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Bring bishops on par to third classes.


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#1 Kadnya

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:55 PM

*
POPULAR

Edit: moving proposals before complains part so it's easier to read ^^;


xP
I just wanted to expand on why I don't feel that the new changes to bishop skills on kRO do much difference in balancing the class. It is really simple:

Do these changes make you feel like "Great, I'll totally party a bishop for the +2 agi I'll get, instead of using a buff scroll"? Laudas and clearance aren't of much use outside of woe either...

A few ideas of the kind of skills I would like to see to make bishops more desirable to party/play:

Targeted Buff A: Increase weapon atk/matk of the target by <base level>. For example, a level 20 chara gets +20atk/matk, while a level 150 chara gets a +150 atk/matk.

Targeted buff B: Level 1: Decrease the target SP by <something%> , Increase the target HP by <something%>. Level 2: the same idea of increase/decrease but invert SP for HP.

Targeted buff C: Level 1: Reduce physical damage by %something but increase magical damage by %something. Level 2: the same idea, but inverting physical for magical.

Target buff D: Reduce variable casting part of skills by %50 (doesn't stack with other reductions), kinda like sacrament but for variable casting part.

Targetted debuf A: During the next X seconds, target will take increased damage.

Targetted debuf B: During the next X seconds, target will deal reduced damage.

AoE debuf A: AoE lex aeterna. It would really make bishops more desirable in partying classes in places they want to oneshot mobs, like suras with their nerfed zen for example.

AoE debuf B: Kind of mini ME/Maelstrom, bishop negates some ground skills too

Party buf A: (Short duration like gloria)Increase exp received for party members by small% (counters a bit that now bishops can't exp tap effectively even if they tank)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And many more ideas like that, which makes bishop useful enough to be desirable and needed in different situations would be cool. There are plenty of buffs or debuffs which could be made instead of giving AoE aco buffs.





Original post:

Is there any hope of a fix or balance for archbishop class really?

Imagine you were a sorcerer, then when renewal comes, while everyone has shiny new skills, your class gets its new skills:

Fair bolt: a powerful firebolt will be cast on all the enemies hitting you.
Thundrarboltio: the same as thunderbolt, but now on 3 enemies at once!
Endowquackio: your party new gets all endows of earth when you cast. And it's prerequisite of your main skill tree!
...

and so on.

Or like, if you were a sura, you get

Ragistingly trifectoblio blowio: A new powerful combo move! deals 200% your atk in a 2x2 area.

Or rune knight, like:

Mango break!: Kinda like magnum break, endows your weapon to do a devastating 400% atk AoE of forced mango element. 3 seconds cast time.













..................... that is how it feels playing a bishop.

Why are all my skills remakes of acolyte skills? While having the lowest HP ingame (except for warlock, but they at least have energy coat)... Like, 'fixing bishops' would mean telling kRO to actually work and make new skills for this class, like they invented new skills for every other.

Is there a chance for that even happening?

I feel that even if iRO GMs agreed that bishop was poorly designed, kRO would just ignore them. I know that there are changes for bishop skills in the future. Changes that are like 'ok, now your AoE blessing is not the same, it gives a tiny more stat points' (that is like saying 'ok rune knight, now your neobash which we forced you spend third job skills in doesn't do the same as bash, now it does 5% more damage!')

Yus, there may be some more usefulness in the recoveries, kinda, in the future... but really, I just wish archbishops had some new skills and not AoE aco remakes with awful HP. Half made attack skills that are on par with first classes skills (really, Judex is a magnum break with forced element and cast time; Adoramus is like a level 12 firebolt bolt with gems requirement, duple light is like a double attack...)

Decent HP pool (about the pool of sura or higher? why is the weaker version of aco the one with the low HP mod too?), useful new buffs (why is it that sorcerers, rune knights, suras, almost any attack class got new buffs but the buff class didn't?), useful new recoveries and debuffs (clearance usable on any target, being at least on par with dispel usability), maybe even, useful leveling skills?(ME with a short cast time, Adoramus dealing 2-3 times of what it currently deals, Judex dealing about 4-5 times the damage it currently deals)

Sigh....

Edited by Kadnya, 02 June 2011 - 07:50 AM.

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#2 Mefistofeles

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:56 PM

TOTALLY AGREE +10 TO THIS 1
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#3 Kitten

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:58 PM

I might actually play my Bishop is this ever gets any official support.
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#4 Sapphic

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 02:04 PM

I gotta say though, ABs are infinitely useful in WoE.
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#5 KingOfBabylon

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 02:05 PM

I'd like better Health on my arch
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#6 Renaldoo

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 02:10 PM

I'd use mango break -_-
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#7 Ardi

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 02:13 PM

I've said it about 15 times... if you want AB to be useful in woe you can just make Clearance an AoE of party members with an aftercast delay long enough that it isnt spammable. Fixing that ONE skill would bring it back into the gvg scene just because of Howling alone.
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#8 Ularis

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:04 PM

If only +100 would get this change moving.

Sadly, buff slave for now.
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#9 Volt88

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:10 PM

Just buff ME damage and reduce cast time and they will be happy again.
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#10 darkdito1884

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:46 PM

Make ME a Holy Attack so we can use it on every monster not just Demon and Undead monsters /ok and also take away the gem requierment PW and some other 3rd class AoE skills dont need gems why does almost every aco/priest/AB skill always needs B Gems?

Edited by darkdito1884, 28 May 2011 - 04:49 PM.

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#11 Aeolus

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 05:57 PM

Clementia
MAX Lv : 3
Skill Requirement : Blessing 1
Skill Form : Supportive
Description :Casts 'Blessing' on the caster
and any party members within it's range.
[Lv 1] : 3 cells effective / 120 sec. duration
[Lv 2] : 7 cells effective / 180 sec. duration
[Lv 3] : 15 cells effective / 240 sec. duration
SP cost is increased. (280 / 320 / 360)
Higher JobLv increases the Str/Int/Dex given (1 ~ 5 bonus stats).

Cantocandidus
MAX Lv : 3
Skill Requirement : Increase AGI 1
Skill Form : Supportive
Description : Casts 'Increase AGI' on the
caster and any party members within range
[Lv 1] : 3 cell range / 120 sec. duration
[Lv 2] : 7 cell range / 180 sec. duration
[Lv 3] : 15 cell range / 240 sec. duration
SP Cost is changed. (200 / 220 / 240)
Higher JobLv increases Agi given (1 ~ 5 bonus stats).

Coluseo Heal
MAX Lv : 3
Skill Requirement : Heal 1
Skill Form : Heal
Description : Recover HP of all party
members around the caster.
[Lv 1] : 3 cells effective
[Lv 2] : 7 cells effective
[Lv 3] : 15 cells effective
SP Cost is changed. (200 / 220 / 240)
Higher number of party members increases healing done.
al NEEDS somekind of buff in order to be of any use. Currently it takes like 20 or more uses of the skill to heal a single person, you could do some scaling acording to base level like in other third class skills, so at the end a high leveled bishop has at least 4k~5k heals.

Praefatio
MAX Lv : 10
Skill Requirement : Kyrie Eleison 1
Skill Form : Supportive
Description : Casts 'Kyrie Eleison' on
all party members.
[Lv 1] : Defend 7 times
[Lv 2] : Defend 8 times
[Lv 3] : Defend 9 times
[Lv 4] : Defend 10 times
[Lv 5] : Defend 11 times
[Lv 6] : Defend 12 times
[Lv 7] : Defend 13 times
[Lv 8] : Defend 14 times
[Lv 9] : Defend 15 times
[Lv 10] : Defend 16 times
SP Cost is changed. (80 + (SkillLv x 10) )
The defensive power of the barrier increases with more players in party.

Lauda Agnus
MAX Lv : 4
Skill Requirement : Recovery 1
Skill Form : Recover
Description : Recover Freezing Stone Curse
and Dark Curse of all party members.
[Lv 1] : Success Rate 35%
[Lv 2] : Success Rate 40%
[Lv 3] : Success Rate 45%
[Lv 4] : Success Rate 50%
Now additionally removes Burning, Cold, and Lock (Diamond Dust) status.

Lauda Ramus
MAX Lv : 4
Skill Requirement : Lauda Agnus 2
Skill Form : Recovery
Description : Cures status effects Silence
Sleep and Stun Curse from all party members
[Lv 1] : Success Rate 35%
[Lv 2] : Success Rate 40%
[Lv 3] : Success Rate 45%
[Lv 4] : Success Rate 50%
Now additionally removes Howling of Mandragora and Deep Sleep.

Clearance
MAX Lv : 5
Skill Requirement : Lauda Ramus 2
Skill Form : Special
Description : Release all buff debuff and
curse of party members and the monsters.
[Lv 1] : Success Rate 40%
[Lv 2] : Success Rate 50%
[Lv 3] : Success Rate 60%
[Lv 4] : Success Rate 70%
[Lv 5] : Success Rate 80%
Can now be used to remove critical wounds.
Clearance needs to be usable on everyone. The must be in party requirements are okish for the AoE buffs, but for a recovery skill, it should be used on any ally at least. It would be nice it it was usable on anyone like dispel, enemies too.


Did anyone else read this stuff?

Edited by Aeolus, 28 May 2011 - 06:01 PM.

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#12 Kadnya

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 06:22 PM

Did anyone else read this stuff?


Canto candidus +5 agi is too few of a buff still. Kinda the same as Clementia +5 str/int/dex. It isn't a buff on par with say, striking, even the nerfed striking.

Coloceo heal is still too low, even with the added party bonus. kinda the same with praefatio.


Laudas buff is nice, but nowhere bishops are near the potential of other classes.
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#13 Fibrizzo

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 06:36 PM

Did anyone else read this stuff?


Suras are even better supporters than AB, you know? xD
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#14 Aaronnn

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 06:55 PM

why do bishops get such low hp, it makes no sense

Edited by Aaronnn, 28 May 2011 - 06:56 PM.

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#15 FiskBlack

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 07:06 PM

Is there any hope of a fix or balance for archbishop class really?

Imagine you were a sorcerer, then when renewal comes, while everyone has shiny new skills, your class gets its new skills:

Fair bolt: a powerful firebolt will be cast on all the enemies hitting you.
Thundrarboltio: the same as thunderbolt, but now on 3 enemies at once!
Endowquackio: your party new gets all endows of earth when you cast. And it's prerequisite of your main skill tree!
...

and so on.

Or like, if you were a sura, you get

Ragistingly trifectoblio blowio: A new powerful combo move! deals 200% your atk in a 2x2 area.

Or rune knight, like:

Mango break!: Kinda like magnum break, endows your weapon to do a devastating 400% atk AoE of forced mango element. 3 seconds cast time.














..................... that is how it feels playing a bishop.

Why are all my skills remakes of acolyte skills? While having the lowest HP ingame (except for warlock, but they at least have energy coat)... Like, 'fixing bishops' would mean telling kRO to actually work and make new skills for this class, like they invented new skills for every other.

Is there a chance for that even happening?

I feel that even if iRO GMs agreed that bishop was poorly designed, kRO would just ignore them. I know that there are changes for bishop skills in the future. Changes that are like 'ok, now your AoE blessing is not the same, it gives a tiny more stat points' (that is like saying 'ok rune knight, now your neobash which we forced you spend third job skills in doesn't do the same as bash, now it does 5% more damage!')

Yus, there may be some more usefulness in the recoveries, kinda, in the future... but really, I just wish archbishops had some new skills and not AoE aco remakes with awful HP. Half made attack skills that are on par with first classes skills (really, Judex is a magnum break with forced element and cast time; Adoramus is like a level 12 firebolt bolt with gems requirement, duple light is like a double attack...)

Decent HP pool (about the pool of sura or higher? why is the weaker version of aco the one with the low HP mod too?), useful new buffs (why is it that sorcerers, rune knights, suras, almost any attack class got new buffs but the buff class didn't?), useful new recoveries and debuffs (clearance usable on any target, being at least on par with dispel usability), maybe even, useful leveling skills?(ME with a short cast time, Adoramus dealing 2-3 times of what it currently deals, Judex dealing about 4-5 times the damage it currently deals)

Sigh....

I totally agree in everything with your thread.

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#16 Kadnya

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 07:33 PM

xP
I just wanted to expand on why I don't feel that the new changes to bishop skills on kRO do much difference in balancing the class. It is really simple:

Do these changes make you feel like "Great, I'll totally party a bishop for the +2 agi I'll get, instead of using a buff scroll"? Laudas and clearance aren't of much use outside of woe either...

A few ideas of the kind of skills I would like to see to make bishops more desirable to party/play:

Targeted Buff A: Increase weapon atk/matk of the target by <base level>. For example, a level 20 chara gets +20atk/matk, while a level 150 chara gets a +150 atk/matk.

Targeted buff B: Level 1: Decrease the target SP by <something%> , Increase the target HP by <something%>. Level 2: the same idea of increase/decrease but invert SP for HP.

Targeted buff C: Level 1: Reduce physical damage by %something but increase magical damage by %something. Level 2: the same idea, but inverting physical for magical.

Target buff D: Reduce variable casting part of skills by %50 (doesn't stack with other reductions), kinda like sacrament but for variable casting part.

Targetted debuf A: During the next X seconds, target will take increased damage.

Targetted debuf B: During the next X seconds, target will deal reduced damage.

AoE debuf A: AoE lex aeterna. It would really make bishops more desirable in partying classes in places they want to oneshot mobs, like suras with their nerfed zen for example.

AoE debuf B: Kind of mini ME/Maelstrom, bishop negates some ground skills too

Party buf A: (Short duration like gloria)Increase exp received for party members by small% (counters a bit that now bishops can't exp tap effectively even if they tank)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And many more ideas like that, which makes bishop useful enough to be desirable and needed in different situations would be cool. There are plenty of buffs or debuffs which could be made instead of giving AoE aco buffs.

Edited by Kadnya, 02 June 2011 - 07:47 AM.

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#17 Ularis

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:09 PM

+1 to all AB supporters

Now, if we could just get their hands on applying buffs on our limited (very limited) offensive skills.
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#18 Aeolus

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:10 PM

Alright, thats a lot better I like this post a lot more than the first post.
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#19 Hrothmund

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:23 PM

Honestly they should make Judex into something else entirely and give Adoramus an aoe of 5x5 or something.

Theres something seriously wrong with balance when a classes strongest atk skill is a single target one that does LESS damage than every other classes aoes (cept similarly fail classes).

For the agi/bless buffs, they should give it a bonus of Jlvl/5, but then also make it a centred aoe like battlechant or songs to prevent OP slave buffing.
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#20 FiskBlack

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:57 PM

Honestly they should make Judex into something else entirely and give Adoramus an aoe of 5x5 or something.

Theres something seriously wrong with balance when a classes strongest atk skill is a single target one that does LESS damage than every other classes aoes (cept similarly fail classes).

For the agi/bless buffs, they should give it a bonus of Jlvl/5, but then also make it a centred aoe like battlechant or songs to prevent OP slave buffing.

Yesh i remember Judex in prerenewal, it was going to be a good ofensive skill for AB's but for some reason it got nerfed...
Does REAL iRO GM's hate casters class? :V
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#21 Sera

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:13 PM

Warlocks don't use energy coat because it takes three days to cast.
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#22 JAYRAD

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:14 PM

priest class is supposed to be the most basic buffs possible, ex: direct stat increases, flat atk increase, flat cast time reduction etc. not many of their skills have variance in their effect. this is where the other classes come into play. sura buffs are dependent on the caster's stats, sorcerer's striking is dependent on the skill level(s) of the sorc's endows, and enchant blade is dependent on the rk's matk, int and base level. none of the AB's skills have restrictions like this they are all work right off the bat. this is where AB's shine as support, it doesnt take you to be 150 to have a godlike enchant blade or waste 20 points on endows to have an amazing striking. your class straight up has buffs that are dependent on that one skill and on occasion a catalyst.


and i mean seriously? youre gonna QQ about gt:cure? you have AoE stat recovery so seriuosly, shut up.
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#23 JAYRAD

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:14 PM

@kadnya also, please stop posting
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#24 FiskBlack

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:22 PM

@kadnya also, please stop posting

No, she wont because you post that, or are you a GM/Moderator to say that?
VIVA LA LIBRE EXPRESION!!

Edited by FiskBlack, 28 May 2011 - 09:22 PM.

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#25 Dukeares

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:03 PM

Priest class/HP - Magnus Exorcismus does need a boost in it damage as it use a longer cast time to cast and need to pot ur self while several long recast are needed again to kill a mob :thumb:

Arch Bishop aren't suppose to be just an all around healer and support only. We are also a holy magic dealer.

Sad part is gravity gave us lame small aoe Judex and Andradomus skill holy magic attack that aren't very effective in the damage output. -_-
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