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castling in woe


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#1 fasthands

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:17 AM

i think its time considering you can backslide and shadow leap now

show amistr some love

Edited by fasthands, 15 June 2011 - 12:42 PM.

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#2 Hacks

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:24 AM

shadow leap only unhides, does not relocate character.
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#3 Kadnya

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 12:02 PM

I do not like backslide being allowed. As much as thief classes will surely disagree with my opinion, I found it very annoying that a chaser who could tried to manhole me, failed then went for masquerade and disable all my skills and when I tried to status/hitlock with my high aspd, he simply escaped at speedpotion speed with backslide.

I don't even understand why my much weaker skills like assumption or basilica are disabled while a skill as strong as backslide is enabled. I know it sounds silly, a first class skill being 'strong', but it indeed is ^^;.

Maybe they could at least add backslide into a headgear/accessory so anyone can use the skill. Chasers didn't really need a buff.

Genetics can already permanently walk at speed pot speed, so I'm not sure if castling would make any difference... other than with the correct AI, you could basically program your sheep so you snapped past a whole castle, even better than a sura snapping (if the sheep doesn't die a lot in the process). I'm not sure if there would be someone writing such homunculus AI, but the possibility would be there.
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#4 fasthands

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 12:43 PM

I do not like backslide being allowed. As much as thief classes will surely disagree with my opinion, I found it very annoying that a chaser who could tried to manhole me, failed then went for masquerade and disable all my skills and when I tried to status/hitlock with my high aspd, he simply escaped at speedpotion speed with backslide.

I don't even understand why my much weaker skills like assumption or basilica are disabled while a skill as strong as backslide is enabled. I know it sounds silly, a first class skill being 'strong', but it indeed is ^^;.

Maybe they could at least add backslide into a headgear/accessory so anyone can use the skill. Chasers didn't really need a buff.

Genetics can already permanently walk at speed pot speed, so I'm not sure if castling would make any difference... other than with the correct AI, you could basically program your sheep so you snapped past a whole castle, even better than a sura snapping (if the sheep doesn't die a lot in the process). I'm not sure if there would be someone writing such homunculus AI, but the possibility would be there.


gl having 12k hp that cant spam pots getting through 1 aoe magic

anyways from what i remember reading i thought i read shadow leap working along with backslide......was assuming it would now that backslide is enabled
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#5 Pril

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:06 PM

Enabling backslide was a poor decision. WoE needs less relocation skills available, not more. As well, I'm sure castling in WoE would assure some ridiculous recalls going off. Ex. recall, manhole recaller for protection - assuming castling works on manholed owners, Amistr charges in and uses castling, recall goes off.
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#6 Nitro

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:15 PM

The thief class lost all ability to stealth because of saturation of Maya Purple cards on servers... Backslide being allowed in WoE gives the base class back a little of its ability to move around freely.
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#7 Pril

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:41 PM

The thief class lost all ability to stealth because of saturation of Maya Purple cards on servers... Backslide being allowed in WoE gives the base class back a little of its ability to move around freely.

Flying kick.
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#8 Myzery

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 06:27 PM

Flying kick.


Assassins can't flying kick.
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#9 DeadlySinner

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:02 PM

I do not like backslide being allowed. As much as thief classes will surely disagree with my opinion, I found it very annoying that a chaser who could tried to manhole me, failed then went for masquerade and disable all my skills and when I tried to status/hitlock with my high aspd, he simply escaped at speedpotion speed with backslide.

I don't even understand why my much weaker skills like assumption or basilica are disabled while a skill as strong as backslide is enabled. I know it sounds silly, a first class skill being 'strong', but it indeed is ^^;.

Maybe they could at least add backslide into a headgear/accessory so anyone can use the skill. Chasers didn't really need a buff.

Genetics can already permanently walk at speed pot speed, so I'm not sure if castling would make any difference... other than with the correct AI, you could basically program your sheep so you snapped past a whole castle, even better than a sura snapping (if the sheep doesn't die a lot in the process). I'm not sure if there would be someone writing such homunculus AI, but the possibility would be there.


You could use Lex Divina and silence him? It's used to protect themselves from being killed. Just like how AB's get Kyrie, to protect them from hits. And it's even better because not only AB's get to enjoy the buff, but anyone else as well. Thief classes don't get such luxury. It's definitely a trade off. Shadow Chasers are a support class for the most part, not really made to kill. Same with your AB, just a support class. Basilica would be OVERPOWERED because it could potentially just cut off movement within castles, which is the obvious reason why it is not allowed. Assumptio really has no excuse why it should be disabled anymore, but hence it still is.
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#10 Kadnya

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:13 PM

The thief class lost all ability to stealth because of saturation of Maya Purple cards on servers... Backslide being allowed in WoE gives the base class back a little of its ability to move around freely.


I disagree. Giving backslide gives the classes a much bigger advantage than cloaking/walking in hiding was. (except for recallers and few counted cases, maybe)

Let's accept that there are too many mayaP cards so now everyone sees you. How much do Gx/chasers really lose? with lots of AoEs and disables hitting cloaked/hidden people wasn't really rare.

Even more, cloaking/walking in hide were once of those balancing ideas that made sense back in pretrans, just like wizards having a low HP:

"Hey, this assassin class has bad offense... let's give it cloaking abilities and a nice HP mod so it is on par with other classes"
"Aww, look at this poor rogue, doesn't have attacking skills and its disables aren't easy to pull off. Give it a decent HP mod and the ability to cloak safely without being affected by AoE damage"
"Wow, look at this wizard. AoE strong attacks!, let's put a low HP mod on it so the class is balanced"

...then now, warlock still have the worst HP mod, even when they aren't the only awesome AoE attackers. The weak rogue evolved into a strong chaser, but still keeps the ability to hide and walk, good HP mod and on top of that now a better move than snap. The assassin with bad attacks kept the really good HP mod, cloaking abilities, but now is not so harmless. And now has a better snap than snap too.

We can just hope that lots of thief classes have no idea of how to backslide. Because if suddenly they all start mastering it, this is going to be soo annoying...

You could use Lex Divina and silence him? It's used to protect themselves from being killed. Just like how AB's get Kyrie, to protect them from hits. And it's even better because not only AB's get to enjoy the buff, but anyone else as well. Thief classes don't get such luxury. It's definitely a trade off. Shadow Chasers are a support class for the most part, not really made to kill. Same with your AB, just a support class. Basilica would be OVERPOWERED because it could potentially just cut off movement within castles, which is the obvious reason why it is not allowed. Assumptio really has no excuse why it should be disabled anymore, but hence it still is.


Being immune to silence is supercommon, plus in the rare case that people is not immune, a click on a 40zeny green potion instantly recovers anyone. Lex divina is not like chaser masquerades, which stops you from using skills and are not recoverable by green potions, sadly.

Kyrie eleyson is nice, but it is far from being compared with backslide. You can not cast kyrie if you are being meleed at 193 aspd by a Gx, for example. But you do can easily backslide away. Even if kyrie did work, an archbishop would have to walk away, probably being flying kicked and unable to escape as easily as with backslide. They are very different skills. About using KE in other people... In woe, it is rare if people stay with KE up more than few seconds at most, because damage flies to left and right.

Basilica in no way could block castles as you imagine, and it would be far from overpowered: You need a free area to start casting it, without any player, monster on it, and without being next to a wall or any obstacle (thus, there will be always a way to walk around basilica).

Edited by Kadnya, 15 June 2011 - 07:28 PM.

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#11 XIII_Eraser

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:28 PM

I do not like backslide being allowed. As much as thief classes will surely disagree with my opinion, I found it very annoying that a chaser who could tried to manhole me, failed then went for masquerade and disable all my skills and when I tried to status/hitlock with my high aspd, he simply escaped at speedpotion speed with backslide.

I don't even understand why my much weaker skills like assumption or basilica are disabled while a skill as strong as backslide is enabled. I know it sounds silly, a first class skill being 'strong', but it indeed is ^^;.

Maybe they could at least add backslide into a headgear/accessory so anyone can use the skill. Chasers didn't really need a buff.

Genetics can already permanently walk at speed pot speed, so I'm not sure if castling would make any difference... other than with the correct AI, you could basically program your sheep so you snapped past a whole castle, even better than a sura snapping (if the sheep doesn't die a lot in the process). I'm not sure if there would be someone writing such homunculus AI, but the possibility would be there.

If chasers are the problem then can Dark Illusion just be used for woe instead of backslide maybe or would that be too much?
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#12 Kadnya

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:32 PM

If chasers are the problem then can Dark Illusion just be used for woe instead of backslide maybe or would that be too much?


Dark illusion would be like flying kick is for chasers. I would like it much more f dark illusion was enabled instead of backslide.
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#13 DeadlySinner

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:33 PM

I disagree. Giving backslide gives the classes a much bigger advantage than cloaking/walking in hiding was. (except for recallers and few counted cases, maybe)

Let's accept that there are too many mayaP cards so now everyone sees you. How much do Gx/chasers really lose? with lots of AoEs and disables hitting cloaked/hidden people wasn't really rare.

Even more, cloaking/walking in hide were once of those balancing ideas that made sense back in pretrans, just like wizards having a low HP:

"Hey, this assassin class has bad offense... let's give it cloaking abilities and a nice HP mod so it is on par with other classes"
"Aww, look at this poor rogue, doesn't have attacking skills and its disables aren't easy to pull off. Give it a decent HP mod and the ability to cloak safely without being affected by AoE damage"
"Wow, look at this wizard. AoE strong attacks!, let's put a low HP mod on it so the class is balanced"

...then now, warlock still have the worst HP mod, even when they aren't the only awesome AoE attackers. The weak rogue evolved into a strong chaser, but still keeps the ability to hide and walk, good HP mod and on top of that now a better move than snap. The assassin with bad attacks kept the really good HP mod, cloaking abilities, but now is not so harmless. And now has a better snap than snap too.

We can just hope that lots of thief classes have no idea of how to backslide. Because if suddenly they all start mastering it, this is going to be soo annoying...



Being immune to silence is supercommon, plus in the rare case that people is not immune, a click on a 40zeny green potion instantly recovers anyone. Lex divina is not like chaser masquerades, which stops you from using skills and are not recoverable by green potions, sadly.

Kyrie eleyson is nice, but it is far from being compared with backslide. You can not cast kyrie if you are being meleed at 193 aspd by a Gx, for example. But you do can easily backslide away. Even if kyrie did work, an archbishop would have to walk away, probably being flying kicked and unable to escape as easily as with backslide. They are very different skills. About using KE in other people... In woe, it is rare if people stay with KE up more than few seconds at most, because damage flies to left and right.

Basilica in no way could block castles as you imagine, and it would be far from overpowered: You need a free area to start casting it, without any player, monster on it, and without being next to a wall or any obstacle (thus, there will be always a way to walk around basilica).


Even if that were the case, why would an AB be wandering alone in WoE?
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#14 LordVader

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:39 PM

Personally I don't agree with Backslide being enabled in woe. Simply for the reason that there are few ways to successfully prevent it. It's moreso another nerf to Ranger classes and warg bite. Warg Bite seems to be the anti-hide/evade maneuver, yet Rangers just got boned on one of the few useful aspects they have inside a WOE environment. If these movement skills are to continue to be allowed, I suggest adjusting Warg Bite so that it blocks the usage of all movement skills along with Hiding/Cloaking skills.

On topic, adding castling to easily the most OP WOE class is lulz. Constant speed pot movement isn't enough?
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#15 Kadnya

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:50 PM

Even if that were the case, why would an AB be wandering alone in WoE?


Was the archbishop wandering alone? I don't remember stating that o-o. Neither I think it changes the fact that backslide enabled inside woe is a bad idea.
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#16 kati3

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 08:55 PM

Why not allow the relocation of charge attack without the knockback effect? It's very useful to get out of skills like Extreme Vacuum.
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#17 DeadlySinner

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 10:06 PM

Not to sound like a-_-, but you're in a guild that should have NO trouble taking out a measly chaser. I don't see how it's overpowering as it only gives a movement advantage. Doesn't give a damage or overpowered 1-shot effect on anyone (looking at you RG's with Exceed Break). If it changed the entire playing field like a massive AoE then maybe I would call it overpowering.
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#18 LordVader

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 10:54 PM

BTW all 3rd class immobilizing skills in my opinion should keep the char from moving or using movement skills. Makes no sense to me to have skills that are designed to do one thing and then not be able to do that same one thing. Thorn trap/ Extreme Vacuum/ and Warg Bite should all actually stop you from moving, period. Not ignored as though the skill doesn't even exist. Movement skills aren't necessarily the true evil here, lack of counters is what makes it OP.

Edited by LordVader, 15 June 2011 - 11:41 PM.

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#19 Kadnya

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:19 PM

Not to sound like a-_-, but you're in a guild that should have NO trouble taking out a measly chaser. I don't see how it's overpowering as it only gives a movement advantage. Doesn't give a damage or overpowered 1-shot effect on anyone (looking at you RG's with Exceed Break). If it changed the entire playing field like a massive AoE then maybe I would call it overpowering.


Not to offend you, but I feel that you don't understand how good can backslide be. It would be a movement advantage if backslide counted as walking. Backslide is much better than 'a movement advantage'.

But if we are going to enable backslide because "it is just a movement advantage", I would like to request aesprika to give access to backslide rather than teleport. Backslide would be really amazing to have in pvm, and also amazing to use in woe on non thief characters ^^.

Edited by Kadnya, 15 June 2011 - 11:23 PM.

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#20 DeadlySinner

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:29 PM

I agree with your 2nd statement. But, how else can backslide help besides get you from point A to point B faster?
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#21 Kadnya

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:32 PM

Things like escaping the things that walking can't: hitlock, immobilizing skills, jumping through AoEs/ground skills without actually having the effects of the AoE applied, not needing to target, spammable at aspd, faster than snap,etc. And added extra bonus could be positioning yourself under other charas, emperium/barricades or other obstacles so you are harder to target, but overall, things like that, which walking can't do.n Backslide isn't just "fast walking". It is superior to walking.

Edited by Kadnya, 15 June 2011 - 11:34 PM.

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#22 kati3

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:33 PM

This or disable snap in WOE?
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#23 LordVader

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:38 PM

I agree with your 2nd statement. But, how else can backslide help besides get you from point A to point B faster?


Well imo, it's a matter of the teleport style relocation of the skill. It doesn't count as you moving from cell A to B via actually moving across the cells but teleports you from one cell to another avoiding all snares, traps, spells that are active in the area you traversed. So, in essence you can jump hurdles of damage which anyone walking (no matter the speed) would have to tank to get to the same destination. Not only faster, but safer. Lots of cases it would be the difference of surviving and getting boned HARD.

Also, there is a distinct advantage in a woe 1 setting were portal casting is still a big issue that won't go away anytime soon. The default orientations upon entering a warp can completely remove you from the precast area, or CP team, on a portal casted backslide (which unlike snap can be portal cast).
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#24 Andini

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:41 PM

We can just hope that lots of thief classes have no idea of how to backslide. Because if suddenly they all start mastering it, this is going to be soo annoying...


ding ding ding! that's the key. believe me, only a few people can make great use of backslide. the rest of the 90% of theif classes wont be able to. there is no suddenly able to. 10+ yrs of this game proves this. people are not going to suddenly get better and master skills or gain suberb reaction time.
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#25 DeadlySinner

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 12:38 AM

^ And this is why it was enabled.

And on top of that, snap has A LOT more control than backslide, so if anything snap is a slight bit more overpowered than backslide to be honest.

(Btw, I never said "walking" speed, I said "movement".)

Edited by DeadlySinner, 16 June 2011 - 12:42 AM.

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