26 replies to this topic

[DieNasty]

This is not a rant, but is a request for GM to look into the issue. Last night I've used a total of 150 millions + an additional $20 dollars trying to get my pantie [1] (or should I say panties) from a +4 to +5. My first Pantie [1] was carded and was at +4. I then tried to upgrade it from a 4 to a 5 using enriched elunium and it failed. So my first thought was that today is just another unlucky day for me. With a broken carded Pantie and feeling like , I then head back to prontera to purchase 2 additional slotted panties (20M each at that time). Headed back to the upgrade NPC and used my 4/5 enriched elunium in an attempt to get my 2nd Pantie from a +4 to a +5. Again it broke going from 4 to 5. I then tried the 3rd Pantie and it too failed. Being persistent and stupid, I then went back to pron to purchase 2 more slotted panties. The 4rd and 5th tries also failed. Lost 100 million worth in the five panties, upgrade fees, and 20 million in enriched ores. Last night was a very crappy day for me and because of these failed upgrade attempts I will never ever make another attempt to upgrade my equipments again.

In short: I have made 5 attempts to upgrade 5 panties from +4 to +5 and they all failed. Possibly bugged. Wanting to get the word out. If your upgrade attempts failed the 1st or 2nd time--STOP. Will saves you a hefty amount.

[DarkwingGT]

I'm pretty sure everyone will just tell you that you're unlucky and that's just how it goes. What people really should be asking is if such a thing should be allowed? I understand that the devs will probably say the reason things break is because it helps drain from the economy. What they don't understand is the flip side. For example, I ended up breaking a couple Red Pirate Bandanas trying to get to +5, and this is WITH enriched ore. I did manage to get one to +5 but yeah, never again. I will never buy ore from the Kafra shop because quite frankly why bother? Sure, it's bad luck, blah blah blah, but so what? At this point it's just legalized gambling and the house is always winning.

Now on the other, maybe consider putting a special ore that guarantees success on sale in the kafra shop. Make it whatever you feel is appropriate (maybe something like 200 points an ore?) and maybe even attach a high zeny cost, like 100k an upgrade. Now that I'd buy. Heck, I'd even be ok if it only worked in the +4 -> +7 range.

[Daray]

I'd like to point out to you that at the moment there is a "100% sure +5" upgrade using the Boxter NPC in second floor of Eden.
Bring 1 pop corn hat or piggie bank, talk to boxter, take the equipment option, select either pop corn hat or piggie bank option, select +5 upgrade and voila +0 to +5, 100% certain.

[DieNasty]

That is true; however, the iro wiki page stated that upgrading armors using enriched elu from 4 to 5 is 90% success rate. If this is bugged then it needs to be looked into or removed so that people will not loose their hard earned zenies .

[DarkwingGT]

And this is a special event. I'm talking about a permanent basis. Also, what about +6 or +7? I'm pretty sure nothing guarantees those.

[Viri]

It's not gambling you get exactly what you paid for. Better rates. If you wanna argue that enriched has the same rate as oridecon even after 500 attempts at just 4=>5 it'll become extremely apparent that it is not. Yeah I broke 3 level 4 weapons going 5=>6 in a row which was pretty frustrating. 4th attempt finally got +7 tho. There has to be a range where gear can break to pull gear out of the market. Generally going 5 6 and 7. Right now its just going 6 and 7.

[DarkwingGT]

It's not gambling you get exactly what you paid for. Better rates. If you wanna argue that enriched has the same rate as oridecon even after 500 attempts at just 4=>5 it'll become extremely apparent that it is not. Yeah I broke 3 level 4 weapons going 5=>6 in a row which was pretty frustrating. 4th attempt finally got +7 tho. There has to be a range where gear can break to pull gear out of the market. Generally going 5 6 and 7. Right now its just going 6 and 7.

That's not true. That's like saying a lottery ticket isn't gambling, because I got exactly what I paid for, the lottery ticket. I'm paying for a chance. That's gambling by any definition.

Again I'm reminded of how this game wants to actually stop new players from enjoying it. Great, you have millions or even billions of zeny and tons of gear in the bank. What about the new people who are lucky to scrape out the 2k needed to warp somewhere? This game has tons of money sinks that are pretty brutal to people who are just starting or just returning. It's a bit of a catch 22 though because the people who have been around for a while and the bots have devastated the economy by mass inflation, so any efforts to combat that basically means the rest of us get to eat dirt.

Edited by DarkwingGT, 23 May 2011 - 09:49 AM.

[brokenguy]

I'm pretty sure everyone will just tell you that you're unlucky and that's just how it goes. What people really should be asking is if such a thing should be allowed? I understand that the devs will probably say the reason things break is because it helps drain from the economy. What they don't understand is the flip side. For example, I ended up breaking a couple Red Pirate Bandanas trying to get to +5, and this is WITH enriched ore. I did manage to get one to +5 but yeah, never again. I will never buy ore from the Kafra shop because quite frankly why bother? Sure, it's bad luck, blah blah blah, but so what? At this point it's just legalized gambling and the house is always winning.

Now on the other, maybe consider putting a special ore that guarantees success on sale in the kafra shop. Make it whatever you feel is appropriate (maybe something like 200 points an ore?) and maybe even attach a high zeny cost, like 100k an upgrade. Now that I'd buy. Heck, I'd even be ok if it only worked in the +4 -> +7 range.

hhhmm no, no more handing out freebies for real money.

I would not say it's gambling but more like a high risk investment. If it goes through than you would gain something of huge value, if it does not then you'll lose your investment.

[DarkwingGT]

hhhmm no, no more handing out freebies for real money.

I would not say it's gambling but more like a high risk investment. If it goes through than you would gain something of huge value, if it does not then you'll lose your investment.

Gambling and investing really are two sides of the same coin. As for not handing out power for money, the Kafra shop clearly breaks that rule in many ways. No point in nitpicking in how it does it.

[Heimdallr]

You can buy one of those hats from another player with zeny and upgrade to +5 safely. I personally have choice profanities when gear breaks at 4-5, but it does happen. I don't know why you were especially cursed when trying the 4 -> 5 I know the enriched does work better, but it isn't assured, but 4 failures is a statistical anomoly (but still possible).

[Jimmyawake]

Back during the RWC upgrading event for valk gear. I was able to make a +9RWC with my second attempt. Afterwords i proceeded to break 16 RWCs. I beleive 13 of those broke going from +4 to +5.

Also i just got my first KVM weapon and upgraded it to +5 with Boxster lady. I am not going to risk upgrading it until im able to get another 2000 kvm badges.

[ensignfluke]

In short: I have made 5 attempts to upgrade 5 panties from +4 to +5 and they all failed. Possibly bugged. Wanting to get the word out. If your upgrade attempts failed the 1st or 2nd time--STOP. Will saves you a hefty amount.

Unless you have money to waste and are willing to lose it, don't bother upgrading past the safe limit. I have similiar luck as you so I just don't bother.

[Ultimate]

I think the pirate hats are a very unlucky form of getting additional experience! Cost me 5 red pirates hats (including the one that I got to +7). Was definitely worth it, but I broke 4 at +5 to +6, very tricky stuff. Your best bet is to go all items +5, then try all for +6, then all for +7. Throw in a few duds like formal suit, crappy lvl 4 weapons (scalpel) etc, and break those first. It cost about 5 times more in elu but that's how I've always gone, and at the end of the day you don't lose all your expensive gears.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

Back during the RWC upgrading event for valk gear. I was able to make a +9RWC with my second attempt. Afterwords i proceeded to break 16 RWCs. I beleive 13 of those broke going from +4 to +5.

Also i just got my first KVM weapon and upgraded it to +5 with Boxster lady. I am not going to risk upgrading it until im able to get another 2000 kvm badges.

I did the same, but I got mine +7 because I like to take chances =w=

[iCare]

The max upgrade we can get is +20. Can we atleast make +5 or +6 safe upgrade now?
And does +20 will be attainable anytime soon? Like 10m per upgrade at 0.2% chance without breaking or degrading ur gear! Thats true luck!

[AtlasThunderbeef]

a 0.005 chance of getting your weapon +15 or +20 for 150k per attempt. Now that would be a zeny sink.

[TrueMaster]

Yesterday i broke 11 lvl 4 weapons and none of them made it to +6. this was on regular elu and all but that it just extreme bad luck. The first 7 i tried a few went to +5 and broke at +6. Then, i tried 4 more a couple hours later and they all broke trying +5.

[DieNasty]

Yesterday i broke 11 lvl 4 weapons and none of them made it to +6. this was on regular elu and all but that it just extreme bad luck. The first 7 i tried a few went to +5 and broke at +6. Then, i tried 4 more a couple hours later and they all broke trying +5.

Ouch man. How much did you loose total?

[TrueMaster]

Ouch man. How much did you loose total?

Not any where near as much as you did but prolly like 10-20m cause i refuse to do the calculation on what I lost. It was all hunted stuff so i duno i'm trying not to really check ragial. Not that that is a ton of zenny but the luck was just so damn lousy that it made me pist off at the game. Yesterday hollen was drunk i swear it.

[Ultimate]

+9 to +10 should be 50% with HD. that would be rewarding us for our efforts for sure.

as for the algorithm, here it is:

(item) + (elu x4) = (+4 item) + a lot of luck

Edited by Ultimate, 24 May 2011 - 01:10 PM.

[DarkwingGT]

Honestly I'm a bit confused on why things break anyhow. From what I can gather, removing gear doesn't really affect much compared to removing zeny, and breaking gear doesn't really remove zeny from the economy, just shuffle it around.

[Shinjin6]

Seriously, Darkwing?

If items never broke, what would people sell? What would be the point of hunting equipment beyond the first one you ever get? Suddenly all these armors and weapons would start popping up and have nowhere to go. Everything actually worth anything in this game would lose value, and so would selling upgraded items, why pay others to do it when you have absolutely zero risk yourself?

I get it, you want to +20 all your items, but that doesn't work for the game.

Can you believe for well over five years people upgraded purely on normal elu/ori alone? Nobody complained then, and +8's and +9's were still made.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

Update: Shinjin6, you beat me to it :j



It's about gaining an edge.

If both you and your opponent are the same, same class same everything.

You have a +7 weapon and your opponent has a +0 weapon, you're gonna do more damage.


High Risk; High Reward.

It's one of the few aspects that have that in the game now, and they keep reducing it. Granted we have a max of +20, but that's very far out there.
Some are willing to pay a lot for it, others are willing to go great lengths to acquire their weapon and upgrade it to gain max bonuses.


If all gear didn't break at all, upgraded gear wouldn't be worth anything. It would be worth real money and that would make it valuable only to you.

Why would someone want to buy a +10 katar for milions of zeny, when they can buy a +0 katar and upgrade it themselves?

It's all about the edges and getting ahead of others. Well. Mostly.

Edited by AtlasThunderbeef, 24 May 2011 - 03:50 PM.

[DarkwingGT]

Update: Shinjin6, you beat me to it :j



It's about gaining an edge.

If both you and your opponent are the same, same class same everything.

You have a +7 weapon and your opponent has a +0 weapon, you're gonna do more damage.


High Risk; High Reward.

It's one of the few aspects that have that in the game now, and they keep reducing it. Granted we have a max of +20, but that's very far out there.
Some are willing to pay a lot for it, others are willing to go great lengths to acquire their weapon and upgrade it to gain max bonuses.


If all gear didn't break at all, upgraded gear wouldn't be worth anything. It would be worth real money and that would make it valuable only to you.

Why would someone want to buy a +10 katar for milions of zeny, when they can buy a +0 katar and upgrade it themselves?

It's all about the edges and getting ahead of others. Well. Mostly.

Actually that's not true. Because if there was a very high zeny cost to upgrade as the item gets higher (and remember, it can still fail, just not break, and nothing says we can't have a scaling cost on upgrading), then there is still a major risk between +5 and +10. As for why would someone pay zeny for a +10 katar vs upgrade it themselves, that's the point. You're just shuffling zeny around the economy when you have player shops, not removing it. The point is to get them to get the +0 katar and dump the zeny in to the upgrade costs, which actually removes the zeny from the economy. Basically this is a method to battle inflation by removing currency from the market.

As for the "Well everyone will just have everything" comment, that's merely a question of time rather capability. There isn't a finite amount of gear possible. People can always get more.

I forgot to write in my post that my supposition was that mass inflation was a significant issue because it's a massive issue to drawing in new players. When someone new starts and pulls together a few 1000 zeny after a few hours playing and goes to Prontera, they see everything priced at 1 mil and higher, it's disheartening. But hey, maybe it's not an issue.

[Lambor]

...statistical anomoly (but still possible).

Case and point. Everything evens out over time. So...if a lot of successes happen from +4 -> +5, then a lot of failures will happen too. It's just a matter of time.

When you consider how many people upgrade in one day at that NPC, I highly doubt that you've found a bug with upgrading. I remember going 4 -> 5 -> 4 -> 5 -> 4 -> 5 -> 4 -> 5. But then there are also people that go 4 -> 5, 4-> 5, 4 -> 5, 4 -> 5, 4 -> 5