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I miss the days of Pre-Renewal~


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#1 Droyd

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 04:42 PM

Back then, you were immune to freeze, sleep, stun and stone curse. Now, you can get stunned for 10 seconds, deep sleeped for 8 seconds, frozen, manholed, masqueraded, shadowformed, amanda howled with no way of fighting back. How I miss the days of immunity.

Back then, MVPs were balanced. They were just right. Not too big, not too cold. They were just right. Now, the GMs have made attack mAtk, so magic attacks are rape. How I miss the days of balanced MvPs.

Back them, all classes had their purposes. All skills had their uses. Now, renewal has needlessly killed and nerfed so many skills. Falcoln assault. Matyrs reckoning. Storm Gust. Arrow vulcan. Sonic blow. Now, many skills are ridiculously overpowered. Exceed break. G-Fist. Clashing Spiral. (Any Genetic Skill here). Gate of Heck. Now, a level 99 champ, paladin, sinx, the rapists of pre-renewal, are easily killed and laughed at. How I miss the days of balance.

Back then, we could hunt and kill any monster we tried to, whether we could really do it or not. Now, renewal forces us to kill monsters only in our level range. How I miss the days of freedom.

Back then, the ecnomy was thriving and healthy. Vend items sold easy. Cash came easily. Now, I am a broke noobie with no income.

I miss the days of Pre-Renewal.


Edited by Droyd, 17 May 2011 - 05:20 PM.

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#2 Talvis

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:09 PM

Just be glad there are no longer mvps with 30,000 base attack.
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#3 Kadnya

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:17 PM

Just be glad there are no longer mvps with 30,000 base attack.


Any renewal monster is the same punching bag which doesn't fightback, with a different sprite. Those high attack monsters existed because fighting them is what you do when you attain high leveled gear, reductions, cards, skills, and teamwork.


I'm not glad of superboring monsters anyone can kill without even gearing like... well, like any renewal monster.
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#4 arsn89

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

Back then, you were immune to freeze, sleep, stun and stone curse. Now, you can get stunned for 10 seconds, deep sleeped for 8 seconds, frozen, manholed, masqueraded, shadowformed, amanda howled with no way of fighting back. How I miss the days of immunity.

Back then, MVPs were balanced. They were just right. Not too big, not too cold. They were just right. Now, the GMs have made attack mAtk, so magic attacks are rape. How I miss the days of balanced MvPs.

Back them, all classes had their purposes. All skills had their uses. Now, renewal has needlessly killed and nerfed so many skills. Falcoln assault. Matyrs reckoning. Storm Gust. Arrow vulcan. Sonic blow. Now, many skills are ridiculously overpowered. Exceed break. G-Fist. Clashing Spiral. (Any Genetic Skill here). Gate of Heck. Now, a level 99 champ, paladin, sinx, the rapists of pre-renewal, are easily killed and laughed at. How I miss the days of balance.

Back then, the ecnomy was thriving and healthy. Vend items sold easy. Cash came easily. Now, I am a broke noobie with no income.

I miss the days of Pre-Renewal.



Pre-Renewal very class did have their uses except for one.... Lord Knights. Matyrs Reckoning was always nerfed. Falcon assault was always weak, AV was also always weak. If you died by those skills in WoE, you deserve to suck. Only skills that are supposed to kill you in pre renewal are Sonic blow,Acid Demo, and Gfist. If you died by any other skill please uninstall Ragnarok now.

Dude of course 2nd class are going to be laughed at, even if their 99. Wouldn't you laugh at a 99 1st class back in pre renewal? Things evolve and if your at fit to survive, you deserve to be left behind. The economy was always horrible.

Only thing I see here is a noob who doesn't have what it takes to make it in Renewal. Everyone else who +1 him/agrees with him also falls in that category.
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#5 Viri

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

It's bad when you can stand next to satan morroc not wearing a racial shield and just pot through his damage and fist him repeatedly.
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#6 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:46 PM

I don't. Good riddance I say. Also what? You can still get basic stun/frozen immunity even easier than in pre-renewal.

Players in PvP SHOULD NOT have total immunity to status. If that's the case, then why even bother to try using status at all? That's why the 'advanced' status effects like crystallyse, burning, etc exist. To make status threatening again. Disabling is a big part of WoE now and it's no different than being hit by a kill move. I don't understand why players cry about being disabled but don't seem to mind being killed outright. It amounts to the same thing either way - your character being removed from play to give the opposing team more time to dominate the zone.

As for hard npc's pre-renewal, I can't even solo a lot of high lv mvp's and I'm a high-vit shadow chaser geared up quite well, so what are you talking about? Only some classes can solo mvps, and that hasn't changed from pre-renewal. MVP's don't have as much physical attack now, but it's well known that their magic attack hurts a LOT more.

Pre renewal, not all skills had their uses. There were utterly useless skills that nobody would use. Not much has changed there either. All classes still have their uses, even more so now that every class has at least one very useful skill to rely on. Suras kill people, SC's disable people, RK's spam dragon breath and counter SC's with storm blast, RG's pose as annoying obstacles with reflect damage around the emp, Genetics lay plant traps and mandra howling at key moments, Rangers lay different traps to genetics to add variety to the trap strategy, and warg bite people, Sorcerors have several important supportive and offensive functions, GX break the emp and poison key targets, Warlocks harass with frost misty and use stasis from the portal to disable at choke points. Mechanics explode to clear out a rushing guild, Performers lay down strings, Arch bishops lay Pneuma and support with team heal/team buff, so on so forth.

I think people are just looking for things to complain about and making mountains out of molehills simply for the sake of nostalgia.

All I really miss is lack of a drop and level penalty, really, but I was struggling to level pre renewal and making money was MUCH harder for a newbie without buy shops. Back then on my first character I couldn't even afford pots. Renewal actually added several easy methods for low lv players to make money, including the more convenient placement and tweaking of monsters such as harpies, mandragoras, spores, etc. You also have eden group now, which is more helpful than you might think, and everyone takes it for granted. Those novice fly wings, potions and kafra transport tickets really do help a lot, and the novice training grounds are much better.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 17 May 2011 - 06:10 PM.

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#7 Fibrizzo

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:27 PM

I miss old days when people get banned for typing with colours and giant size letters.
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#8 Heimdallr

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:33 PM

MVPs need to go to the Gym soon.
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#9 Maka

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:41 PM

MVPs need to go to the Gym soon.


What about Arrow Vulcan! What about ARROW VULCAN! D:
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#10 Kadnya

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:42 PM

MVPs need to go to the Gym soon.


Also regular monsters need to. I thought the new water dungeon was supposed to be a hard mode, but I understand that you changed it to be a normal mode dungeon (while the default baylan dungeon is like, baby mode). There is still the need for dungeons for those well geared players with supplies to spend, who are the majority of your playerbase actually. And maybe the need to have dungeon where you need partying, not just soloing. Overlook water dungeon is easily soloable.

I'm really looking forward to the next hard-mode dungeons you implement, because renewal really needs some challenge added to be fun ^^;
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#11 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:44 PM

I certainly wouldn't mind buffed mvps, just as long as you give us alternate methods of hunting the low lv mvps that nobody really cares about. The other day I blew 3 convex mirrors trying to hunt phreeoni, and 3 seconds after he spawned a short walk away from me, a genetic already beat me to him v_v

It's kind of discouraging. I'm at the level now where I want to try my hand at fighting boss monsters, but given the competition it's just really hard and tedious to even get a glimpse at an mvp. Instanced dungeons, summoning, anything like that would be great. Make it so that players still have to put in an effort to face the mvp rather than just encountering it through luck. This would still make the mvps on the field valuable as they are free.

I honestly think perminant mvp summoning in particular would be good for the economy, as it would give the new players more things to sell. It would circulate more mvp items, but runs the risk of being exploited through botting. No big surprise there, mind you.

Also, rare miniboss monsters and mvps need to give huge chunks of exp so they are actually rewarding to hunt for leveling again! Keep in mind that lots of mvps will kill you 3x times with ease if you aren't lucky.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 17 May 2011 - 06:46 PM.

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#12 sairaj88

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:46 PM

MVPs need to go to the Gym soon.


lol :D
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#13 Maka

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:50 PM

Fix Arrow Vulcan... :D
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#14 Heimdallr

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:54 PM

MVPs do give huge chunks of exp. They actual challenge is the problem.

And yes the Byalan dungeon is hard, I ran through it on my lvl 40 fresh made char (no twink gear) and I died ALOT but I also leveled ALOT. Problem is you twinkers have gear that is easily at the power level of 120 + gear. So your little nubcakes is wearing sherman tanks and dropping Howitzer hits on the poor fishies, which is not a reasonable thing to overcome.

However, higher level dungeons have more openings for taking high level gear into account as the overall powerlevel of the monsters is made appropriate. It should easily get the monster HP and damage mods to be more than 1 shot enabled, which will make a large difference for many characters in challenge level.
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#15 Heimdallr

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:55 PM

Fix Arrow Vulcan... :D


When I used it, it fired arrows and did damage to the monster, is there something else you want it to do? If it is a cast time issue, then state that, and be specific on what is more appropriate for it.
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#16 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:57 PM

They don't give big enough exp chunks >.<;;

A lot of 3rd class characters won't even notice the exp given by MVPs. It should be comparible to a monster turn in quest in that you really get a worthwhile boost of exp for killing a BOSS.

clearly the dev team's views on 'good' EXP and the player's view is very different, haha.

Also, pretty sure the issue with arrow vulcan is that it does really low damage by renewal standards and is therefore not worth wasting arrows on? If you compare it to other single-target damage skills like clashing spiral or Cross Impact either way, it's not quite so good for a skill that costs items to perform, and performers could benifit from having a bit more power.

I always got the impression that arrow skills were meant to be fast and powerful because of their arrow catalyst, like Double Strafe back in pre-renewal. Arrow vulcan is sort of a buffed up double strafe, at least in concept. If it's damage won't rise, then perhaps make it come out a lot faster so it can be spammed at a threatening speed?

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 17 May 2011 - 07:01 PM.

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#17 Fibrizzo

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:58 PM

MVPs do give huge chunks of exp. They actual challenge is the problem.

And yes the Byalan dungeon is hard, I ran through it on my lvl 40 fresh made char (no twink gear) and I died ALOT but I also leveled ALOT. Problem is you twinkers have gear that is easily at the power level of 120 + gear. So your little nubcakes is wearing sherman tanks and dropping Howitzer hits on the poor fishies, which is not a reasonable thing to overcome.

However, higher level dungeons have more openings for taking high level gear into account as the overall powerlevel of the monsters is made appropriate. It should easily get the monster HP and damage mods to be more than 1 shot enabled, which will make a large difference for many characters in challenge level.


I leveled my swordie 40 into knight 68 in 3 hours and I died only 1 time when I was mobbed trying to arrive last level. Only wearing eden gears and healing with novice potions.

I guess you are a newbie Posted Image
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#18 HRdevil

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:00 PM

Shut up and level up so you can be immune to MOST of the status effects.
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#19 Ardi

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:05 PM

the skill isnt good enough to deserve a cast time (do you want gypsys/minstrels to use songs to level or ds?)
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#20 Maka

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:08 PM

When I used it, it fired arrows and did damage to the monster, is there something else you want it to do? If it is a cast time issue, then state that, and be specific on what is more appropriate for it.


I did all weekend long. Refer to http://forums.warppo...l-class-please/

Yes it's the cast time issue. A shorter cast time would be most appropriate since that is our attack skill as a gypsy. Not Double Strafe. Arrow Vulcan! Why make a skill totally useless? I would like to see an instant cast or almost instant cast but I'm willing to settle on anything that doesn't come close to what it is now.

What I want to know is why the cast time became so long? What was game breaking about Arrow Vulcan before?

Edited by Maka, 17 May 2011 - 07:10 PM.

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#21 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:20 PM

Unfortunately, making a change to a skill like this probably means they have to contact HQ about it, and we all know how that usually goes.
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#22 MizunoAoi

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:22 PM

MVPs do give huge chunks of exp. They actual challenge is the problem.

And yes the Byalan dungeon is hard, I ran through it on my lvl 40 fresh made char (no twink gear) and I died ALOT but I also leveled ALOT. Problem is you twinkers have gear that is easily at the power level of 120 + gear. So your little nubcakes is wearing sherman tanks and dropping Howitzer hits on the poor fishies, which is not a reasonable thing to overcome.

However, higher level dungeons have more openings for taking high level gear into account as the overall powerlevel of the monsters is made appropriate. It should easily get the monster HP and damage mods to be more than 1 shot enabled, which will make a large difference for many characters in challenge level.


+1 I did the same.


When I used it, it fired arrows and did damage to the monster, is there something else you want it to do? If it is a cast time issue, then state that, and be specific on what is more appropriate for it.


+1 Because this is the character I took through the Overlook dungeon.
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#23 Mwrip

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:38 PM

I leveled my swordie 40 into knight 68 in 3 hours and I died only 1 time when I was mobbed trying to arrive last level. Only wearing eden gears and healing with novice potions.

I guess you are a newbie Posted Image


I'm guessing whatever Heim used, it wasn't melee.
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#24 Maka

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 10:04 PM

Unfortunately, making a change to a skill like this probably means they have to contact HQ about it, and we all know how that usually goes.


What happened to them getting the ability to make changes or something without HQ's permission. I remember them saying something along those lines a long time ago.

If the change makes most players happy and won't break the game, then why is it such a hard thing to do? Isn't that the point? For players to be happy and enjoy playing the class they chose?

Edited by Maka, 17 May 2011 - 10:06 PM.

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#25 lainee

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 10:57 PM

When I used it, it fired arrows and did damage to the monster, is there something else you want it to do? If it is a cast time issue, then state that, and be specific on what is more appropriate for it.


That's pretty disappointing Heim. There have been countless threads and posts about why Arrow Vulcan is unusable (Specific Renewal Feedback and elsewhere), It was also brought up in the last video chat - and you still don't know what the problem is? o.O It's the cast time. a)you can't get the skill off without a phen b)due to the time it takes to get the skill off (assuming you get it off), you might as well use a bow and double strafe (a first job archer skill) as the DPS is much higher the AV (a Trans skill). The skill is not alone with these problems. AV, FAS etc at 99 dex it needs to have no (or at least a very low) cast time. How many times must this be said?

Edited by lainee, 17 May 2011 - 10:59 PM.

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