185 replies to this topic

[veteran2003]

Hi. I will just state what needs to be stated. We all know how agonizingly unbalanced this game is. There will be mad people by the end of this message, albeit many more happy than mad, but that is expected, but better for the game as a whole.



As the next few days pass by, I will be posting very, VERY specific INTRICATE details on balancing EVERY single class, but tonight is going to be the most obviously game-breaking and discouraging one.

You must ALL trust me on this. I have played pvp heavily since 2003. Killing people mindlessly in 1 hit? It's honestly retarded and will NEVER be balanced unless one of the two options below comes to reality

1: All classes can 1 shot all classes without trouble 1v1
2: No class can 1 shot each other 1v1

Crickets Chirping? I think NOT.
That is all there is to it.

To the GMs, If you want every single detail and gamefix to make people happy, mail me a message on here. Im not trying to "look cool".

If you want to make this game good message me then hear me out and apply the changes I suggest. Otherwise this game will always be unbalanced.



By the way, I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to help you fix this game and make it better. Zen is not the problem with sura, as it would only affect the monster kill rate. The goal is to fix woe/pvp rooms. Not monsters. People do not care about killing monsters as much as being strong in woe or pvp. Once maxed out monsters are no longer hunted. We all know the abuses people do to monsters, so just let them do it since exp rates are far too harsh as is. Fixing woe (the true "spirit" of RO) is what needs focused on.



Problems with WoE/PvP:
1: Everyone seems to bypass thoughtful playing/using real skill with Ales/Mastela Fruit spam, including spam with injected programs that spam packets

2: Buff 2-1 classes, HEAVILY, and I mean VERY heavily, if you want to see less complaints all around the board. They do no damage and/or have no survivability skills, when compared to 2-2 classes. (I will be posting more specific balance NEEDS on this tomorrow when I have more time)

3: By buffing them, I mean giving them 1 hit kill attacks and/or attack blocks that nullify 1 hit kill attacks, like all 2-2 classes have.

4: Sura has them all. Period. Take away the AoE debuff from Sura that rips the Maestro songs off of people (people dont talk about this at all because they dont want it debuffed, its too powerful to make it public) And also instead of nerfing zen, put a 1 second global delay on Snap, and make the +9 kvm fist reduce G fist Cast time by 50% of its ACTUAL, and ORIGINAL cast. +9 kvm weapon reducing anymore than that, is playing pre-renewal mechanics while everyone else cannot, and much less everyone else do it with a ONE SHOT skill. Common sense needs applied.

5. No matter how much these Suras cry, constantly killing people in 1 hit without giving people a chance to counter in a 1v1 situation, OR when ganged is UTTERLY ridiculous. Period.

Those are just a couple points that had to be made, since this new recent change to Zen was not what was needed. Now onto GENERAL changes that NEED implemented.

Ok people, you basically have two common sense options here. If you want real skill/reactions involved.

Give every single class a 1 hit KO, and every single class some sort of better counter-skill mechanics, otherwise, you are going to continuously have a broken game that people who get 1 shotted are going to QUIT, while every single person in the whole game who remains will slowly all become suras.

OR,

You could reduce all damage, very heavily, that people do to each other, no matter where they are, or what they are doing, by 60%, while ignoring the complaints of the people (Minority of community but rising) who are just plain 1 shotting person after person.

One shots do not happen to other players, in any other MMOs. End-game = pvp. Everyone eventually reaches end-game and it is inevitable.

Pick your poison and apply it to the game.

Please apply common sense. Less greediness and ignorance would be better for the community who is quite active now in some type of pvp. These are the only true realistic options. Having GM-quality cast-time on a one hit KO attack (dont know how they even considered making that attack speed up at all considering its power) while nobody else does, is just breaking the game. Well the part that matters.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 04:00 PM.

[Wiggles]

You keep talking about 1 vs 1.

In a team vs team environment with competent well geared players, its much different. Its rarely 1vs1 in WoE.

[Unifan]

1 vs 1? oh yea u see those alot during woe!

"walks in, see alot of ppl and yells, WAIT LES FIGHT ONE ON ONE!"

u do realize that the GM made this nerf for WoE base? that half the server don't even participate anymore because of the whole aliance and animosity terrorism? (talking about ZEN btw). and nerfing snap is gonna be the most stupitest idea of all, snap is a monk skills, is never been a problem since pre renewal, pre trans and why is it a problem now? the only thing GM needs to do is BUFF THE ONE THAT ARNT POWERFULL and STOP NERFTING THE ONES "PEOPLE" SAYS THAT ARE OP. seriously Sura is not that powerfull at all. everybody should have their GR/DR by now with all this MCAs thrown at people faces because of lucky box, and a sura with no god items and just a +9 kvm fist will do like 10k damage with gfist and almost no dmg with GoH/KA during woe, are you calling that OP? now u put 2 megs/sleip/bryn, of course you will get one shotted. its call GOD ITEM. it suppose to give you GODLY EFFECT. +9 KVM fist personally in my oppinion sucks. you cant even one shot people in PVP/woe without god items, because it has low atk, YES its helpfull for gfisting, but really not that great for damage boost without god items.

Edited by Unifan, 27 May 2011 - 04:46 AM.

[Dantemss]

Lion howling is a powerful skill? FACEPALM.

1. It doesn't seem to work half of the time.
2. Damage is less than lightning ride.
3. Who cares about Maestro buffs anyway except for LOLGLOOMY (which btw WILL be nerfed)

[asayuu]

3. Who cares about Maestro buffs anyway except for LOLGLOOMY (which btw WILL be nerfed)

I care. Maxed Windmill Rush gives more 30%~40% attack.

Second. Instead of putting a delay on Snap, make it use spheres even with Fury on.

2: Buff 2-1 classes, HEAVILY, and I mean VERY heavily, if you want to see less complaints all around the board. They do no damage and/or have no survivability skills, when compared to 2-2 classes. (I will be posting more specific balance NEEDS on this tomorrow when I have more time)

WHAT? Are you comparing the LK's onehitter Clashing Spiral to the Gypsy's ridiculous Arrow Vulcan, and saying the first needs a buff?

Well, don't forget Warlocks and Rune Knights are 3-1 classes, and both destroy very well with their firepower. GX has one special attack which multiplies ANY physical damage x4 for 90 seconds [it requires one expensive catalyst, but~], Rangers got those powerful traps [and a big fix on they]... [Unfortunately nothing to make trapping as a Ranger better than trapping as a Chaser.]

[Note: The elemental change traps should work in players, to make one higher strategy using they]

...Well, there is also the archbishop class... Which should be a little boosted to make their support better than Suras and Ales, but... Well. And the other 3-1 is... Mechanic [Wow I almost forgot they].

The problem is. I can make a guild with 56 Suras and it still will seem more efficiently than varying the classes. I mean, the other classes are just accessories to the game, in this moment. Okay, the 2 seconds delay in the Zen won't help so much on the war fields. One Sura can always use the Zen and use Power Implantation in the others. But yes, it bothers a lot on the leveling fields.

You could reduce all damage, very heavily, that people do to each other, no matter where they are, or what they are doing, by 60%, while ignoring the complaints of the people (Minority of community but rising) who are just plain 1 shotting person after person.

Everything is nerfed in WOE, but not PVP [Note: In 40%]. Even so, some classes [Sura/RK/RG] still onehit all the others. It's good to have high-powered classes, but they don't have decent drawbacks. Okay, the LK 2000 weight spear adds 4 seconds to CS casting time and 12 seconds on it's cooldown. This would be a decent drawback for a skill with high firepower.

[veteran2003]

1 vs 1? oh yea u see those alot during woe!

"walks in, see alot of ppl and yells, WAIT LES FIGHT ONE ON ONE!"

u do realize that the GM made this nerf for WoE base? that half the server don't even participate anymore because of the whole aliance and animosity terrorism? (talking about ZEN btw). and nerfing snap is gonna be the most stupitest idea of all, snap is a monk skills, is never been a problem since pre renewal, pre trans and why is it a problem now? the only thing GM needs to do is BUFF THE ONE THAT ARNT POWERFULL and STOP NERFTING THE ONES "PEOPLE" SAYS THAT ARE OP. seriously Sura is not that powerfull at all. everybody should have their GR/DR by now with all this MCAs thrown at people faces because of lucky box, and a sura with no god items and just a +9 kvm fist will do like 10k damage with gfist and almost no dmg with GoH/KA during woe, are you calling that OP? now u put 2 megs/sleip/bryn, of course you will get one shotted. its call GOD ITEM. it suppose to give you GODLY EFFECT. +9 KVM fist personally in my oppinion sucks. you cant even one shot people in PVP/woe without god items, because it has low atk, YES its helpfull for gfisting, but really not that great for damage boost without god items.

Nobody is going to listen to the garbage that you spew. The facts are, nobody has the ability to even come close to what sura's do. Period. Just because you've gotten away with it for so long doesnt mean you always will. Changes are needed, and the days of one hit KOs were supposed to fly out the window with renewal. Nobody mentioned god items, you brought them up just like every other sura who gets mad at possible changes to their broken skills. You try to use god items as justification. We are not talking about suras with god items. Suras in general. Quit trying to dodge the fact that you will be nerfed in some way in the near future. I know all of the players that just posted here, and know that all of them do have suras and other alts. This is expected that only suras would get teary eyed here. Once these changes mentioned in my thread take place, the majority of the community will be happy that the game takes skill to play. I think its funny how youre trying to say "g fist and GOH wont one shot someone without god items" as your defense. Get out of here as you are too obvious of a troll. Trolling on the fact that the game will soon be balanced. And yes, snap DOES need a 1 second global cooldown. The effect of it was meant as an escape, not another way to make it even QUICKER for the next person in line to get one shotted. Everyone has brynhilds. Not everyone has meginjards because of how much harder it is to create. Brynhilds have become commonplace and NO, not many people have devilring which hardly works anymore, and is not even in the quadruple-big sized valkyrie server, so quit trying to justify yourselves with more talk about items instead of how the CHARACTERS you suras play, do 70k+ g fists with only 2200 SP or so. You never could hold up a real argument, so quit being a coward and balance will fairly play out for other classes once the GMs see these points.

PS: I didnt mean all of these changes should take place for 1v1. I just used the 1v1 situation as a picutre of any player vs. Sura. Everyone should have the ability to stop g fist or hide it by a reaction timing. When its instant cast, you cant dodge it. At all. 0.1 second cast? Everyone else has cast times and huge delays, but not suras. Not to mention Gates of hell uses 30% sp only, to do high amounts of damage, and everyone chugs ales like theyre mastelas. It gains even more power when the sura is lower on HP so if he takes a hit and then immediately casts after, he will most DEFINITELY one shot people. Quit talking about ghostrings. They dont even help most people because the damage is that high. Even with ghostring its nearly a one shot from g fist, or still is.

Everyone needs a one hit kill attack,

OR

Nobody gets one.

"BUT THATS WHAT SURAS DO"

^ The above statement is exactly why Ragnarok is broken. Next up is genetic talk.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 08:03 AM.

[veteran2003]

I care. Maxed Windmill Rush gives more 30%~40% attack.

Second. Instead of putting a delay on Snap, make it use spheres even with Fury on.




WHAT? Are you comparing the LK's onehitter Clashing Spiral to the Gypsy's ridiculous Arrow Vulcan, and saying the first needs a buff?

Well, don't forget Warlocks and Rune Knights are 3-1 classes, and both destroy very well with their firepower. GX has one special attack which multiplies ANY physical damage x4 for 90 seconds [it requires one expensive catalyst, but~], Rangers got those powerful traps [and a big fix on they]... [Unfortunately nothing to make trapping as a Ranger better than trapping as a Chaser.]

[Note: The elemental change traps should


Everything is nerfed in WOE, but not PVP [Note: In 40%]. Even so, some classes [Sura/RK/RG] still onehit all the others. It's good to have high-powered classes, but they don't have decent drawbacks. Okay, the LK 2000 weight spear adds 4 seconds to CS casting time and 12 seconds on it's cooldown. This would be a decent drawback for a skill with high firepower.

It's actually pretty sad that Heimdallr has listened to people like you recently. Who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Rune knights spiral is reducable by 60% by gear (Cranial, feather beret, 2x alligator cards) , 50% more by woe and and additional 40% because of the ranged nerf in woe.

With ONLY just the gear reductions, and without gloomy, hunting spear, (nobody wears two hand spears for obvious reasons) and without being in WoE setting it does 10k damage (LOL).
With GLOOMY, vs. gear reductions, that is 30k damage. WITH GLOOMY. A buff that is NOT even their OWN.

In WoE setting, this is highly reduced and VERY easily moreso out potionable, and quite useless. 30k damaged, reduced by 50% is 15k. In WoE, with gloomy, it does 15k damage.

Just kidding. It does even less than that. Wanna know why? Ranged attacks are reduced by an ADDITIONAL 40%, leaving around 11k damage on a fully reductioned player, WHILE using a buff that is not theirs.

Everything you just said is terrible, and Im sure actual players, like Myzery will agree.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 08:25 AM.

[TrueMaster]

I guess just get the balance patch because no one is really gona agree one what needs to be done. We can talk about balancing more once things are the way that they are going to be. The CM's have stated that these changes are just till that patch, so save some effort on what should be done at the current time.

[Kadelia]

The current balance patches on KRO look promising. GX, Ranger, Mechanic seem to be pretty viable now. Additionally RG has been nerfed, and clashing spiral and hundred spear have swapped power. Its looking a lot better in the future. My only concerns right now is Sura needs some nerfs, and performer need some buffs. The former not because they do any one thing too well, but because they can do everything really well. They need to be more specialized. Class choice really doesn't have a point if there isn't specialization. And the latter because they have no one thing they do really well. They have a few decent skills that can be done by other classes while still being more useful in other areas. Perfomers need their support skills to become a lot more desirable.

[veteran2003]

The current balance patches on KRO look promising. GX, Ranger, Mechanic seem to be pretty viable now. Additionally RG has been nerfed, and clashing spiral and hundred spear have swapped power. Its looking a lot better in the future. My only concerns right now is Sura needs some nerfs, and performer need some buffs. The former not because they do any one thing too well, but because they can do everything really well. They need to be more specialized. Class choice really doesn't have a point if there isn't specialization. And the latter because they have no one thing they do really well. They have a few decent skills that can be done by other classes while still being more useful in other areas. Perfomers need their support skills to become a lot more desirable.

Hundred spear is very weak on kRO. kRO changes were not in the right direction either. It was closer to the right direction, but not close enough. They did nothing about suras or genetics that brought them down to the snails pace of other classes. The fact that any non-dragonbreath attack on a rune knight is considered range, causes majorly idiotic issues. Pneuma against a KNIGHT? Makes sense. Not. Defending Aura to make a knights skills absolutely useless? Not. They need to change the fact that RKs short ranged attacks are considered long range. Blocking their attacks by very simple means while they cannot do so to others, is causing problems with the game also.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 08:17 AM.

[veteran2003]

I must make one more statement before any talk about Genetics soon however. For any moderators, GMs, or CMs out there who might or might NOT be watching, hopefully you understand how the other classes feel by now. Renewal has been out since like what october? 7 months later, and these far overpowered things have not been changed. You would never see complaints once all of these classes, are put in-line with each other. Do you know how many people actually quit the game once their class becomes useless? But as a company you want to make our money make the game better? Then do this. Put the classes in-line with each other so that there is variety to the game, and more happy players. Dont make people level to 130+ just to find out they leveled only to get one shotted, without having the ability to do the same to other players.

PvP no matter what aspect, is the most important of the game, because its what everyone does when they max out or nearly max out. Everyone eventually maxes out.

Heimdallr if you're out there I trust you understand our frustration. There will be sura tears, but know this. There will be less "QQ" and "Tears" from every other class.

Majority is supposed to rule, especially when the majority wants common sense added.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 08:31 AM.

[veteran2003]

There are only 2 real issues with genetic.

Plants can be summoned under peoples feet, at nearly instant cast. Ok, fine, whatever. It's all good.

Actually no its not, because those plants, which hit for 15-22k, stun people for an average of 20 seconds, and while stunned, the genetic can summon 2 more plants under them at near instant cast, (while they are stunned for 20 seconds). Don't say get vit. Don't say go level. This happens no matter what. Hell plant needs its stun effect drastically changed, if not removed. If you keep the stun effect, make it last about as long as a 90 vitality player in pre-renewal. A character will die to a genetic who already has crazy mobility (Which in my opinion should not be nerfed, since its what their class is supposed to do with cart cannon combo) This stun effect more than likely however, needs absolutely 100% removed. If you cant, then make the stun last 0.2 seconds, as these plants can be near instant cast spammed under a cell that somebody is already standing on. Nobody likes not being able to play their character and have a chance.

The developers were on a good track when they gave genetics the ability to run around really fast and use a little skill to shoot cannonballs. That is actually ok. This is about the only part about genetic that is not broken, and makes them unique. But moving on.. we have other issues, like say

Making EVERY SINGLE CLASSES SKILLS TAKE 5 SECONDS TO CAST IN A NEARLY FULL SCREEN AREA.

This is a cruel joke, and it's not April anymore people. 5 seconds just to even cast improve concentration? Much less 5 seconds for anything whatsoever.

There are only 2 ways to balance this.

1: Either change Mandragora Howling so that it adds like only 1 second to everyones cast time that cannot be resisted or reduced.
2: Remove the skill from the game completely, or remove the fact that it does anything to cast time at all, and make it do something else.

The skill breaks war of emperium, and breaks the ability of anyone to defend theirself, and is far too overpowered when combined with their other skills

Example: Imagine I'm playing a genetic. Im using the ability Hide from a smokey card. Someone runs into pvp room/woe castle, I unhide, press 1 button that requires no skill to press, and make all of their skills take 5 seconds to cast, and then summon a plant that stuns them for 20 seconds, and proceed to throw 2-3 cannon balls at them and laugh at them, and tell them Learn to play or gtfo.

^ No. Not anymore. Get this kind of game breaking garbage out of the game.

Was it that hard to press 3 buttons? Did it really require me to climb up 110 flights of stairs, running 15 miles without stopping, or try to keep a toothpick on the palm of my hand standing up? No. It was actually quite easy. And 1 of the buttons alone would actually have sufficed, with that button being the spamming of hell plants on a cell to which the player was already standing. Bring skill to this game.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 08:52 AM.

[veteran2003]

One more note for now. I noticed the recent developers must have changed, or have had too much favoritism, and somehow thought that it was ok to make changes to weapons that bypass either skill, or play mechanics that were INTENDED.

They tried to make the law of RO pvp physics revolve WAY too much around weapons and weapon effects, instead of focusing at least 90% on character mechanics and slyness. Bringing weapons into the game that give you either Game Master quality cast speed on 1 hit KOs, or maximum attack speed effects with too much defense piercing damage, that are very easily and highly coupled with skills to make other classes just plain useless.

It was a very GRAVE mistake to focus on weapons more than characters, and its obvious where all of the focus has gone. Do any of you actually know how fast 193 attack speed is? Of course you do, and this kind of thing was not originally intended for RO, which is causing disruption and complaints all across the board, instead of things being balanced and peaceful like the community used to be, back in 2006 and below. There was nothing wrong with hydra carded weapon calculations. Giving classes too many 1 hit kills or rapid killing, and the ability to press a button 1 time with some illegal program users botted ales to heal to full while doing so. Fairness isnt a game that a few of these forum-goers want to hear of, because they are the ones with the classes doing this. Well, too bad for you, because the majority of players want a fair game, not an "everyone play this class with this weapon" or lose type of game.

[Kadelia]

Hell plant catalyst is pretty hard to farm up.

Anyway, you rant a lot but you use a lot of bad information. Too much to quote. For example, Howl of Mandragora at max level adds 2 second cast time, not 5 second. Cart canon has an interruptible cast bar without Mjollnir, and isn't really effective for killing. If anything, this class needs a fix cast time re-introduced to it. I also don't know if you know this or not, but if someone is 10 levels higher than you or more in WoE, you have virtually no status resistance against their skills.

My point is I don't think you are qualified to make sweeping gestures about mechanics when you clearly do not know what they are. I think it is great that you want to see the game balanced and want to share your ideas, but a place for you might be in the audience listening and learning how things work and what mechanics can be tweaked, rather than the podium.

[Heimdallr]

Just so no one PMs me saying I need to look at this thread..
I've looked at it.

Carry on!

[Kadelia]

^ lol.

[veteran2003]

Hell plant catalyst is pretty hard to farm up.

Anyway, you rant a lot but you use a lot of bad information. Too much to quote. For example, Howl of Mandragora at max level adds 2 second cast time, not 5 second. Cart canon has an interruptible cast bar without Mjollnir, and isn't really effective for killing. If anything, this class needs a fix cast time re-introduced to it. I also don't know if you know this or not, but if someone is 10 levels higher than you or more in WoE, you have virtually no status resistance against their skills.

My point is I don't think you are qualified to make sweeping gestures about mechanics when you clearly do not know what they are. I think it is great that you want to see the game balanced and want to share your ideas, but a place for you might be in the audience listening and learning how things work and what mechanics can be tweaked, rather than the podium.

Plants are hard to farm up huh? Wrong. Try being a rune knight or guillotine cross, who has to farm up VERY LOW drop rate branches, that must be coupled with like 3 other ingredients with that low drop rate item, only to have a CHANCE to succeed in creating runestones. Dont try to justify this through "farming" excuses. You are right about one thing however. I am using bad information. Bad information which is absolutely true, and to the point. Just because I use bad information, does not mean that it is not true. Howling of Mandragora is 5 seconds. Not 2. Please quit making numbers up, and don't make me prove you wrong. From your signature, you have a genetic. So I can see why youd want to make yourself look fine, but you will have to accept that people will not be happy with imbalance as you are, being on the Rising-higher-and-higher minority who does not want to play on a balanced scale. I'm sure its very fun for you to kill people using these simple and unavoidable methods. I'm also sure it is fun to finish people off with mortal kombat quality fatalities as a GM as well, and yes. Your class has been justly compared to a pre-renewal GM class. For all of the obvious reasons. I dont mind if you think I am not qualified. You're a genetic trying hard to defend yourself, so whatever you say will not affect me, as I have only laid out cold hard facts. You not wanting them exposed, does not mean that they will not be. I am trying to help the good side of the community who has yearned for balance, and your trolling is not appreciated. You are just trying to make me lash out so that this threatening-to-imbalance thread will in your hopeful eyes, get deleted. Now I only responded in this way, because you semi-personally called me out and called me un-credible. So, I responded like a human being and laughed at how wrong you are. Dont try to discredit someone who lays actual facts out, it will make you obvious.

Back on subject, did you just say "cart cannon isnt effective for leveling"? Did you actually dare to REALLY say that? DO you want me to post 100+ screenshots or email you screenshots of 50+ ice titans dying inside of 2-3 cart cannon casts (which are 0.3 secs minimum). Well, I am not going to. You have seen it yourself, and know that you are lying. Cart cannon is an Aoe extremely spammable attack, that many people have complained about its KS'ing powers. Im not calling it overpowered though, since it is not a one hit KO attack, and makes them rather unique. They deserve it, but you know what genetics dont deserve? The things I previously posted above that you already know to be true. They also do not deserve people like you, who will, if this kind of talk from you genetics keeps up, you will cause people to dislike you even more, for lying about your own mechanics.

It is you who is not qualified to make "gestures" here. No this is not a flame. You attacked with a lie, and I responded with the truth that everyone already knows. These people want balance, and you want IMBALANCE to stay for obvious reasons.

Last time I checked this was not SuraGeneticnarok Online.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 09:30 AM.

[Akin]

I agree with you that changes need to be made, and I look forward to reading your ideas on how to further balance RO, but I can't help but feel like you're going about it the wrong way.

Your opening post feels more like a rant than a suggestion, and while might have good ideas, your arrogance and dismissal of other opinions as "terrible" rather than "misinformed" has already started to attract the wrong crowd. I can see this quickly deteriorating into a flame war like so many other good intentioned threads in the past. What will happen is that any good ideas that are presented, will be looked over as everyone looks to one up the next guy by composing a better "burn".

I would say post this in the Renewal Feedback Sub-Forum...but the people you're trying to reach (iRO staff), don't read that lol.


Anyway, as for the topic at hand, I am more than fine with G-Fist being a 1-shot skill, but only if it has the appropriate set up and cost that it had pre-Trans. It's logical that classes speed up over the progression of the game, hence Zen's and Raising Dragon's increasing speed in delivering Spheres over SSS, but that's where the line should be drawn. The KVM fist needs to be nerfed (there should be no way to avoid at least 50% of the fixed cast time that sacrament provides), and that 5 minute cool down of SP regeneration after G-Fist needs to be enforced. By that, I mean that SP recovery items shouldn't work, but allow Soul Exhale to function properly, providing more class synergy.

The Sura in general I find to be a bad overall design in terms of class design. A lot of their skills do the same thing (RB, LR, LH, ES, & TC are all just basic AoE damage skills which a 1 on 1 combo using fighter shouldn't have anyway?), and some are just re-hashes of Monk skills with an twist (CC is area Root, Power Implantation is Spiritual Bestowment for 5 spheres, Power Absorb is a knockoff of Spirit Sphere Absorption, LW is auto snap, KA is snap with damage, GoH is really just a stronger TSS, SNB and Windmill are basically upgrades to Excruciating Palm). I would have much preferred that all these skills were passive buffs to the Monk skills so that all those skill didn't become worthless (besides Snap and G-Fist). The only somewhat fresh skills are Dragon Combo and the Pressure Point skills (but only somewhat).

I know it won't happen, but if I could design Sura, they'd have much smaller AoEs (TC, LR, and LH would be single target in fact), CC wouldn't be an area root, but an area close confine/Basilica (i.e. the person(s) in the circle must fight the Sura and no outsiders could interfere), skill cool downs would be adjusted to promote the "combo-ing" of skills similar to Sorcerer spells, GoH would do something completely different (i'm not sure what but it would have something to do with an actual entrance into Hell. Perhaps an ultimate move to kill undead and demon monsters similar to Heim's vision of ME /rollseyes), and Maces and staffs would do half damage on all monk class skills and have the same ASPD on monks that claws have on priests (I would then proceed to create lots of new and useful fist class weapons).

Luckily for every Sura out there including my own, I'm not the designer lol.

[veteran2003]

I agree with you that changes need to be made, and I look forward to reading your ideas on how to further balance RO, but I can't help but feel like you're going about it the wrong way.

Your opening post feels more like a rant than a suggestion, and while might have good ideas, your arrogance and dismissal of other opinions as "terrible" rather than "misinformed" has already started to attract the wrong crowd. I can see this quickly deteriorating into a flame war like so many other good intentioned threads in the past. What will happen is that any good ideas that are presented, will be looked over as everyone looks to one up the next guy by composing a better "burn".

I would say post this in the Renewal Feedback Sub-Forum...but the people you're trying to reach (iRO staff), don't read that lol.


Anyway, as for the topic at hand, I am more than fine with G-Fist being a 1-shot skill, but only if it has the appropriate set up and cost that it had pre-Trans. It's logical that classes speed up over the progression of the game, hence Zen's and Raising Dragon's increasing speed in delivering Spheres over SSS, but that's where the line should be drawn. The KVM fist needs to be nerfed (there should be no way to avoid at least 50% of the fixed cast time that sacrament provides), and that 5 minute cool down of SP regeneration after G-Fist needs to be enforced. By that, I mean that SP recovery items shouldn't work, but allow Soul Exhale to function properly, providing more class synergy.

The Sura in general I find to be a bad overall design in terms of class design. A lot of their skills do the same thing (RB, LR, LH, ES, & TC are all just basic AoE damage skills which a 1 on 1 combo using fighter shouldn't have anyway?), and some are just re-hashes of Monk skills with an twist (CC is area Root, Power Implantation is Spiritual Bestowment for 5 spheres, Power Absorb is a knockoff of Spirit Sphere Absorption, LW is auto snap, KA is snap with damage, GoH is really just a stronger TSS, SNB and Windmill are basically upgrades to Excruciating Palm). I would have much preferred that all these skills were passive buffs to the Monk skills so that all those skill didn't become worthless (besides Snap and G-Fist). The only somewhat fresh skills are Dragon Combo and the Pressure Point skills (but only somewhat).

I know it won't happen, but if I could design Sura, they'd have much smaller AoEs (TC, LR, and LH would be single target in fact), CC wouldn't be an area root, but an area close confine/Basilica (i.e. the person(s) in the circle must fight the Sura and no outsiders could interfere), skill cool downs would be adjusted to promote the "combo-ing" of skills similar to Sorcerer spells, GoH would do something completely different (i'm not sure what but it would have something to do with an actual entrance into Hell. Perhaps an ultimate move to kill undead and demon monsters similar to Heim's vision of ME /rollseyes), and Maces and staffs would do half damage on all monk class skills and have the same ASPD on monks that claws have on priests (I would then proceed to create lots of new and useful fist class weapons).

Luckily for every Sura out there including my own, I'm not the designer lol.

Aoe is not the problem with suras. Its the fact that they can constantly and overpoweringly kill people. And yes, every real sura has a +9 kvm fist now. If you want a list of players let me know, and you will be informed. The weapon should give no more than 50% reduction of the original cast time of Guillotine fist. Sorcerers and warlocks have cast times that take multiple seconds, while not one-shotting people. Suras, have been gaining the ability to spam 0.1 second cast times (literally that low), that one shot people, in an environment where people are supposed to have fixed cast times and able to counter more so than they used to. This is called Renewal, but has been far from it, as seen in many complaint posts by many people.

Lightning walk: if someone tries to hit a sura who uses this with anything at all, the players attack misses, period, and the sura is teleported beside their character (for whatever idiotic reason) and readily enables them to be instant g fisted.

+9 kvm fist: With the common sura build, reduces g fist to a 0.1-0.2 second cast time with no realistic way to react or counter other than use an illegal program that is not allowed.

Snap: Infinitely, and instantly, teleported ANYWHERE on screen to either avoid death, or get into someones face and one shot them with Goh or G fist. usually g fist since its more powerful. This is a game breaking effect when it came be spammed this readily, and needs a 1 second global cooldown, so that it can only be used to possibly avoid some death situations, not get them close to instantly KO someone.

Knuckle arrow: This skill seems perfectly fine

Dragon Howling: Something nobody talks about, and this skill AOE REMOVES maestro buffs/songs/effects. As if suras are not overpowered enough

Gentle Touch: Lets magically gain 15% more HP just because we pressed a button so that we can one shot people more effectively, and give people an even less chance than they already have to one shot us Suras. (Sarcasm by the way) Balanced? No. Especially with ale spam abuse.

Zen: totally fine as it was and should be reverted back, ONLY if a kvm fist nerf becomes available, or if every single class soon gains more power, or if snap is changed to have a 1 - 1.5 second global cooldown.

Cursed Circle: Fine, except that it just gives them another way to kill you in one hit, as if snap and other things were not enough.

Tiger Cannon: Last but not least, we have an attack that does 12k damage on absolutely fully reductioned characters. This is not the problem however. It actually drains ALL SP from the user who is attacked with it. ARE YOU SERIOUS? KOREANS ARE YOU SERIOUS ABOUT THIS? Draining ALL of a players SP just because they got hit with an instant cast skill? On top of all of the above?

Buff suras. Now. Theyre just not STRONG enough. Killing people in 1 hit is NOT enough. In fact, suras should be able to kill at least 5-6 people in an aoe g fist. Really, this game no longer makes any sense, and will not until changes to all of these skills take place. Hate to say it, but please do not cry if by a 0.3% chance they actually balance this game soon.

Other MMOs make balance patches on a monthly basis, so that the game is just plain fair.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 10:02 AM.

[Braska]

I don't stun with Hellplant. I think i'm doing something wrong.
I'm really curious. What lvl and class are you?

Edited by Braska, 27 May 2011 - 10:01 AM.

[veteran2003]

I don't stun with Hellplant. I think i'm doing something wrong.
I'm really curious. What lvl and class are you?

I'm not going to talk about this as it would give you and other people (not saying YOU will but, you can understand where I am coming from) a huge chance to troll me and have this thread (which needs stickied) deleted.

So forgive me, since my class and level does not matter here.

[Braska]

at least tell me the class

[veteran2003]

at least tell me the class

Lets just say somebody with 110 vit, ok?

[Braska]

Imma guess RK/RG, Thanks!!

[veteran2003]

Imma guess RK/RG, Thanks!!

You're welcome. But you do know that nearly everyone who pvps and woes has a minimum of 100 vit now right? You should know that.