296 replies to this topic

[Mefistofeles]

Priest class/HP - Magnus Exorcismus does need a boost in it damage as it use a longer cast time to cast and need to pot ur self while several long recast are needed again to kill a mob

Arch Bishop aren't suppose to be just an all around healer and support only. We are also a holy magic dealer.

Sad part is gravity gave us lame small aoe Judex and Andradomus skill holy magic attack that aren't very effective in the damage output.

its not the skill, its the matk formula

[Quazera]

priest class is supposed to be the most basic buffs possible, ex: direct stat increases, flat atk increase, flat cast time reduction etc. not many of their skills have variance in their effect. this is where the other classes come into play. sura buffs are dependent on the caster's stats, sorcerer's striking is dependent on the skill level(s) of the sorc's endows, and enchant blade is dependent on the rk's matk, int and base level. none of the AB's skills have restrictions like this they are all work right off the bat. this is where AB's shine as support, it doesnt take you to be 150 to have a godlike enchant blade or waste 20 points on endows to have an amazing striking. your class straight up has buffs that are dependent on that one skill and on occasion a catalyst.


and i mean seriously? youre gonna QQ about gt:cure? you have AoE stat recovery so seriuosly, shut the F U C K up and get the F U C K over it.

but that's the point...we don't need to be level 150 to do the exact same thing as a third class that a first class character can do. The only difference is cast time and an added smidgen of HP and SP.

Plus, the whole AoE thing is only useful in situations that are nothing to do with leveling but needs levels to do like ET or WoE. When you level the most "effective" is in duo's. When is someone going to use AoE bless/agi/KE on a party of two? it's faster to cast them individually and heck, you can have a slave priest and do the EXACT SAME THING.

Then again, when was it ever easy to get secrement? lauda? clearence? silentium? Most people are in their job 30's when they get those skills and by that time you will be lvl 125+. HECK when you are base lvl 150 your job lvl is only early job 40's. So, "do you have someone who has infinite HEBM's and will share half their exp with you forever and ever till death do you part?" yeah right~ the skills are nice for the aforementioned activities but not so much for leveling (save for secrement).

Also,the whole point of a priest class is to SUPPORT not just buffing. Support = healing, buffing and curing allies, debuffing enemies, your classic resurrection and anything that would maximize the efficiency of the one they are helping. There is MUCH more out there (as Kadnya has listed some) that could be considered support but are not implemented or given to other classes that eliminate a great portion of the priests potency.

ALSO to your trolling sentence at the end, what you call QQing is someone seriously suggesting things that may benefit of the entire game, not your run of the mill "omg, this one lil cast time/delay/skill is too long/short/gay so nerfnerfnerf plox" etc that's only for ones own leveling purposes or because someone got killed to fast in pvp/woe. Having a stronger more diverse support class benefits ALL other classes in the game. HECK, if you had decent support it might even make partying more desirable!

tl;dr: Read the post you lazy ass

Edited by Quazera, 28 May 2011 - 10:32 PM.

[Mefistofeles]

but that's the point...we don't need to be level 150 to do the exact same thing as a third class that a first class character can do. The only difference is cast time and an added smidgen of HP and SP.

Plus, the whole AoE thing is only useful in situations that are nothing to do with leveling but needs levels to do like ET or WoE. When you level the most "effective" is in duo's. When is someone going to use AoE bless/agi/KE on a party of two? it's faster to cast them individually and heck, you can have a slave priest and do the EXACT SAME THING.

Then again, when was it ever easy to get secrement? lauda? clearence? silentium? Most people are in their job 30's when they get those skills and by that time you will be lvl 125+. HECK when you are base lvl 150 your job lvl is only early job 40's. So, "do you have someone who has infinite HEBM's and will share half their exp with you forever and ever till death do you part?" yeah right~ the skills are nice for the aforementioned activities but not so much for leveling (save for secrement).

Also,the whole point of a priest class is to SUPPORT not just buffing. Support = healing, buffing and curing allies, debuffing enemies, your classic resurrection and anything that would maximize the efficiency of the one they are helping. There is MUCH more out there (as Kadnya has listed some) that could be considered support but are not implemented or given to other classes that eliminate a great portion of the priests potency.

ALSO to your trolling sentence at the end, what you call QQing is someone seriously suggesting things that may benefit of the entire game, not your run of the mill "omg, this one lil cast time/delay/skill is too long/short/gay so nerfnerfnerf plox" etc that's only for ones own leveling purposes or because someone got killed to fast in pvp/woe. Having a stronger more diverse support class benefits ALL other classes in the game. HECK, if you had decent support it might even make partying more desirable!

tl;dr: Read the post you lazy ass

renewal.... you know what means? did you read the main change that gun-ho promised? about a completly change, thats why archs got offensive skills, becouse actually they are killers in kro and other servers with common sense, the slave aco class got killed by renewal, that was the change, it was supossed to be....

[ItalianChild]

Warlocks don't use energy coat because it takes three days to cast.

heh i LoL'd

[Pril]

priest class is supposed to be the most basic buffs possible, ex: direct stat increases, flat atk increase, flat cast time reduction etc. not many of their skills have variance in their effect. this is where the other classes come into play. sura buffs are dependent on the caster's stats, sorcerer's striking is dependent on the skill level(s) of the sorc's endows, and enchant blade is dependent on the rk's matk, int and base level. none of the AB's skills have restrictions like this they are all work right off the bat. this is where AB's shine as support, it doesnt take you to be 150 to have a godlike enchant blade or waste 20 points on endows to have an amazing striking. your class straight up has buffs that are dependent on that one skill and on occasion a catalyst.


and i mean seriously? youre gonna QQ about gt:cure? you have AoE stat recovery so seriuosly, shut the F U C K up and get the F U C K over it.

In regards to enchant blade, you really don't know what you're talking about.
As well, you realize that having next to no incentive to being higher level is terrible game design?

I don't play an Arch Bishop, but I give full support to Kad on this.

[Charon]

I don't understand at all why they even messed with HP/SP mods.
When they made trans, you just had the HP/SP as 2nd cls but 10%+
Now some classes get all kinds of unexpected ones when changing to third lol.

But yah, would be nice if ME did dmg like wiz skills, and Judex/Adorams weren't a complete joke either.

Edited by Charon, 29 May 2011 - 01:20 AM.

[Kadnya]

it doesnt take you to be 150 to have a godlike enchant blade or waste 20 points on endows to have an amazing striking. your class straight up has buffs that are dependent on that one skill and on occasion a catalyst.

It doesn't take bishop 20 points to get striking, or enchant blade because there is no version of strong buffs like that for bishops. But in the other hand, bishops do spend 27 skill points between a mix of aco remakes and battle skills in order to reach their one new buff.

Which of the new bishop buff skills (which are actually the new bishop buff skills?) is the one that makes awesome partying a bishop?
Which new roles that a regular priest couldn't fill does bishop fills?
Could you list some buff in line with the other classes buff skills (so far ), or some debuff in line with other classes debuffs?

Even when the new party system fix comes live, I fear that we will realize how bishops still don't get partied. Why?

Because there was a time where our roles in partying was tanking the mob for our killer while exp tapping in the way, and now we are bad tanks and exp is insignificant. Because there was a time where where lexing AV,SD and other one target skills was useful for our party killers, but now AoE killing is the leveling way, and lexing isn't viable. Because there was a time where we used sufragium on our wizard at old magma before SG, but now that isn't viable or needed anymore... and so on.

What will bishop offer as buffs, debuffs or support that goes past the "well, it's nice to have it" to the "it is totally awesome, I would love to party a bishop" barrier? Or even going to "We need a bishop to do XYZ thing in this party" extreme?

I'm not talking about WoE only, but mostly pvm. In woe, we will get aoe recoveries for the aoe status that other people inflict. Just like people don't level with deep sleep but have SR instead, or don't level with howling but have CC instead, or don't level on cursed circle but have rampage or lightning ride and so on... bishop needs something to offer in pvm. Not only 'it's nice to have but I can do that with an alt tabbed slave every 5 minutes', but a 'it's awesome when a bishop is here'.

Just like how awesome I would feel if a sura rathered to party me instead of soloing, or a rune knight, or a sorcerer, or a chaser, or any other classes instead of me soloing with my bad attack skills(or meleeing with duple light), it would be super if that sura, chaser,sorc,etc would feel it is much better to party a bishop than just soloing.

Edited by Kadnya, 29 May 2011 - 05:37 AM.

[JAYRAD]

as a support class, the reason why i would party with a priest would be to keep me alive (read: use less pots; save zeny) the buffs are a perk.

real way to make kadnya shut up is to make judex deal the same damage adoramus does and make adoramus the priest equivalent of cross impact or smth. and also move them up a tier or two on the max hp chart.

kadnya, please keep your mouth shut until we get the kro patch that lets abs cast expiatio on others. then i might allow you to qq again.

[MeisterKirisaki]

then i might allow you to qq again.

That's not for you to decide.
If you have a problem with a person using this forum in one of its intended ways, you're free to offer constructive criticism or ignore that person. If you can't do that, it might be the time for you to educate yourself about forum basics, and then try again in a different way.

Edited by MeisterKirisaki, 03 July 2011 - 06:01 AM.

[Andini]

abs are pretty much one of the top lvlers now with sura because they have warp portal, meaning they can memo their own warps and client less when doing seal 2

on srs note, hopefully abs will get the aoe party cures for deep sleep, howling, freeze, etc asap cause that would be pretty neat considering its pretty stupid abs cant even clearance themselves. it would be about 15x more useful than a party clearance too, because there are a large variety of situations where not everyone in the party needs a clearance, easily then doing more harm than good in those situations

abs have some of the best skills available, but the majority of them were never thought out well and thus they have ones they will never use till fixed/changed. renewal is all about mobbing for exp, there is nothing comparable now to tkm hw bio 2 killing in parties anymore where priests are very important to those parties and where with a really good spawn there could be 2-4 priests in the party and it would still be ok.

should 5x the spawn and 10x the exp of brit gd/other maps with undead monsters so abs can have a way of lvling for now

Edited by Andini, 29 May 2011 - 06:59 AM.

[Kiryu]

I really like the ideas of atk/matk change... in place of giving extra status would be better to give atk/matk or in agi case /aspd on the aoes.


also I admit, I kind of like cantocandidus and prefatio... but clementia =S... bless is so easy to cast you can have an aco casting for you with the same party speed than clementia...

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I want to see the offensive abilities of priests expanded rather than their buffs. Priests should be able to deal scary holy magic damage.

They already have a skill that reduces resistance to holy damage, and that along with Lex Divina should allow them to single out a target for execution and then slam them with Adoramus, but it doesn't work that way in practice.

Adoramus needs to have a much higher damage output, and so does Judex. Perhaps these skills could inflict a status similar to the sorceror's elemental AoE's.

If Judex cast Lex Divina on everyone it hit, then that would be pretty cool I'd think. Then the priest would be able to throw down a judex/adoramus combo to deal good damage without being too broken, and players could still pot through it.

In my eyes, priest class should be a balance of magical offense and defense. They can buff themselves, use safety walls, KE, all these interesting support skills not only to boost other players, but to fortify themselves and bring their usual sqishy selves up to fighting par. Unlike monks, who can go straight for the kill, a battle priest should revolve around boosting their own stats, healing themselves, and dealing damage while maintaining solid defense.

It's hard for them to do this due to the low power of their skills and their bad HP mod as it currently stands.

[Kadnya]

Bump!

Suras have taught us a valuable lesson: it is possible to change Heims mind with enough complaining solid reasoning. Maybe Heim could poke kRO to revise bishop skills?

Even if kRO just answers like 'no iRO, shut up', it would be cool to see our GM team at least trying ^^

[Chucklet]

Mango break!: Kinda like magnum break, endows your weapon to do a devastating 400% atk AoE of forced mango element. 3 seconds cast time.

This was my first laugh of the day ^^ Thank you Kad!
Also, I fully agree on this whole issue, bishops could use some serious love .

[meli]

I wish I could clearance all my allies instead only of the people in party, it's pretty retarded. I understand that it can't be like dispel but we're not even asking for that, it's a recovery skill, why is it so limited?

No wonder you barely see ABs in woe. With that hp pool if you're not 150 + high vit + top gear I don't see why bother, it's a one shot feast. If you ask me, makes no sense that the class supposed to keep the group alive/buffed is the one that dies easier.

N>fix.

Edited by meli, 01 June 2011 - 06:08 AM.

[Charisma]

Honestly, I don't know... I still love priest and playing priest, but after having several months with renewal, my only real complaint is the skill tree. Like seriously, I have to get all these skills I'd rarely/never use to get the one new skill I'll be using to death (which I must say I love myself some Sacrement).

I do like the changes that kRO are getting with ABs and with the changes to the supportive skills of other classes, I don't really feel as threatened by those. I still feel threatened by the mighty white pot and all the goodies that the Kafra Shop offers. However, all I wanna do is hit 150 (and job 50 too...). Maybe I'll get around to playing mine in WoE again one day. But yeah, the kRO changes, I do want them.

[Uruwashii]

Mango break would actually be pretty imba... The only thing to reduce it would be asprika.

In all seriousness though, I think Clearance would be the only thing that needs fixing. Those simple "premium" acolyte buffs are a necessity in WoE, and having them as partywide skills allows you to be more aggressive with your other ones(lex, pneuma deny with sw, etc). Not to mention ABs are getting a nice buff with our lauda skills to fix those nasty 3rd class status ailments.

I would like some kind of buff to ME though. I had a conversation with a friend on vent a few days ago that it doesn't make sense when a genetic or rune knight can vanquish demons faster than I can with a skill 3 syllables longer than theirs!!

Edited by Uruwashii, 01 June 2011 - 06:59 AM.

[igzz]

+1000000
Bring ABs back the same glory among 3rd classes as HPs used to have among trans chars!

[magiccircle]

I don't understand what this thread is about. AB's have Sacrament (which is THE BEST buff in the game) High heal (with the right gears you can get a 16k+ HEAL -BROKEN-) are pretty much the best tanks in game with the right gears (even with having the lowest base HP barring warlock) the ONLY problem with archbishop is the low base HP, If that was changed with the new skill updates (which should of been here from the start, what kinda game has new statuses and no way to cure them with the actual Healing class) the class would be perfect. I think the design with archbishop was that the most basic skills make the biggest changes, they didn't need fancy new buff skills to be effective at what they do. All they needed was a little help to spread there effectiveness in a party which they pretty much got.

Edited by magiccircle, 01 June 2011 - 09:35 AM.

[FiskBlack]

I don't understand what this thread is about. AB's have Sacrament (which is THE BEST buff in the game) High heal (with the right gears you can get a 16k+ HEAL -BROKEN-) are pretty much the best tanks in game with the right gears (even with having the lowest base HP barring warlock) the ONLY problem with archbishop is the low base HP, If that was changed with the new skill updates (which should of been here from the start, what kinda game has new statuses and no way to cure them with the actual Healing class) the class would be perfect. I think the design with archbishop was that the most basic skills make the biggest changes, they didn't need fancy new buff skills to be effective at what they do. All they needed was a little help to spread there effectiveness in a party which they pretty much got.

You must be high, seriously you MUST be high.
This comment would work in prerenewal now dont.

Spoiler

Edited by FiskBlack, 01 June 2011 - 10:36 AM.

[TrueMaster]

One of the bigger problems i have with priests is how asumptio was turned into basic crap. I duno if it could go back to the way it was with the things they are now though.

Look who's talking about people being high, some person who is obsessed with animalism and unsightly circular reasoning. Also, i don't believe you are allowed to use swear words in the forums even if it is via images.

Edited by TrueMaster, 01 June 2011 - 10:05 AM.

[asayuu]

Soul Linked alchemists [I did not said "Genetic". I said "Alchemist"] heal better than Archbishops. And with ASPD delay, not 0.8 seconds [or more by using High Heal]. They even can heal SP.

And wow. This table... This HP table made me feel bad. Why does classes lose status after changing class? [/sob this remembers my 500 SP loss going Gypsy -> Wanderer] ...Okay, we can reach 150 now... But... We start weakened. [1500 sp, and the most expensive skill cost was 30. Then we changed to 1000 sp, and the most expensive skill costs 120 now. Not sure about SP pool of one AB, but yeah, Wanderers having more HP than Archbishops... It hurts in my soul.]

Note: N> AB to party anywhere, "FS" Wanderer [Yes, we have rainstorms!] level 111 / Valkyrie Server /omg

Because there was a time where our roles in partying was tanking the mob for our killer while exp tapping in the way, and now we are bad tanks and exp is insignificant. Because there was a time where where lexing AV,SD and other one target skills was useful for our party killers, but now AoE killing is the leveling way, and lexing isn't viable. Because there was a time where we used sufragium on our wizard at old magma before SG, but now that isn't viable or needed anymore... and so on.

You are right as like... I don't know, just know it's much. According to my own post [/omg] I don't let my AB partners tank at magma 2. They have less HP than me. [Note: My only HP gears are Mass-production KVM shoes and Eden Armor 3]

Edited by asayuu, 01 June 2011 - 10:19 AM.

[Oda]

You must be high, seriously you MUST be high.
This comment would work in prerenewal now dont.

Go easy on the image macros brony

[Ularis]

Assumptio:
Pre-renewal halves melee/ranged physical damage.
Renewal doubles physical/magic defense.

As HP/low lvl AB
Like we have enough stat points to up our def to an amount that makes a difference (VIT), deal decent damage (INT) and cope with cast time (DEX) all together.

Don't even mention FS build

What is support when there isn't a lot of partying going on?

This just results to heal bombing for priests/HPs but what can ABs heal bomb? (checking monster list) 11 and some of the ones in the list are poorly spawned (Dullhalan and Ancient mummy) to lvl with as a new AB. Nameless would be best with mobs of undeads, which I don't recommend soloing (for ME/FS).
Thus, partying is required for FS and ME lvling as AB.


They (kRO) should've just added half magic damage, instead of doubling def/m.def.

We don't know if they plan to redesign AB skills but I'm pretty sure the buffing of the offensive skills are doable.

Keep it up Priest/AB supporters!!!

Edited by Ularis, 01 June 2011 - 10:34 AM.

[asayuu]

Keep it up Priest/AB supporters!!!

^-^

You remind me what was a role of Bards and Dancers before trans/renewal. Supporting the priests on their support output [Strings (Faster Heal), GK (Boosting SP pool), Power Cord (Ress/Sanct/ME without gems), Mental Sensing (More EXP), Acoustic (Protecting priest from damage and status effects)]

Now... Moonlight Serenade/Song of Sinking does not affect Heal, even saying VERY. CLEAR. it raises magic attack. Heal is affected by Magic Attack, but not by Moonlight. I tried to act as a [decent] FS Wanderer helping some exorcist HP/ABs. Okay, their damage output was pretty decent [4k each one of the ME damage hits] but... Unmatched to Severe Rainstorm's output. And 20 silver arrows are cheaper than one Blue Gemstone.

Just one small detail... About the KRO changes... Song of Sinking will not increase heal power... But decrease it instead.