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Green Ales drop rate


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#51 BlackPotato

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:33 AM

Drop rate is way lower than 1%
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#52 naseefc

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 10:03 AM

I average about 1 ale every 7 blanks. If it was even at half the rate of blanks I would be fine with it, but at this rate it is only worth it for bots. Remember this takes up your primary head slot unlike a spare card.
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#53 Renaldoo

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 11:28 AM

I do not think it should be a "Super high" drop rate. I merely think that:

Premise A: The item was added and given an effect to encourage people to buy it and use it. (I don't think the GM's intended to put it in as a useless item)
Premise B: The effect, while offering access to a powerful item, is not being used due to low drop rates. (Expansion below)
Conclusion: Were the drop rate increased slightly, this item might be used as was originally intended.

The expansion on premise B:

It gives access to a powerful item which many players find controversial, and for that reason consider the headgear inherently overpowered.
But the problem is, the drop rate on the hat is so low that, were a player to want to farm, it would be substantially quicker for them to use a different headgear for farming items (I.E. Cubic Magnolia, or no card and a triple poring hat.)

It doesn't seem like a significant difference at first, but picking up the items either costs KP for greed scrolls, or it takes substantially longer to manually pick up the items from the mob than it did to kill them. Using the current value of KP as gestured by zeny-WPE trade rates, each cast of "greed" costs approximately 52,000z. Either I spend 52,000z to pick up one mob of loot, or I invest 2-3x as much time in farming the same amount of loot.

The benefit gained from ditching the St Patrick's hat and using a triple poring/magnolia means doubling/tripling the amount gained from the other items I'm farming, which (when St Patrick's hat IS worn) nets about 90% of the profitable value from the farmed items.

To use some numbers:

15 Minute Session: 1,000,000z
Blanks, Ice Creams, Gift Boxes, Etc. Drops (Elu, Ori, OC items): 900,000
Green Ales : 100,000

In that 15 minute session, by dropping the St Patrick's hat, I save about 50 greed scrolls (250K), or earn about double that net worth on the other farmed items (+900,000). Both scenarios are more than substantial, in that the amount benefited by NOT using the St. Patrick's Hat allows me to buy all the green ales I would have farmed with the hat, plus some extra left over.

When I say the drop rate should be improved, I'm not saying I'm not getting as many green ales as I want to get. I'm saying that the item needs to be boosted from the projected 0.2% we've approximated from substandard testing to about 0.4% or 0.5% in order to function as I'm sure it was originally conceived. The GM's put in the item at a price of 300 KP, and only made its effect useful at +7, meaning one would, on average, spend (1 free attempt from the quest, plus 2 attempts at 300kp, using 5~9 enriched ores @ 20p each box price) roughly 700-800 KP to make the hat. Some made it on the first attempt with 3 ores for 60 KP, some probably used 5+ attempts and didn't make it at all. In either case, they put that "sliding price" on the item with the intention of people making use of that effect. People aren't doing that, because the unspoken cost of wearing the hat (using the top headgear) means you're operating at a slight loss for time invested. Bots, however, have unlimited time, and can make use of it when nobody else does.


1% would be a little too extreme, I'd suggest 0.5% to be the sweet spot of sustainable but not exploitable.
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#54 Kadnya

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:31 PM

*Economic explanation*


I'm not against making the hat more zeny-profitable, but I would totally be against seeing more ales being made because how unbalancing can ales be. Luckily, both ideas are not opposite.

How about maybe, instead of just make more green ales drop, the +7 hat would boost the drop rate of other items too?. For example, make the hat drop green ales at the same rate as it does now, but if the hat is used at the same time a spare card is used, the chance for drooping blank cards is increased to 7% instead of the previous 5%. Or increase the drop rate of OBB, or if the item is upgraded to +9, the hat autocasts greed like magnolia... all those kind of changes would make the hat a much better zeny gain(which is what you want) than just increasing a tiny bit the drop rate of ales, and wouldn't make more ales be generated (which is what I want xP).
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#55 Renaldoo

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:39 PM

Spare cards are 2%, 5% would be.. insane, but I do like your ideas.

I imagine the "Combine this with that and get this effect" would be a little bit more complicated to implement, but a "+8 casts greed" would be fitting, I think. Moreover, it fits in very well with the theme, no? Leprechauns, greed? :waddle:
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#56 Mefistofeles

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:14 PM

What about improving drop rate of ales to 1% BUT, CAN ONLY BE USED BY LEVELS 145+ that can stop the little bots from "boting"
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#57 asayuu

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 06:52 PM

What about improving drop rate of ales to 1% BUT, CAN ONLY BE USED BY LEVELS 145+ that can stop the little bots from "boting"


No, this is ridiculous. Some people [not bots] under 145 also use ales to level, and they don't buy. They drop in maps.

It would be okay if the [effect of the] hat was restricted for people over 100 though. [Few looter bots go to third class, they get stuck at 99 to save funds]

Not raising the drop.
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#58 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 06:55 PM

Here I am wondering how people get a hold of 500 ales in Ymir.... :waddle:
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#59 Tassie

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 06:58 PM

...after using The Ale hat* for for 3 day.. I went back using +9 Christmas Tree Hat where i usually get 1 or 2 cookies per mob....


Those Christmas Tree hats are more useful than a lot of people give them credit for, especially while leveling a new character.
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