PvM and WoE mechanics have always been separate. If the necessary power increases to make the casters not be completely worthless in PvM cause them to become too powerful in WoE, then the WoE mechanics themselves can be tweaked, such as increasing the skill damage reduction, or even making WoE use an alternate MDEF formula. A bit of a nerf to Hibram is also an option, as even by MVP card standards, that thing is rather nuts.

While Warlocks and Sorcerers are a prime concern for many RO players, it also worries me that the other spell casters, such as ninjas and ME priests suffer as well. Its not just the cast time, but the matk formula as well. These two need to be changed along with all the skills matk and cast times to balance RO. It's honestly a difficult and huge task to be done, but, it needs to be done. I've played so many great games that could have been even greater if balance was made. It just saddes me that IRO is failing on the balance issues right now. I looked at the mage section of the forums, and people are posting if its even worth making a wizard. I looked at the ninja, and every response towards whether a magic ninja was viable in RO was no. I really hope IRO takes charge and does their own thing, cause from what I've heard, KRO isn't taking much action. Sure, they're changing some skills, but, that won't fix much.

FS priests and ME priests would both benefit from overall changes to MATK and/or cast times. ME itself is definitely in need of a serious buff though, since there's really no 3rd job equivalent (Judex is NOT going to cut it). I would suggest lowering its fixed cast to 1 second, and increasing its damage by 2% and lowering its variable cast by 1% for every level past 100. Basically, have it morph into a 3rd job skill.

Ninjas are just plain screwed. They're frozen at level 99 until at least 2013, possibly even 2014, so nothing can make them even remotely capable of handling high level stuff. That being said, changing MATK to be mainly granted by gear, and then giving caster ninjas no gear makes them beyond hope even at low level. At the very least, they should release a few weapons for them so they're at least playable in 9x dungeons for now, and then rebalance the whole class when they're finally allowed to break 99.

[IronFist]

Warlocks dont need nerfs, they need mvp gears

Naght Sieger Card [Armor] Increases damage of Ghost element magic by 30%.

Fallen Bishop Hibram Card [Footgear] MATK + 10%, Maximum SP - 50% ,Increases damage inflicted on Demihuman and Angel monster by 50%

High Wizard Card [Headgear]Ignores MDEF of normal monsters. Slows your casting time by 2x. Reduces SP regeneration rate by 100%.
Drain 2000 SP as the headgear is unequipped.

Kiel-D-01 Card [Headgear]Reduces all skill's after-cast delay by 30%.

Entweihen Crothen Card [Armor]MATK + 100.



OR

Brynhild and increases your magic attack power by 10%.
2x medals +10%
Moon Rabit hat +10% or Crown of Deceit

Overall, Warlock are POWERFUL, when equipped right

[Mwrip]

Warlocks dont need nerfs, they need mvp gears

Naght Sieger Card [Armor] Increases damage of Ghost element magic by 30%.

Fallen Bishop Hibram Card [Footgear] MATK + 10%, Maximum SP - 50% ,Increases damage inflicted on Demihuman and Angel monster by 50%

High Wizard Card [Headgear]Ignores MDEF of normal monsters. Slows your casting time by 2x. Reduces SP regeneration rate by 100%.
Drain 2000 SP as the headgear is unequipped.

Kiel-D-01 Card [Headgear]Reduces all skill's after-cast delay by 30%.

Entweihen Crothen Card [Armor]MATK + 100.



OR

Brynhild and increases your magic attack power by 10%.
2x medals +10%
Moon Rabit hat +10% or Crown of Deceit

Overall, Warlock are POWERFUL, when equipped right

The build you list costs more than the 18.8 billion zeny an entire account is capable of holding.

Even the +10 moon rabbit hat, by far the cheapest item listed there, would have a 9 digit price tag.

Also, if you're comparing equal tier players, anyone who spends that much on a character can get a GTB card and completely negate a lock, while still having money left over to get other MVP gear. So yeah, even at that tier of gear, which maybe 3-5 people on each server are at, the casters STILL lose when fighting players of equal wealth.

Edited by Mwrip, 14 May 2011 - 02:57 PM.

[Zayik]

The fact that a Warlocks "fix" is mvp gears kind of says something. Too bad the total matk of some classes are so low even with the more easily obtainable modifiers(medals and crown) make it hard for classes to do decent damage with magic.

[Scuba]

Mwirp you forget i was talking about pre renewal high wizard and that 5k tick is against a 66% reduction scholar. Im saying be hesitant to buff magic damage because if give me too much and I can do the renewal equivalent in a heartbeat where instead of 5k maybe its 10k.

[IronFist]

The build you list costs more than the 18.8 billion zeny an entire account is capable of holding.

Even the +10 moon rabbit hat, by far the cheapest item listed there, would have a 9 digit price tag.

Also, if you're comparing equal tier players, anyone who spends that much on a character can get a GTB card and completely negate a lock, while still having money left over to get other MVP gear. So yeah, even at that tier of gear, which maybe 3-5 people on each server are at, the casters STILL lose when fighting players of equal wealth.

STOP DREAMING MAN.

honestly... you even consider that as a viable option, and here i was thinking a guild would be willing to share equips. because i know for a fact most of these items exists, personally id make it a urgent matter to gear a warlock ASAP before attempting to defend a woe castle.

But while these greedy sura's sucking back on his beer's gfist everything in sight these items will never see the light of arcane power. Yet i suppose its good to dream just dont forget to wake up before you unafk.(trolled)

Edited by IronFist, 14 May 2011 - 09:31 PM.