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GXs. Not Again.


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#1 Nombus

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:23 PM

Since the squeaky wheel seems to be the only thing that gets the grease around here, it seems high time the GX had its own complaint thread in the general section.

As a class the GX finds itself, and you may have heard this phrase before in many complaint threads, "lacking in all areas". Fortunately for us, this is mostly true in this case.

Leveling: Gxs currently are left in the dust compared to all other classes when it comes to levelling. While changes are on their way that will help alleviate this issue (larger AoEs for Rolling Cutter and possibly Counterslash, with a change in the damage formula to increase with levels), these are not going to bring the GX on par with other classes. The AoEs are still going to remain so small that the GX will basically have to tank the monsters (especially with counterslash as that is how its used).

Redundancy: Take a look at the amount of skills that exist for Thief/Sin/Sinx/GX and count how many of them are still being used once a GX reaches 110. You'll find EDP, cloaking, hide, and double attack, katar masteries, and maybe MA but that will go away when the AoEs are buffed. The class has no reasonable progression. Every new attack skill beats out the old, and the only thing that stays is crit DPS. If the character is to be streamlined to a CTRL click style, why offer combination attacks like CounterSlash and Weapon Weapon Crush so late in the game? Sura's are rarely played in the ctrl click fashion but have been given a long progression of combos that add to the available variations with each update. Would this not have been an appropriate addition to the GX class considering they are now the primary class who levels in the Ctrl click fashion?

Poor Specialization: As a class the GX specializes at evasion, disabling and DPS. Yet the DPS of the class is normally out-pottable in WoE so long the GX does not have access to a KvM weapon. I regularly slip out of crits and disable GX's by myself on my Sorc, and that's simply not right. The class has enough drawbacks in having to get in close, and only attack a single target that no class alone should be able to pull back, let alone outpot that damage. Their evasion in WoE is reduced heavily by WoE reduction, and their ability to sneak severely impaired by the gross amount of MayaPs, and the massive amount and size of AoEs. Fortunately there are some new sneaking skills available to the class since, again, the previous ones have been made obsolete. Also snap-to skills are finally being made available, though apparently Dark Illusion has a long delay. Over all, the class plays well in WoE, but is hardly balanced with other classes considering their lack of durability, and their extreme focus upon DPS which completely lacks compared to other class' burst damage. They're being beaten out at their own specialty.

Boring: The only truly new innovations to the class with this update was the poisons. The rest made previous skills redundant. At least Shadow Chasers, despite being primarily PvP focused, were afforded skills that progressed their old with the ability to chain copied skills into their normal attacks with Shadow Spell. The GX has found their old skills lost in a progression that completely forgot them. As such one plays Gxs in pretty much the same fashion their were always played. CTRL click or single skill on single target. Its tedious, its repetitious, its boring. If you are going to add new content, actually do it rather than giving the same old stuff under a new name.

Edited by Nombus, 14 June 2011 - 01:31 PM.

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#2 Nombus

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:31 PM

Ooops lag.

Edited by Nombus, 14 June 2011 - 01:33 PM.

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#3 Akin

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:18 PM

I don't main a GX but I have one and I don't think it's quite as bad as you make them to be. Oblivion Curse is the status affect I hate most in siege after the "cold mode" effect of Diamond Dust. 5 minutes of no skills is a VERY long time. Both of those effects make HoM and DSL/Arrullo look like walks in the park. Magic Mushroom is probably the most humorous effect in the game, I wish my Frost Joke could make people laugh uncontrollably lol. The change coming to CRC will probably cause a lot of people to cry "nerf!".

I have two gripes though. First the AoE of Counter Slash should be increased. Make it 5x5 and I'd be stoked. Second, it doesn't seem right that Chasers are better at spreading certain GX poisons than GXs. I'm not sure how, but that should be changed (perhaps by increasing the range of Poison Smoke?).
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#4 Xellie

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:54 PM

My beef lays with the EDP - SB nerf.

Clashing does about the same now as EDP-SB did pre renewal, without any extra buffs / catalysts or specialist weapons?

the heck?

Edited by Xellie, 14 June 2011 - 03:01 PM.

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#5 Kitten

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:56 PM

Stupidly long cool down on Hallucination Walk.

Lack of any useful AoE (at least this gets fixed later).

The fact that when hit with Oblivion Curse we can't even cure ourselves. Lawl what is this...
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#6 iCare

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:25 PM

I main a 150 gX and its sucks. Thats why 4 gXes including me of our guild is not playing anymore. Like old players, we are waiting on whats gonna happen to this game. Sometimes, id rather play on my phone than AFKing in game. LMAO

Making Counterslash and Rolling Cutter larger is not really a big help to boost us, yet they dont implement it.
The use of dual dagger/swords on rolling cutter is a must have.
Hallucination Walk is a waste of Skill Points bcoz of cooldown and after effect it does.
Poisonous Smoke have a long as cast time. not mentioning the chance on how it works.
EDP, Crit, and all the changes of Defense inGame mechanics made us do 75% less dmg pre-renewal.
If you dont have a +9 KVM Katar you are not a gX.
There's 3 classes who can remove our poisons.. Yeah one of em is SURA
Flee reduction on WoE is just too much for gXes, since it is our unique characteristic.
We can reach a high HP but unlike swordsman classes, we cannot kill with shield ON.
STR 100 + 20 FOOD (STR), +9 KVM KATAR, EDPed Cross Impact is a joke. Doing like 8k dmg on pVp against a RG with 50k+ HP, LFMAO.

DAMN, theres a lot of reason why our favorite class sucks. -_-

Edited by iCare, 14 June 2011 - 06:26 PM.

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#7 bigstuff17

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:31 PM

well, leveling a GX isn't impossible, just extremely tedious and supply intensive. you're pretty much drinking EDP & rolling cutter your way through bio2 consisting of huge mobs to even make a dent into the experience needed for 125+. if you're willing ot invest thousands of hebm/3x bm's, EDP and slims, then by all means, it's definitely do-able, but really tough for the majority of the server.
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#8 Daize

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:00 PM

I agree GX needs some love... I hate their poisons though xD
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#9 CheddarJack

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:23 PM

Since Renwal has come out ive lvl'ed my GX to lvl 111. Now this is my main character and also my highest lvl character. I just cant seem to get into any grinds with it. It is just so tedious and boring that i just dont see the point in doing it. Also the fact that you MUST have a +9 KvM katar to do any kind of damage in a WoE setting is beyond me. There is not a single katar that can deal as much damage as the +9 kvm katar. Even if you get the second best katar (whatever that may be) i doubt it will be even half as good as the +9 kvm katar. Im not saying "oh man you should give one to everyone to make it fair," but come on there should be some lesser alternative that can do almost as good damage.

Oh and dont get me started on green ales. They basically made the GX class useless even more since any DPS is basically negated by two green ales. All we are asking as GX users is that we be not ignored and pointless to the game. Seriously, if every GX in the game just disapeared right now, pvp and pvm wouldnt change one bit because the GX as it stands now does not bring anything to the table. Everything it does someone does better:

Breaking Emps? Na i got a minstral with a berserk guitar
Killing Characters? Na i got (insert your insta-kill class here)
Killing a mob? Na my Warlock/Sorc can take care of it
Poisoned someone? My Sura/Arch Bishop can fix that
You get Oblivion Cursed? WTF do i do?!?
Dodging in WoE? Na there is no flee in WoE
Oh you have the HP mod of an RG? Who cares you cant wear a shield if you are attacking and half the defense.

Edited by CheddarJack, 14 June 2011 - 07:24 PM.

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#10 Xellie

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:32 PM

RG have an HP boost from sader skill Faith, FYI.

So even with equal vit and gear, they still have more HP than a GX.
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#11 CheddarJack

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:41 PM

RG have an HP boost from sader skill Faith, FYI.

So even with equal vit and gear, they still have more HP than a GX.


Then that just furthers the point ^_^
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#12 UnspunReality

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:08 PM

Makes me sad. I have a 99/65 Sinx atm and nothing to look foward to. -/
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#13 Clogon

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:11 PM

Well at least GX's get a huge buff soon. I mean the new Poison Smoke that is being tested on Sak today is enough to make me drool. 50% inflection oper secdon and doesn't remove the poison from your weapon is a very nice buff!

@CheddarJack:
If you manage to get 193 ASPD, you are still the best emp break at 2 damage per attack when dual wielding or 1.5x with DA+shield.
Sura's can't heal the better poisons only AB can and it requires casting time. If you poison their AB only another GX will be able to cure it.
You should level up and use Hallucination Walk in WoE. Nothing Hit based will be able to hit you with that on.

GX are bad but not that bad. The problem is that they rely too much on a +9 KVM Katar to be good and have no good leveling skill.
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#14 iCare

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:18 PM

@Clogon: Thats something nice to hear.. TY
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#15 CheddarJack

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:20 PM

The problem is that they rely too much on a +9 KVM Katar


Thats what a few of us were saying...If you dont have one you are basically screwed because no other katar can match it.

Also i dont know any way, other than MVP cards, that one could get 193 attack speed with dual daggers on. Though i dont use daggers much i cant think of one that can do what the KvM katar can do and give you max attack speed for a certain amount of time.
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#16 Clogon

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:29 PM

Atroce card has a similar effect as the KVM katars. Also I said dual wielding not Dual Dagger since Sword right + Dagger left yields better damage. but when Emp breaking Combat knife + Atroce card wouldn't be bad.

The new Swing Dance that will be implementted once the pre April balancing comes will be quite OP as it gives 193 ASPD to almost anyone. The Cat's Hand service island implementation will be able to give +1 aspd enchantments to lvl 4 weapons like combat knives will be a nice addition too.
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#17 CheddarJack

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:41 PM

Atroce card has a similar effect as the KVM katars. Also I said dual wielding not Dual Dagger since Sword right + Dagger left yields better damage. but when Emp breaking Combat knife + Atroce card wouldn't be bad.

The new Swing Dance that will be implementted once the pre April balancing comes will be quite OP as it gives 193 ASPD to almost anyone. The Cat's Hand service island implementation will be able to give +1 aspd enchantments to lvl 4 weapons like combat knives will be a nice addition too.


This is all if's and when's though. We honestly dont know how well this stuff will work now or how it will be implamented. What i think everyone here can agree on though is that something needs to be done soon or there wont be anymore GX's on the server for much longer because they will all be playing something else.
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#18 UnspunReality

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:42 PM

How does one even +9 a KvM katar? Isn't 5-7 a gamble alone? I thought you can only HD from 7+. And they're like 2k badges? I got like 280 from doing seals. @.@ Ima be a gimp gx. =(

Maybe Ill just make a royal guard or a ranger.
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#19 slaves

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:12 AM

Knowing all the weakness of our class makes me wanna quit! but i cant let go of my favorite class.. we only have Critlock dps and our killing skills got JOKE dmg!

hope some good balancing will happen!
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#20 Myzery

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:14 AM

If you think GX is bad in WoE, you're not playing it correctly. It can be one of the strongest contenders in the right hands.
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#21 Daize

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:08 AM

If you think GX is bad in WoE, you're not playing it correctly. It can be one of the strongest contenders in the right hands.

Sure, if you consider being 150 and megged to be "playing" correctly. A 105 GX cannot match most other 3rds at 105.
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#22 Hacks

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:12 AM

poison smoke needs to cover atleast 7x7 and last significantly longer than the 12 seconds it lasts at max level.

on a side note while we're on the subject of lost trees, resistance to the poison status needs to be changed. i dont care how much vit you have, if you are standing within the AoE of venom dust, you should be poisoned. period. end of story. it's just stupid that 100 vit is all it takes to reduce poison duration to zero. everybody has 100 vit, it's standard now with 150 levels to spend on stats. i have two suggestions, either are acceptable to me just pick one (or both):

1: change poison duration reduction to 0.66% per point of vit (would require 150+ vit to be immune)

2: poison duration reduction caps out at 99%

going further off topic:
the assassin classes are the red-headed stepchildren of renewal. virtually everything from the DEX ASPD nerf to the EDP+skill nerf to the whole issue of non-GX skills not being able to pass GX poisons, it's like somebody at kRO hates assassins. you cant even level with GX poisons like leech end, it's damage counts as somebody else doing the damage and it actually reduces the amount of exp you gain from a kill.

WoE flee reductions, lack of burst damage comparable to other classes, epic fail AoE damage skills, so much hate. to top it all off, it's practically impossible for a GX to reach 193 ASPD without a +9 kvm katar. i dont even want to talk about how cheap berserk guitars are and what a 1 agi maestro can do with one.

i have too many complaints about stuff not working the way common sense would indicate. venom knife is a really great skill to have hotkeyed, it makes for an easy stop to a recall. problems? same problem as almost every other skill, EDP has no effect on it and it doesnt pass GX poisons. this will never get any attention from the dev team. grimtooth only gets EDP applied to the weapon damage bumping a 1200 damage grimtooth to a whopping 1600 damage. FAIL FAIL FAIL. after all the reductions that take place in a WoE environment, the damage can actually be reduced below 0 damage resulting in misses on those with extreme high def, and thats another thing, damage should NEVER be reducable below 1. it never was pre-renewal but now you can and it's retarded, status effect daggers do nothing on 150 RKs and RGs since their damage is easily reduced below 0.

getting back to broken skills, venom splasher could have been a nice skill if there werent so many drawbacks to it. i honestly havent used it since EP 9 or so i cant remember if it divided the damage evenly between targets in the AoE at explosion or not but back then you had to first damage your target sufficiently, poison the target, required a red gem, had to wait like 12 seconds for countdown or something like that and even if you didnt manage to kill the target in the meantime it would finally explode doing a whole like 4x whatever your melee attack would normally do. i mean seriously? i dont know anyone that even has this skill in their tree but as the ultimate skill of the non-trans assassin it's always been a boatload of fail. i dont know if theres anything that can be done to fix this skill except remove whatever it is that blocks you from casting it on one target after another filling the whole screen with countdown timers, ensure it gets the full bonus for EDP, do full damage to each target in it's radius and pass GX poisons on the splash at a high rate.

katars do not do enough damage to warrant going without a shield. seriously there are a ton of other two-handed weapons, swords and axes mostly, that have base damage of 200+ with the added bonus of multiple slots and/or some other VERY useful effect. what sort of weapon expansion did the sin tree get with renewal? durga. 1 slot, not even 200 damage, no special effects, not even level 4 weap. theres no assassin equipable god item weapon and nothing even comparable to it. old katars have not been updated to renewal mechanics, most of them the damage is so low, even carded with 20% race/element cards they dont even compare to their pre-renewal glory. either the katar masteries need improving somehow or the base damage of these weapons needs to go up or the skills used with them need higher multipliers or some combination of all these, ever other class has some manner of insane damage skill, GX will never 1-hit kill a monster of it's same level.

renewal really screwwed up the attack speed on 1-handed axes for sins. before, 2 axes might have had you down to maybe 160 ASPD or so and thats without buffs. maxing out as much AGI as possible, awakes, celermine, +15 agi food, even using windhawk in the mix, just barely makes 170 ASPD. daggers have a 50% penalty vs large size, we were given access to axes to deal with large monsters, renewal took axes away. now what?

rolling cutter needs it's weapon restriction removed, damage improved and range increased. theres no reason not to when you look at the super OP AoEs other classes have.

i've got atleast a dozen more gripes but this is already tl;dr
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#23 Myzery

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:16 AM

Sure, if you consider being 150 and megged to be "playing" correctly. A 105 GX cannot match most other 3rds at 105.


You don't need any god items. You pretty much need 150 or near it for any class.
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#24 CheddarJack

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:22 AM

If you think GX is bad in WoE, you're not playing it correctly. It can be one of the strongest contenders in the right hands.


Im sure you are 150 (or almost 150). You probly have a +9 KvM katar. Probly have a pair of Giant Majestic Goat Horns too. Maybe you also have a god item (you dont need one though). Maybe an MvP card. Basically stuff that most people dont and wont get.

Edited by CheddarJack, 15 June 2011 - 05:26 AM.

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#25 iCare

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:26 AM

If you think GX is bad in WoE, you're not playing it correctly. It can be one of the strongest contenders in the right hands.


Theres only 13 level 150 gXes at Valkyrie Server. 4 of them stopped playing. Pre-renewal i have like 10 SinX batchmate. I mean other players that i met when i was still a thief. Now theyre maining Sura, RG and Genetic. I dont want to end up like them. I'am one of Sin Class Pride, thats why i stopped playing for awhile.

Tell me whats wrong if those SinX PRO users quit being a sin class user, switched to "top tier bs classes that even a 8yr old can do gfist and kill someone instantly"?

this game is broken.. and if not taken care off.. a lot of core players will be gone.

-_-
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