47 replies to this topic

[meoryou2]

If NPCs start selling the items, I hope they nerf acid bomb a lot then. You might be taken away from MVPing though since MVPing = Bring the class, not the player

Yeah lets make it even LESS effective in PvP / WoE too after all in WoE it already does -75% before any demihuman reductions are factored in.

And for MvPing... 6 digit numbers are nothing to a sura doing 7 digit numbers on any and all MvPs, regardless if they have 1 or 150 VIT..... Hows about you learn about the skills and classes before you start flappin your gums.

[Ralis]

Yeah lets make it even LESS effective in PvP / WoE too after all in WoE it already does -75% before any demihuman reductions are factored in.

And for MvPing... 6 digit numbers are nothing to a sura doing 7 digit numbers on any and all MvPs, regardless if they have 1 or 150 VIT..... Hows about you learn about the skills and classes before you start flappin your gums.

Yet it still remains one of the best attack skills in the game.

If Suras were actually balanced correctly, this wouldn't be an issue. Trust me, you're not the only one that things the entire Monk class as a whole needs a whole lot of tweaking.

Edited by Ralis, 15 May 2011 - 09:58 PM.

[meaning42]

Yeah lets make it even LESS effective in PvP / WoE too after all in WoE it already does -75% before any demihuman reductions are factored in.

And for MvPing... 6 digit numbers are nothing to a sura doing 7 digit numbers on any and all MvPs, regardless if they have 1 or 150 VIT..... Hows about you learn about the skills and classes before you start flappin your gums.

I'm not saying that AD* can bat against Gfist/Asura Striek, but if you compare AD* with Fire Trap or any other main attack from other classes, then AD* is quite damn fine. Just because theres one/two attacks better then AD* doesn't make it bad.
It takes my Chaser a couple minutes to kill Orc Lord while it would take maybe a few seconds for a decent Genetic.


*Acid Demonstraion

[Charon]

I believe they should make NPCs which sell items needed for skills (and nerf any of them if theyre too powerful; balancing skills by rare requirements is the worst way to do it and doesn't work anyway).
And make the items about double of what one would expect them to be worth.
If ROs economy needs anything, it's lots of zeny-vents like this right now anyway.

[meaning42]

I believe they should make NPCs which sell items needed for skills (and nerf any of them if theyre too powerful; balancing skills by rare requirements is the worst way to do it and doesn't work anyway).
And make the items about double of what one would expect them to be worth.
If ROs economy needs anything, it's lots of zeny-vents like this right now anyway.

A decent goldsink would be nice, but on the other hand you are being a total-_- if you nerf such a desired skill like acid demonstration, people have made characters soley for this one skill.
To take that away is like having someone present you with a birthday cake for a hefty price, you work hard to earn the money for that delicious cake only to have it shoved in your face, then you notice that it looked good on the outside but on the inside there is only manoure.

Edited by meaning42, 16 May 2011 - 02:46 AM.

[Charon]

Whoa, read again, I said any that are too powerful, not make all of them useless.
Of course they need to remain stronger than other skills of the same league which dont require items.

Also, these NPCs should be undiscountable like those in the alchemist guild.

Edited by Charon, 16 May 2011 - 05:36 AM.

[Dukeares]

items needed for their skills will be avail from a npc insted of me having to hunt like 8-10 diff monsters just to TRY (and most likely FAIL) to make the items I need ,I find it horrendously stupid how the alch things need non-npc buyable mats to be used.


Maybe they could add them to the npc

The main problem is the fact you basically need 2 of the same class to be effective with one of them.

Nope the problem is that you Dont want to make brewer,yet want to buy your Acid/Bomb/Plant Cheaper than what being Vended by our fellow alchemist.~~ That the Problem

[meoryou2]

Yet it still remains one of the best attack skills in the game.

If Suras were actually balanced correctly, this wouldn't be an issue. Trust me, you're not the only one that things the entire Monk class as a whole needs a whole lot of tweaking.

For MVPing it is ( mostly ) a good attack skill. In WoE it is crap unless you have dual megs and sleips.... and even then cart cannon will out DPS it. The only thing suras seem to need is the GoH only taking 5 spheres instead of consuming all like the descriptions said. that and maybe some kind of rework of lightening ride, it's pretty much the only leveling skill at low levels and doesn't do squat diddly until you hit higher levels /facepalm

I'm not saying that AD* can bat against Gfist/Asura Striek, but if youcompare AD* with Fire Trap or any other main attack from other classes,then AD* is quite damn fine. Just because theres one/two attacks betterthen AD* doesn't make it bad.
It takes my Chaser a couple minutes to kill Orc Lord while it would take maybe a few seconds for a decent Genetic

Uhh more than a FEW seconds unless they have a strings and sacrament slave along. AD already has ~2 second fixed cast and a long ass animation delay while the hits are added up. And my point is the only reasons AD is used pretty much ever was MVP or WoE, and as it stands with renewals higher HP more ranged attacks having EVERYONE stacked against ranged now and the retarded -50% damage against players ON TOP of the WoE reductions makes the skill useless in WoE, and semi decent in MVPing. Suras can pop a ygg berry and do 2-3X the damage for nearly the same price as one acid demo, and thats with neither person having god items or MVP cards.

[Ralis]

Issue with Sura, as demonstrated in one of those pinned threads, is that the class has abilities that stretch to every corner of the triangle. Not only do they have the best attack skill in the game, they also have the best tanking skill and decent support skills.

But this isn't a thread about that class, so I do apologize for bringing it up.

In regards to Acid Bomb, CC may out-DPS it but AB is going to do more damage to certain characters, such as me with my 110 Vit. But even without Acid Bomb, there are plenty of other skills that are pretty damn insane, such as HoM and Thorn Trap.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

farming and making is one of the things that makes alchemists fun 0_0 are you sure you should even be playing this class if you don't enjoy brewing?

[Ardi]

Issue with Sura, as demonstrated in one of those pinned threads, is that the class has abilities that stretch to every corner of the triangle. Not only do they have the best attack skill in the game, they also have the best tanking skill and decent support skills.

But this isn't a thread about that class, so I do apologize for bringing it up.

In regards to Acid Bomb, CC may out-DPS it but AB is going to do more damage to certain characters, such as me with my 110 Vit. But even without Acid Bomb, there are plenty of other skills that are pretty damn insane, such as HoM and Thorn Trap.

please tell me how thorn trap is OP... PLEASE rofl

[Ralis]

As soon as you tell me where I said it was OP. /facepalm

[meoryou2]

please tell me how thorn trap is OP... PLEASE rofl

I don't think he meant OP, and I think he meant Wall of Thorns.... which is too broken and should be disabled in WoE. And I say that as someone who is a genetic.... It's stupidly broken since there is no knockback in WoE so people just take full damage at like 193 ASPD. I have seen guilds that cast it on their own breakers as well as around the emperium so they can't be touched. The emp one I don't know if it was cast on the emp or if they had something like a SC flying kick on top of the emp. Almost no one carries fire weapons / spells to break the wall of thorns becuase most people default fire armor now to counter DB.

In regards to Acid Bomb, CC may out-DPS it but AB is going to do moredamage to certain characters, such as me with my 110 Vit. But evenwithout Acid Bomb, there are plenty of other skills that are prettydamn insane, such as HoM and Thorn Trap.

If AD is killing your RG/RK outside of sac+strings in WoE you are doing something very wrong. My 100+ VIT sorc OUTSIDE blinding mist only gets tickled and the only glorious item it has is the suit, the rest is just standard demi reducs or demi + ranged reducs.

[SisterGoat]

NPCs sell empty bottles, and that's all that needs to be sold. A decent sized WoE guild should have at least one or two dedicated brewers and they aren't difficult to level. Personally I like farming and making stuff since I don't blow all my supplies on WoE.

[Ardi]

I play a genetic too, and as you see he did say THORN TRAP not wall... now wall thats a different story...

[Ralis]

Thanks for the correction, sorry for messing up on the skill name.

Though the fact remains that I never said it was OP, so stop pulling things out of your ass.

[Ardi]

I dunno but saying pretty damn insane and then putting the same description to it as you did Howl kinda implies that you think it is OP...

[Ralis]

Howl just needs a cast time and it would be fine IMO. Once we get the patch to better resist it (and cure it, I believe?) it'll be fine anyways, though. The point was that the cost of a great skill is requiring an item, like Wall of Thorns (I just wrote Thorn Trap again by accident. >_>) requires a Prickly Fruit.

[meoryou2]

Howl just needs a cast time and it would be fine IMO. Once we get the patch to better resist it (and cure it, I believe?) it'll be fine anyways, though. The point was that the cost of a great skill is requiring an item, like Wall of Thorns (I just wrote Thorn Trap again by accident. >_>) requires a Prickly Fruit.

Howling does have a cast time, with 110 base INT and 100 base DEX the cast is ~1-1.5 seconds. But thorntrap / Wall of Thorns aren't the skills we are really complaining about, they are made with the genetic special pharmacy so there are no failures ( you need 10 prickly fruits to make 2-4 thorny plant seeds ), the skills that people want items for mostly are "bomb", "acid terror" "acid bomb", and maybe "marine sphere". All of those skills can be used for leveling ( marine sphere is kinda crap though, hard to use properly and damage is crappy ) but require such ridiculous amounts of items to even TRY to make enough for leveling. They also have a high fail rate on non-dedicated pure brewers, and in the case of the "bomb" skill for bottle grenades it is TWO chances to fail making it.... chance to fail when making the alcohol and chance to fail making the grenade after you made the alcohol. This leaves alchy and bio players basically one crappy way to level until they reach genetic.... cart revo. If they have a pure brewer it is another story, but it is kind of stupid to be required to have 2 of the same class just to make items for the skills the class is supposed to be able to use. Especially when the class has no other decent skills until near endgame ( 100+ 3rd class, we used to have no decent leveling skill that DIDN'T cost our firstborn ).

Having a NPC sell the base stuff for our skills would be a good zeny sink. No one is asking for the NPCs to sell pre-made grenades and stuff, people are asking for NPCs to sell brewing consumables so they don't have to hunt for hours just to fail making 40%+ and wasting the materials they spent all that time hunting. At least with the failures of NPC bought materials that would take the zeny completely out of the market.

[Ralis]

Umm yeaaaahhh I've never seen anyone have a cast time for that skill unless they're Howling'd themselves, but if instant-cast is obtainable that also needs to be fixed, since the entire point of Renewal (I thought) was to make instant-cast unattainable.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

A genetic with orleans gloves and mjolnir and sleips can attain ic fairly fast.

[Ralis]

I could have sworn I've seen Genetics without any God items instant-cast Howling.

[Hrothmund]

The drop penalty was originally intended to give newer players an advantage hunting those items you need so you'd buy them. iRO is just so bot heavy that it didn't work too well, unfortunately.

Its a good idea for a new game where you dont grind to max level in a couple weeks. Also those games drops are mostly only needed by players around the same level so become redundant well before the drop penalties set in anyway.