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#26 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:39 PM

We are not talking about KVM Fist here, all Sura players are suffering for "PVM" and obviously not all new Suas these days have +9 KVM Fist to auto cast Zen with Fury, sigh could we just leave our Zen as it is before coz really as you see more and more ppl will just post and complain here about this "sudden" sucky change you guys done after maint... /sigh

Zen>Fury>Snap is essential in mob leveling for us Sura players... /e5
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#27 Heimdallr

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:43 PM

We will be reviewing several of the options that are presented here. KVM being 1 and some of the other skills being 2.

Mobbing is not an intended effect of any class. If Kahii heal could be easily changed to only do 1 per 5 seconds it would have happened long ago..

The game was not meant for mobbing, that is where all of you have your thinking wrong. You get away with it, doesn't mean it is intended. So saying that zen is needed to mob doesn't really make me see the problem... Those of you that are stating your cases about how you have issues with your early sura levels make more sense to me than the excuse that mobbing is harder.

Like I said already, it will get changed next maintenance.
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#28 FoxyWoxy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:44 PM

Just tested zen I gotta say after finding a new lvling spot for my sura, this sucks! And all because some people have kvm fists? What's more I dont even WoE on my sura!
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#29 Unifan

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:47 PM

heim why nerfisng skills, why not buff the ones that isnt powerfull lol. you nerf the skill that champ/sura needed the most. the cast time is already terrible without sacrament, and now u added a 2sec delays. what are u trying to achieve here? no snap should not be nerfed also, the thing u need to nerf is FLYING KICK DURING WOE, that :wink: is the most stupidest thing EVER. u see these shadow chasers with gay ass flying kick and deadly infection while they are leeched poison, poisoning everybody. no snap should not have a nerf, cause if u nerf snap, u should also nerf backslide/frontslide/flyingkick/Genetic Cart Boost/ all those gay ass skills that makes em hard to target. i dnt want to go to pvp with my sphere absorb, and have other sura killing me while im casting zen and waiting for the delay to :wink: of
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#30 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:50 PM

Try this terrible delay mobbing nameless and bio, you will see how horrible a Sura's life levelin with our new delay in our Zen... /sigh
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#31 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:53 PM

We either, whatever class dont want this kind of mobbing that you said not "intended", it is the horrible grindy EXP that pushes ppl to go on solo mobbing to gain decent EXP /swt
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#32 Aeolus

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:57 PM

We will be reviewing several of the options that are presented here. KVM being 1 and some of the other skills being 2.

Are you joking? I like RO for how it was, fast paced. You're just slowing the game down once again. This has been the worst nerf you guys have implemented yet. If you're looking to nerf more things that everyone complains about why not nerf Storm Blast? I mean honestly I would rather it just be how it has been and have Storm Blast and Zen be the same as they have been. But if you're going to seriously cripple one major killing class in woe then why not do it to others? Oh wait let's listen to everyone on the forums who doesn't actually participate in large scale woe once again. While we're at it why don't we nerf Suicidal Destruct, Deep Sleep Lullaby, Manhole, Shadow Form, Dragons Breath, Tetra Vortex, (Can't say anything about rangers because they're terribad), Oblivion curse (So it doesn't last 4 minutes), (AB's are already nerfed to hell and back), Shield Reflect hacks, Exceed break (Which 1 shots...and has a very small cast time), Pinpoint attack (Which has no delay with high aspd and can break gear...while doing massive damage), Diamond Dust (Because that frozen status is just way too over powered), Mandragora Howling (...), Cart Cannon, Acid Bomb, Harmonize (Because I don't think things should get rid of my god item effects), Gloomy (Just because everyone complains about this), Deep Sleep Lullaby (Because there is no way to get resistance to it).

All of this is pretty sarcastic, but some of it has truth to it.

I mean come on Suras don't even have that high of an HP pool and they have no AoE killing power whatsoever. You have to go after one person at a time and having this nerf on zen is just killer. Suras are not OP at all, even with 'elite items' suras still have problems. Mainly the whole living thing. Half of the classes have a reflect which can kill you if you fist them. All of the classes can use hide to get away from GoH.

Anyways, I'm done with this. There is no point to this nerf at all.
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#33 Unifan

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:58 PM

We will be reviewing several of the options that are presented here. KVM being 1 and some of the other skills being 2.

Mobbing is not an intended effect of any class. If Kahii heal could be easily changed to only do 1 per 5 seconds it would have happened long ago..

The game was not meant for mobbing, that is where all of you have your thinking wrong. You get away with it, doesn't mean it is intended. So saying that zen is needed to mob doesn't really make me see the problem... Those of you that are stating your cases about how you have issues with your early sura levels make more sense to me than the excuse that mobbing is harder.

Like I said already, it will get changed next maintenance.


if you say the game is not meant for mobbing, why the hell you guys added TI event with 10x spawn rate? looks like to me this game are prety much mob killing grindfest to lvl. some class has an aoe skills, and can kill mob with it, since they can kill mob, then why not mobbing and kill them? the only way for sura to lvl is mob and kill, but to do that they need to cast all sorts of skill and repeatedly casting zen. you've took away the main skills of the class, and hopefully it wont be permanent
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#34 Trixdee

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:58 PM

I say no to being unfair to any class, whether I get beat up by it in WoE or not!!
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#35 Diarka

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:58 PM

and why next maintenance...as i said before,we have an experience event right now....so suras are going to suffer for this? and btw, mobbing is needed to lvl..hence this game is a lvl up game.
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#36 Aeolus

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:01 PM

Like I said already, it will get changed next maintenance.

Wtf? Just go in and change it back. Have an emergency maintenance like you would do for anything else that is this game changing. Like people have pointed out you are screwing with their leveling.
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#37 Ryukke

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:01 PM

put delay on fury or put 50% fixed cast time or something on +9kvm fist.
please for the love of god dont put delay on snap. if that happens, its either time to find a new class to play or quit.
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#38 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:10 PM

I guess we will just wait and suffer while exp event goin on til next week fellas... /sigh
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#39 Diarka

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:11 PM

Wtf? Just go in and change it back. Have an emergency maintenance like you would do for anything else that is this game changing. Like people have pointed out you are screwing with their leveling.


please do this, i wanna level my sura. If you guys care about your customer. which I'm having a doubt about.
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#40 Aeolus

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:11 PM

We will be reviewing several of the options that are presented here. KVM being 1 and some of the other skills being 2.

Mobbing is not an intended effect of any class. If Kahii heal could be easily changed to only do 1 per 5 seconds it would have happened long ago..

The game was not meant for mobbing, that is where all of you have your thinking wrong. You get away with it, doesn't mean it is intended. So saying that zen is needed to mob doesn't really make me see the problem... Those of you that are stating your cases about how you have issues with your early sura levels make more sense to me than the excuse that mobbing is harder.

Like I said already, it will get changed next maintenance.

Heim next time you want to make one of these game changing nerfs or buffs can you just put it to a vote at least? There are things called polls so we can see if people would rather have the nerf or not have it. At least then we would have a number on how many people support the idea and how many people dislike the idea.
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#41 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:13 PM

Yea, we should have some POLL VOTINGS before putting sudden changes in-game without even consulting and getting ideas from the "Players". /no1
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#42 weaseI

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:22 PM

Love the Zen delay but please don't change snap.
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#43 SirDillhole

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:38 PM

We will be reviewing several of the options that are presented here. KVM being 1 and some of the other skills being 2.

Mobbing is not an intended effect of any class. If Kahii heal could be easily changed to only do 1 per 5 seconds it would have happened long ago..

The game was not meant for mobbing, that is where all of you have your thinking wrong. You get away with it, doesn't mean it is intended. So saying that zen is needed to mob doesn't really make me see the problem... Those of you that are stating your cases about how you have issues with your early sura levels make more sense to me than the excuse that mobbing is harder.

Like I said already, it will get changed next maintenance.


I still can't understand why the-_- you guys would AGAIN-_- up a once great game!

Seriously, the fact that you guys just do things that DOESN'T HELP the game is just baffling!

I say no to being unfair to any class, whether I get beat up by it in WoE or not!!


Huh? You don't even WoE... >.>
Even if you do, you just AFK...

Edited by SirDillhole, 26 May 2011 - 09:38 PM.

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#44 Trixdee

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:39 PM

I don't right now. I plan on WoEing again when I'm 130ish :wink:
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#45 Trixdee

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:39 PM

ugh..darn lag making me double post :wink:

Edited by Trixdee, 26 May 2011 - 09:40 PM.

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#46 Clogon

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:18 PM

Please stop asking Heim to change 3rd class skills and expect him not to get sued by kRO. <.<

Now on to Zen:
Is GT gain really not enough for you guys? I don't understand how it is unreliable at regaining spheres, please enlighten me. I understand that this skill is very essential at getting spheres quickly but has any of you leveled a baby Sura who doesn't have access to this skill? I can see this being an issue for lvl 100~120 suras. But with energy gain and summon spirit spheres together wouldn't it be enough to get 5 spheres quickly?

Lvl 3 energy gain gives 25% chance of getting spirit spheres when it or getting hit. So if a mob of 4 hits you, you will get 1 sphere on average. You hit them with an AoE skill, that's another sphere. Mob more get more spheres. If you already have 3 spheres, casting 2 Summon Spirit spheres is faster than the old Zen. The only problem now is that you have to use more pots while tanking the mob to get more spheres which won't be much longer than casting zen before the nerf depending on the mob. The only reall change I can see here is that you ahve to use GT engergy gain.

For those of you who MVP, You DO NOT need to Zen->Fury->Zen-> GFist if you have rising dragon lvl 5 or higher on on. Fury only consumes 5 spheres, Zen gives you MAX spheres, Rising dragon 5 buff allows you to have 10 spheres max. Zen = 10 spheres, Fury (-5 spheres) = 5 sphers left just enough for GFist. Do you guys really MVP competitively before you are jlvl 25?

I don't know many sura's in the 100~120 range that are online atm so I can't really discuss with them what they think about the change. But for me it seems that the only difference in leveling is being forced to use more pots (tough for new players) and requiring you to get GT Energy Gain 3 so lvling from 100~109 will be quite tough before you get this buff.


Onto +9 KVM fist:
If this is the only cause of the issue, then put the delay on Fury instead.


Edit:
@Heimdallr:
I don't think you should remove this "test" on tuesday's maint but on thursday's instead. This way you will get more people trying to level with this change out. As most suras will just stop trying to level and not try to adapt and actually see if this balances out the class or not.


@Trixdee:
Nerfs are required for balancing else every class will just become who can click the fastest and 1shot the other.

Edited by Clogon, 26 May 2011 - 10:22 PM.

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#47 AtlasThunderbeef

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:24 PM

You kinda have to mob to get any decent exp now though..
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#48 iCandy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:29 PM

TO ALL SURAS QQing.

Try playing a Performer class then QQ if youre not OP.


guys, please... almost all of your skills can 1 hit KO any player/monster... nuff said...

Edited by iCandy, 26 May 2011 - 10:30 PM.

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#49 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:31 PM

Please stop asking Heim to change 3rd class skills and expect him not to get sued by kRO. <.<

Now on to Zen:
Is GT gain really not enough for you guys? I don't understand how it is unreliable at regaining spheres, please enlighten me. I understand that this skill is very essential at getting spheres quickly but has any of you leveled a baby Sura who doesn't have access to this skill? I can see this being an issue for lvl 100~120 suras. But with energy gain and summon spirit spheres together wouldn't it be enough to get 5 spheres quickly?

Lvl 3 energy gain gives 25% chance of getting spirit spheres when it or getting hit. So if a mob of 4 hits you, you will get 1 sphere on average. You hit them with an AoE skill, that's another sphere. Mob more get more spheres. If you already have 3 spheres, casting 2 Summon Spirit spheres is faster than the old Zen. The only problem now is that you have to use more pots while tanking the mob to get more spheres which won't be much longer than casting zen before the nerf depending on the mob. The only reall change I can see here is that you ahve to use GT engergy gain.

For those of you who MVP, You DO NOT need to Zen->Fury->Zen-> GFist if you have rising dragon lvl 5 or higher on on. Fury only consumes 5 spheres, Zen gives you MAX spheres, Rising dragon 5 buff allows you to have 10 spheres max. Zen = 10 spheres, Fury (-5 spheres) = 5 sphers left just enough for GFist. Do you guys really MVP competitively before you are jlvl 25?

I don't know many sura's in the 100~120 range that are online atm so I can't really discuss with them what they think about the change. But for me it seems that the only difference in leveling is being forced to use more pots (tough for new players) and requiring you to get GT Energy Gain 3 so lvling from 100~109 will be quite tough before you get this buff.


Onto +9 KVM fist:
If this is the only cause of the issue, then put the delay on Fury instead.


Edit:
@Heimdallr:
I don't think you should remove this "test" on tuesday's maint but on thursday's instead. This way you will get more people trying to level with this change out. As most suras will just stop trying to level and not try to adapt and actually see if this balances out the class or not.


@Trixdee:
Nerfs are required for balancing else every class will just become who can click the fastest and 1shot the other.


Not all Suras have +9 KVM Fist and Gentle Touch Gain... /swt

+9 KVM Fist and Fury is not the focus of the issue, it is after casting Zen, the main problem is "whatever skill" you wanna use after casting Zen, and now it sucks so bad now... /e5
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#50 Clogon

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:32 PM

@Heim:
What is the fixed cast on Summon Spirit Sphere? Me and my friend were just tested it in east pront on Valk, and it has a much higher Fix cast than Variable casting since Sacrement decreased the casting time by much more than Magic Strings. If you change this, the Zen nerf might not be so bad since Summon Spirit Shere will be quite fast but not faster than Zen when you have Raising Dragon on.

Edited by Clogon, 26 May 2011 - 10:33 PM.

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