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4th Seal


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#1 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:53 AM

4th seal takes FOREVER to roll [YMIR]- I suggest making 1 of the 2 following changes to it:

-Make it so that you need to turn in the r.ori/r.elu for the quest to count.
Explanation: As it is now, all you have to do is talk to Tiafli once after speaking with all of the dwarves to push the seal forward by 1 count. Getting the KVM badges and Level 4 weapon is completely optional. Guilds that are pushing this seal should have to put something into it in order to move the seal forward.

OR

-Make it so you get the KVM badges when the quest does count- when you talk to Tiafli the FIRST time after conversing with all the dwarves.
Explanation: This way, when the seal is moved forward by one (as it is now at this point in the quest), the player gets something for it. The level 4 weapon part is still optional. This way would give a random player more incentive to do the quest as it doesn't require the 40 r. ori/elu to also get the KVM badges (which is probably the more sought after reward for this quest compared to the random-most-likely-krappy weapon which costs something).

What do you guys think?

Edit: Made my points a bit clearer.

Edited by Snewt, 28 May 2011 - 12:47 PM.

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#2 Pril

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:01 AM

It's rolling fine on Valkyrie.
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#3 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:03 AM

-_- Good for you, lol.
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#4 Myzery

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:09 AM

It's rolling fine on Valkyrie.


Of course it is, your server is ruled by bots.

They should allow an npc that breaks down pure ore into rough ore, problem solved.
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#5 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:15 AM

That would work too.
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#6 HRdevil

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:09 AM

Honestly, i have more Oris and elus in storage than roughs. Easier to get imo.
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#7 LordVader

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:36 AM

It's rolling fine on Valkyrie.


LOL no. Seal 4 has been open for 2 days now I think. Before seal 4 wouldn't last two hours. The changes to seal 4 are fail. Primarily b/c of the high "lose" ratio when you get crap a zz items. Also in part due to having to potentially spend an hour or more on the fight dwarf only to get items that are worth even less than a weeder knife. Was good that they trimmed the ori/elu cost but if you insist on keeping the completely random reward, it needs further trimming. The last two times that I did seal 4 the rewards were terrible and worth less than the cost of the items itself. Removing the choice to pick an item useful to yourself or random was a big mistake and should be repealed. That in and of itself would make doing seal 4 lucrative again. Even before hand with sin farming the seal, ice picks maintained a decent value and desirable. Never understood the point of randomizing the prizes as it only makes it a fail-sauce quest.

Lastly, drop the HP of the fight dwarf to like 150-175. That has to be the biggest drawback of seal 4 quest. The quest in and of itself isn't terrible long, however getting past the fight dwarf is totally random and unfair to people. I have had some prior experiences with this dwarf, maybe done the quest 25 times over the years I have played RO, sometimes i would sit at that fight dwarf for 2 hours and not win only to watch the seal close on me. Then sometimes I would just get it within the first 5 tries. The easiest solution would be to simply drop his HP a bit to give people a better chance to finish the fight and move on with the quest. Or add a timeout for after the fight sequence has been initiated. Something like, if after an hour of you fighting the dwarf he honors your valiant effort and allows you to pass this portion. Even if people AREN'T fighting the dwarf and rather just wait the hour then they take the risk of missing the seal or just can do the quest without the frustration that the fight dwarf has on people.
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#8 jax5

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:38 AM

It's rolling fine on Valkyrie.


The last couple seal rolls, 3 and 4 were closed by specific guilds rolling them.
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#9 Andini

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:47 AM

be happy they even offered the reset stones, sure they are making huge bank off of them, but seals have never rolled this quick in a long time w/o them + the exp rewards from troyseal2
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#10 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:51 AM

Seal 1, 2, and 3 are not the issue here. =p
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#11 renouille

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:58 AM

4th seal takes FOREVER to roll [YMIR]- I suggest making 1 of the 2 following changes to it:

-make it so that you need to turn in the r.ori/r.elu for the quest to count (the SECOND time you talk to Tiafli after conversing with the dwarves).

What do you guys think?

I'm confused--how would this one make the rolls happen faster?
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#12 Anko

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:02 PM

4th seal takes FOREVER to roll [YMIR]- I suggest making 1 of the 2 following changes to it:

-make it so that you need to turn in the r.ori/r.elu for the quest to count (the SECOND time you talk to Tiafli after conversing with the dwarves).

What do you guys think?


Wait, so you want the quest to require you to redeem your weapon with roughs for it to push the seal forward by one? If that is the case would that not just increase the time for the seal to roll? Or did i misunderstand that point?
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#13 Aeolus

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:04 PM

This whole thread doesn't make sense. You made a point then refuted that point all in one post.
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#14 HRdevil

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:10 PM

The last time I did the 4th seal I was fighting the dwarf for an hour and was really stressed, then I beat him 0-100
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#15 morphine

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:12 PM

What I think Snewt meant to say was:

-make it so that you don't need to turn in the r.ori/r.elu for the quest to count (the SECOND time you talk to Tiafli after conversing with the dwarves).


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#16 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:38 PM

I'm confused--how would this one make the rolls happen faster?


Guilds that want to roll the seals will have to spend money (on the roughs) in order to make the quest count as 1.

Honestly, I like my second idea better but that was the first one I came up with so I thought I'd share it.
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#17 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:39 PM

This whole thread doesn't make sense. You made a point then refuted that point all in one post.


How so?

I offered suggestions and asked for the suggestions of others.

Edited by Snewt, 28 May 2011 - 12:48 PM.

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#18 Anko

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:48 PM

Your opening post makes it sound like you want to modify seal 4 to make it not take forever to roll. Thus your first modification seems at odds with what you want. Maybe it was just a suggestion that was not indicative of your objective and we misunderstood.

Regarding your first suggestion, heim stated he did not wish for quest items (ie. roughs) to become the reason for a bottleneck and imo that is an instance where i think he has got it right.

Your second suggestion has been suggested to heim a few times already and he said he would consider it.

Edited by Anko, 28 May 2011 - 12:50 PM.

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#19 Snewt

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:50 PM

Your opening post makes it sound like you want to modify seal 4 to make it not take forever to roll. Thus your first modification seems at odds with what you want. Maybe it was just a suggestion that was not indicative of your objective and we misunderstood.



I modified my original post to be more informational. The first option is more toward guilds pushing the seals in order to make an item and the second option is more geared toward a random player. I prefer my second option.
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#20 Anko

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:03 PM

4th seal takes FOREVER to roll [YMIR]- I suggest making 1 of the 2 following changes to it:

-Make it so that you need to turn in the r.ori/r.elu for the quest to count.
Explanation: As it is now, all you have to do is talk to Tiafli once after speaking with all of the dwarves to push the seal forward by 1 count. Getting the KVM badges and Level 4 weapon is completely optional. Guilds that are pushing this seal should have to put something into it in order to move the seal forward.


The time expended by a guild/alliance pushing pretty much 50 seals in just seal 4 imo is already effort which far exceeds the effort required from the other seals given that fighting dwarf can be a total jerk (some luck ppl get past it first try but i've seen ppl spend hours there fighting). As it is most of those individuals who just ti to push the seals and not redeem their reward are getting no quest reward at all. To require the ores as well and force ppl to gamble for something worth more than the ores is rather punishing.

Also it seems to me like one guild/alliance is mostly doing all the pushing whilst the rest of the server tries to ninja the rolls. While there is nothing wrong with that, it seems like some ppl have created god items faster than it would seem possible without cheating. The gms doing nothing about it is bad enough. To require even more from the ppl who push the seal and lose it to cheaters is like rubbing salt in their wounds.

Edited by Anko, 28 May 2011 - 01:04 PM.

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#21 Aeolus

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:19 PM

I modified my original post to be more informational. The first option is more toward guilds pushing the seals in order to make an item and the second option is more geared toward a random player. I prefer my second option.

How many times have you done the 4th quest out of curiosity? I'm going to tell you right now that the first option is just ridiculous.

Edited by Aeolus, 28 May 2011 - 01:37 PM.

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#22 Tigra

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:23 PM

Wouldn't your first suggestion lead to it taking longer to complete?
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#23 LordVader

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 03:24 PM

Ok, we all got it. First suggestion of OP would slow down seals rolling. Don't need another 20 posts saying the same thing. Instead of everyone mimicking others and griping about the first suggestion add some innovative ideas on how to make seal progression better.

I have another idea but need to gather some more information to finalize the idea and post it here.

Ok I have my idea together now.

One of the issues I have had with all the seals quest is there has never been an incentive to do more than the one or two seal that you may want a reward from. Prerenewal everyone just sat around waiting for seal 4 so they could rape it hard. Now, the situation is pretty much the same in regards of Seal2. Seal 1 and 3 do ok for themselves but it's easy to forsee interest in seal 3 overall declining over time as OCA prices continue to plummet.

My suggestion to further drive these quests to improvement would be a compounded reward system based on seals completion. Each quest completion giving 10 more added KVM badges to the total reward. Ex. Person completes quest 1, then completes seal 2. Instead of giving the standard reward it would give that +10 more kvm badges. Then completes seal 3, gets reward +20 bonus badges for completing the first 2 seals. These rewards would work in any order. So if you complete seal 4 on the tail end and do seal 1 on the next run then it would then count +10 for seal 1 reward.

Onto my other suggestion for addressing seal 4 crappiness. This ties into the added benefit of completing multiple seals instead of just the one here or there. Seal 4 should have a similar check that modifies the reward.

For some reason Heim has a hard-on for chances to lose when doing these quests. Since you insist on having a lose scenario at the least allow the lose portion to be minimized to some extent with the completion of other seals quest. The system that I propose would allow different options after checking for other quest completion. This is at the end when the prize is awarded by 2nd time talking to Tiafi btw. If only 1 seals quest has been completed upon talking to Tiafi the 2nd time then the quest continues as normal and a random prize is awarded.

If 2 Seals have been completed on the character then the prizes are split into two subcategories and the player can choose from random weapon off list A or list B.

If 3 Seals then weapon sets are split into 3 groups with player then choosing random weapon from one of the 3 lists.

If 4 Seals then weapon sets are split into 4 groups with player then choosing random weapon from one of the 4 lists.

While this does not remove the potential random lose factor, it does allow it to become somewhat reduced. With a total of 20 different weapons, there is a 5% chance of getting the 1 weapon you may desire from the quest and 95% chance of something you either don't want or is crap you cant use/sell. With my proposal you could still get crap but it jumps significantly if you get random weapon of 5 to 20% chance of getting the item of desire. Which is more in alignment with a quest that can be so tedious. Combined with added kvm rewards this would REALLY boost seal quests into overdrive w/o directly giving a sure win and keeping some of the rare weapons just that, rare.

But that brings on the question of what weapons should be split into which groups. I will think on it and post split list suggestions later.

If anyone would like to attempt at splitting the weap lists into subcategories here you go as per irowiki. These are supposedly the current reward weaps for seal 4.

Azoth
Bazerald
Bradium Stonehammer
Brionac
Combat Knife
Gate Keeper-DD
Grand Cross
Hardcover Book
Kaiser Knuckle
Ice Pick
Immaterial Sword
Kronos
Mail Breaker
Oriental Lute
Queen's Whip
Rudra Bow
Schweizersabel
Staff of Destruction
Sword Breaker
Tomahawk

Edited by LordVader, 28 May 2011 - 07:02 PM.

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#24 Volt88

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:16 PM

They can add some Exp reward too. Not like seal 2 but something like 1M or 1.5m exp for base and job would be fine and make 4th seal worth the try.

I suggested on another topic that seal 2 exp reward should be split. For example, reduce exp reward from seal 2 and give some of the exp reward to seal 1 and 4.

Edited by Volt88, 28 May 2011 - 04:18 PM.

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#25 Tigra

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:44 PM

Ok, we all got it. First suggestion of OP would slow down seals rolling. Don't need another 20 posts saying the same thing. Instead of everyone mimicking others and griping about the first suggestion add some innovative ideas on how to make seal progression better.

I have another idea but need to gather some more information to finalize the idea and post it here.


I didn't read the posts before me. Many of them are from the OP and yours was a giant wall of text.
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