244 replies to this topic

[Ninnghizhidda]

Umh, rush and kiting, and, pop!, here is a good tank? Maybe it is. Or maybe you are still playing a caster in your mind? Tanks dont kite, tanks take it in the face, brave it, stand there between the monstrous hordes and their party mates. So that their party mates stay safe and do their part of the job. At least that is what I thought for 1.5 years here in Requiem, and for that matter in ANY other RPG for many years now... Of course, I could be wrong.

You can certainly charge in and pull whole rooms in JS or dozens of linked mobs in ST. The best of luck! May I add one little detail? Even if as a tank you are comfortable and survive, I am not so sure the same would be true with the other party members, unless it is some extraordinary UBER party. Just from experience, when the skull crashers start to rain... it is hardly the tank who will suffer (actually will not suffer one bit, if a decent Commander).

So, I guess there exist several different playing styles and recipes, which is cool. My only question would be which recipe leads to fewer disasters and less drama...

[Famous]

kiting makes it easier for healer or any healing person to heal especially when mobs are slowed as you can keep them withing range of aoes but run in circles which will make them hit you less, but ofc this requires motivation as you could just stand there and do fine too

[Loyalty1]

duh, anyone with ~8k hp ~2k def and able to hold agro can tank

i was gonna make commie since there is lack of tanks and i can also solo but it's too expensive so i made myst instead

I've been with tanks with 12k hp and capped def yet they die like dogs in ST.

[Famous]

I've been with tanks with 12k hp and capped def yet they die like dogs in ST.

they capped def? no way!

but seriously i was talking in js terms, st is a bit harder and unexperienced tank might die even if his gears are good enough

[Loyalty1]

they capped def? no way!

but seriously i was talking in js terms, st is a bit harder and unexperienced tank might die even if his gears are good enough

I thought tanking was easy and it was only taunt spam?

[Ninnghizhidda]

ST is slightly different story from what I have seen. Mobs there use elemental attacks so perhaps good resistance is needed too. Also, they can come in huge packs, and this means that the best tank ever will not be able to handle dozens of these mobs. Well, with modest 16k HPs and 5.5k def (from party buffs) it was a real struggle to handle up to 10 or so scorpions...

[Spieler09]

there fix damage killed all ( or there high add damage)

[KaraSimsek76]

kiting makes it easier for healer or any healing person to heal especially when mobs are slowed as you can keep them withing range of aoes but run in circles which will make them hit you less, but ofc this requires motivation as you could just stand there and do fine too

Tanks should only kite if they are about to die
to escape the dmg and give the healer more time to heal.

And skull crash doesn´t effect commanders with lvl 9+ AM.

[tally]

Tanking JS is easy stuff. The only part requiring any thought is judging how many Guards to pull based on your party's crowd control skill and HP of the poor person taking the crushers, or the healing ability of the radiant if they're a mini one.

ST I have never tried. That's hardly standing there taunting tho... There's far too much going on... extra mobs being pulled, mobs respawning, mobs kiting you for a change. The tank must be on the ball because a missed taunt means healer dies, everyone dies. It's not a place to be taken lightly - doesn't matter if the tank has +30 everything if they can't pay attention and take the aggro.

But it's not all down to the tank. DPS must pay attention too... pull extra mobs through clumsiness and don't expect to get your arse saved every time!

And stuff

[Commander]

ST tanks need def, HP, resist, a good healer, and an intelligent party, or at least a party who listens. Mobs there have a very large aggro range. Don't pull extras if you are dps there, it just irritates me.

Resistance makes a very nice difference on scorpions and on elephants.

[Dess]

You can see the difference between a good tank and a bad one in ST or JS; if you think it's only taunt spam, then boy you're wrong since so many fails at being a good tank.

Completly agreed

Gearing and spaming taunts is only half of the work. In my oppinion what defines a good tank is knowing what its tanking, positioning, fast reaction and knowing his party.

For exaples:
Dont kite RH or put RH between you and your party, youll just kill everyone.
Dont run with dogs in JS to the radiant, youll probably get him feared and kill whole party. Same applies with guards to the person getting all stunts, youll just make them get all stunts toguether and intantly die, no rad can heal that.
Take aggro from dogs fast, lvl 5+ single taunt and a couple of points in long range taunt works wonders here.
Dont overpull, if you and/or your party can take the dmg pull less, knowing your limits is very important for a tank, and those event pots wont last forever.....
I know its a hard desition, but if someone in AT comes runing to you with a whole army on his back screaming "TAUNT" dont do it, you will die, your party will die and the one screaming "TAUNT" will die, why kill everyone when you just can leave 1 to die?? He will die anyways....
My personal favorite when im healing.... Dont run 40m away from the radiant and then scream "HEAL", we have 20M range, keep that in mind And its even better when you expect your rad to go in the middle of Earthshock wich will only kill him and probably youll die after....
And some mobs are better kept between you and your party, elephants in ST are an example, the aoe only hits on front, so if the party is behind the mob they take no damage

[Leash]

TankGirl took my ranger to st yesterday, its was overall a pretty good experience

[Famous]

gz on 77

[Leash]

gz on 77

ty!

[champy]

Completly agreed

Gearing and spaming taunts is only half of the work. In my oppinion what defines a good tank is knowing what its tanking, positioning, fast reaction and knowing his party.

For exaples:
Dont kite RH or put RH between you and your party, youll just kill everyone.
Dont run with dogs in JS to the radiant, youll probably get him feared and kill whole party. Same applies with guards to the person getting all stunts, youll just make them get all stunts toguether and intantly die, no rad can heal that.
Take aggro from dogs fast, lvl 5+ single taunt and a couple of points in long range taunt works wonders here.
Dont overpull, if you and/or your party can take the dmg pull less, knowing your limits is very important for a tank, and those event pots wont last forever.....
I know its a hard desition, but if someone in AT comes runing to you with a whole army on his back screaming "TAUNT" dont do it, you will die, your party will die and the one screaming "TAUNT" will die, why kill everyone when you just can leave 1 to die?? He will die anyways....
My personal favorite when im healing.... Dont run 40m away from the radiant and then scream "HEAL", we have 20M range, keep that in mind And its even better when you expect your rad to go in the middle of Earthshock wich will only kill him and probably youll die after....
And some mobs are better kept between you and your party, elephants in ST are an example, the aoe only hits on front, so if the party is behind the mob they take no damage

i would just add that a tank should rarely move once he taunted all mobs needed.

so people can find correct range to avoid aoes and to shoot, radiant can find a good place to single heal tank and party heal others... and moving would just bring mobs out of aoes...

only times i move is to place unters in ST reachable for melee dps.

But people should also learn to wait a bit before atking or single heal, to let the time to tank to find his good position, and get sure he taunted all mobs.

and if he didn't agro one mob, bring it to him... taunt has short range, and prot needs to put so many DNA in def and block he just can't put any point in long range taunt DNA.

[Ninnghizhidda]

But people should also learn to wait a bit before atking or single heal, to let the time to tank to find his good position, and get sure he taunted all mobs.

and if he didn't agro one mob, bring it to him... taunt has short range, and prot needs to put so many DNA in def and block he just can't put any point in long range taunt DNA.

I am glad that you mention these facts. In many cases it seems to me people have no clue at all how a tank can function. They think just by being there, a tank can instantly taunt everything, get aggro on everything, be in the perfect range/spot ect. Also, I believe most people are not at all aware how limited range taunt skills have (unless upgraded by spending DNA points). And also several people have the bad habit to go and attack the particular mob that was out of first taunt's range, thus getting themselves attacked and messing things up. I just wish they would give tanks a little bit of time to get the job done properly, and avoid being so trigger happy. This isnt a problem just for Protectors, but for Commanders too (and possibly even more so, since I doubt any Commander would max their taunt skills).

[Dess]

and if he didn't agro one mob, bring it to him... taunt has short range, and prot needs to put so many DNA in def and block he just can't put any point in long range taunt DNA.

I have long range taunt, and tbh i would never take it out. You dont need to max it 2-4 points are more then enough. But with that and maxed single targuet taunt i have a 21 or 23 m(i dont remember)taunt.
It really helps me pull dogs fast in JS without moving, kiting LW (sory, no resistances, cant tank it still)and keep aggro on hunters in JS.
Maybe if i have spend more DNA in Spiritual Intensification a mystic woulnt be needed for the rest to survive in juggernaut but well, mystics are easy enough to find

[champy]

I have long range taunt, and tbh i would never take it out. You dont need to max it 2-4 points are more then enough. But with that and maxed single targuet taunt i have a 21 or 23 m(i dont remember)taunt.
It really helps me pull dogs fast in JS without moving, kiting LW (sory, no resistances, cant tank it still)and keep aggro on hunters in JS.
Maybe if i have spend more DNA in Spiritual Intensification a mystic woulnt be needed for the rest to survive in juggernaut but well, mystics are easy enough to find

i have no problem to taunt full room in JS without, and i can easy keep agro on hunters : just have to cry/taunt fast, and after that, i don't lose agro...

[Dess]

i have no problem to taunt full room in JS without, and i can easy keep agro on hunters : just have to cry/taunt fast, and after that, i don't lose agro...

Im not talking about losing aggro, i dont have that problem either. Im talking about tauting dogs as soon as they spawn without moving and taunting hunter if he is not on Taunting cry range. 10 m its not a very big range for TC imh

Edited by Dess, 04 February 2011 - 08:07 AM.

[AngelicPretty]

LR Tuant DNA 3+ is like a must i feel.

[Hugh]

I've been with tanks with 12k hp and capped def yet they die like dogs in ST.

I think thats cos they get their def buffs knocked off and have bad resistance.

[Loyalty1]

I think thats cos they get their def buffs knocked off and have bad resistance.

No.

[Dess]

In my exp if a 12k hp tank dies that easy in ST its becouse the rad on his back doesent have nough skill crti% ir is lagging. Ive healed tanks with less hp than that(some with 8k hp)and managed to do quite well.
Of course 1 missed step you pull 2 extra mobs and things can go reaaaaaly wrong there.

[Famous]

yes we know your skill crit is amazing

yes we also know that you dont use much item mall

yes we also know you can reach good heals and crit without item mall or fancy gears

yes we also know you can do it all with s2 gears

Edited by Famous, 11 February 2011 - 06:08 AM.

[Dess]

yes we know your skill crit is amazing

yes we also know that you dont use much item mall

yes we also know you can reach good heals and crit without item mall or fancy gears

yes we also know you can do it all with s2 gears

You forgot im sexy

On topic, theres way better rads than me, ive been on both sides taking and healing and with some rads i had to pot like mad while with others i just walk through there without even touching them and my tank has really crappy resistances and less than 12k hp
Im not saying im the best radiant, i know im not, but i think im quite good and to have a good rad on your back its important.

So far i had my easyest tanking in ST with HeavenlyPride healing me and im sure with mooi, catti, steffey, nightwoman and many others ST is not that hard to tank