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#26 Sera

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 12:47 PM

I like how he's posting here anyway.
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#27 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 12:47 PM

I was thinking redoing the matk on some staffs and maybe 1 int = matk leave luck the way it is.
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#28 Wizard

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 12:53 PM

I'm not quite sure if Heim will do the upgrade for gear since I believe they need authorization from HQ before hand... not sure about that...

There were couple ideas about how to improve stats and matk on irowiki... I think some of those are gonna be submitted... along with cast delay stuff and such...

What I liked most was the idea of giving extra damage buff for being job 50... kinda like making go to job 50 even more important to what it is now...
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#29 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:17 PM

The thing is skills already get modified by being higher lvl at least warlock skills they could do that but in the long run they need to fix matk or they will have to add some really high % mods in the future its just better to fix the MATK overall
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#30 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:17 PM

The thing is skills already get modified by being higher lvl at least warlock skills they could do that but in the long run they need to fix matk or they will have to add some really high % mods in the future its just better to fix the MATK overall
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#31 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:18 PM

The thing is skills already get modified by being higher lvl at least warlock skills they could do that but in the long run they need to fix matk or they will have to add some really high % mods in the future its just better to fix the MATK overall
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#32 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:18 PM

The thing is skills already get modified by being higher lvl at least warlock skills they could do that but in the long run they need to fix matk or they will have to add some really high % mods in the future its just better to fix the MATK overall

Edited by DeltaRay, 16 June 2011 - 01:38 PM.

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#33 Sera

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:37 PM

The thing is skills already get modified by being higher lvl at least warlock skills they could do that but in the long run they need to fix matk or they will have to add some really high % mods in the future its just better to fix the MATK overall
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#34 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:37 PM

I agree with the troll , its just not warlocks fixing MATK will also help priest.
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#35 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:39 PM

for some odd reason I keep double posting
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#36 Wizard

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM

Counting with Sera... has been 4 times already...

If they can't give extra matk to weapons, the only way left is on stats... that idea from irowiki of giving extra matk when u get 120 int as bonus and giving a different matk bonus per int point is not tht bad actually... but that can be abused with foods and more...

Nerfing MDEF can be another way to improve overall damage.

My guess is there prolly gonna be some changes after 13.3... so perhaps we have to wait until it becomes live.
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#37 futendoji

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:25 PM

Well, i cant really say to much from warlocks, i still get too sad when i try to lvl my h wizz and see the troubles he was having 1 shoting stuff, think i solved it, but i still will get sad when i see amped lvl10 jt on water element targets does max 15-20k in pvm, coz i still remember when my wizz used to do 45k lvl 10 jts on siromas, non lexed and on a lvl 8x wizz not higher that for sure, i hade so fun whit a priestes, or h priestess cant remember in that days doing 90k dmgs on siromas, but well the max i did pre-renewal in valk server was also only 45k, but it implyed a 3x hillwind carded rod+batle chant+buffs, no foods,well that did go a litle offtopic and nostalgic, sry for that.

Now ontopic: I understand the idea of lowering Mdef, but still pre-renewal matk formula was double as now or more, and it cant be so broken, if the actuall owners of gravity, Jro are using the old Matk formula in renewal, also Wizzards(all tipes of them, mages,wizz,warlok,all dmg oriented magic clases) are squishy, and thats just fine, but theyre suposed to be the ultimate dmg dealers, i understand the dmgs had to be lowered when insta cast was posibble, coz that would have been the ultimate op high dmg+insta-spam cast, but nowadays, whit fast cast but no instant one why dont we have higher dmgs? also compared to lks, they get cs, a 1 hit kill 1 target skill, warlocks get tetra and its one of the last skills you get due to prereqs and has cooldown.... Also calcs done when i finish my rk his db will do over 140k dmg in area.... and yes warlocks get very hig % modifiers to skills, but hey a 1000% mele modified skill does same dmg as a 3000% modifier magic skill does that seem right??
Also i think its easier for dev team to raise full Matk formula than decrease Mdef for every single mob in the game, so time=mony, so less time more plausible to do. I just lost a bit what i was gona say next...
O yes, for the one that was claiming about the cast time reduction for wizz areas, theyre already done, just not implemented on Iro, also i dont know exactly what Kro did to warlocks but the most up to date vids i saw, crimson rock was dealing near 40k dmg or so, so i think they have done something to try fix warlocks, for the rest i really love the skills at least what i saw of them, and what theyr descriptions tell, it gives space for lots off posibilitys, just i asked some warlock ingame some days ago, and it seems you cant have more than 5 elemental spheres at a time, that really disapointed me, coz it lets out the posiblity of releasing 2 tetras at once, also as i understood tetras description, it would have required 1 sphere of each element to be casted, so i supose the 1 element only tetra is a bug, thought i havent asked this to any dev so i dont know, we will see in the future.

Sry for the wall, but wizz tipe are just my most loved class not only in ro, in any game. I´ll keep posting as soon as i get my H wizz to warlock and i will kep reading, great ideas come from listening and analyzing what others have to say, btw also i like that actually now a diferent weapon really makes a diference in dmgs, its nice to see that we now also need equips to perform well.

Have fun be creative, also someone please try to cast hell inferno on an emperium, im really curious about if warlocks can become the new emp breakers in woe, i know skilss dont dmg it, but there is the burning.... Maybe i should have keeped that idea formyself, but it would be fun to see, also i got disapointed whit white imprision in defencive mode, i was expecting it to work like a more powerfull version of safty wall, keeping you or any warlok imprisioned able to still cast.
Lol sry again, i ended up telling more... Till next time ;-)

Edit: Also im curious how do you get your Matk up to 1k+??? it seems i cant figure out any way to get it over 700-800 Thx

Edited by futendoji, 16 June 2011 - 04:30 PM.

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#38 Wizard

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:11 PM

Well, i cant really say to much from warlocks, i still get too sad when i try to lvl my h wizz and see the troubles he was having 1 shoting stuff, think i solved it, but i still will get sad when i see amped lvl10 jt on water element targets does max 15-20k in pvm, coz i still remember when my wizz used to do 45k lvl 10 jts on siromas, non lexed and on a lvl 8x wizz not higher that for sure, i hade so fun whit a priestes, or h priestess cant remember in that days doing 90k dmgs on siromas, but well the max i did pre-renewal in valk server was also only 45k, but it implyed a 3x hillwind carded rod+batle chant+buffs, no foods,well that did go a litle offtopic and nostalgic, sry for that.

Now ontopic: I understand the idea of lowering Mdef, but still pre-renewal matk formula was double as now or more, and it cant be so broken, if the actuall owners of gravity, Jro are using the old Matk formula in renewal, also Wizzards(all tipes of them, mages,wizz,warlok,all dmg oriented magic clases) are squishy, and thats just fine, but theyre suposed to be the ultimate dmg dealers, i understand the dmgs had to be lowered when insta cast was posibble, coz that would have been the ultimate op high dmg+insta-spam cast, but nowadays, whit fast cast but no instant one why dont we have higher dmgs? also compared to lks, they get cs, a 1 hit kill 1 target skill, warlocks get tetra and its one of the last skills you get due to prereqs and has cooldown.... Also calcs done when i finish my rk his db will do over 140k dmg in area.... and yes warlocks get very hig % modifiers to skills, but hey a 1000% mele modified skill does same dmg as a 3000% modifier magic skill does that seem right??
Also i think its easier for dev team to raise full Matk formula than decrease Mdef for every single mob in the game, so time=mony, so less time more plausible to do. I just lost a bit what i was gona say next...
O yes, for the one that was claiming about the cast time reduction for wizz areas, theyre already done, just not implemented on Iro, also i dont know exactly what Kro did to warlocks but the most up to date vids i saw, crimson rock was dealing near 40k dmg or so, so i think they have done something to try fix warlocks, for the rest i really love the skills at least what i saw of them, and what theyr descriptions tell, it gives space for lots off posibilitys, just i asked some warlock ingame some days ago, and it seems you cant have more than 5 elemental spheres at a time, that really disapointed me, coz it lets out the posiblity of releasing 2 tetras at once, also as i understood tetras description, it would have required 1 sphere of each element to be casted, so i supose the 1 element only tetra is a bug, thought i havent asked this to any dev so i dont know, we will see in the future.

Sry for the wall, but wizz tipe are just my most loved class not only in ro, in any game. I´ll keep posting as soon as i get my H wizz to warlock and i will kep reading, great ideas come from listening and analyzing what others have to say, btw also i like that actually now a diferent weapon really makes a diference in dmgs, its nice to see that we now also need equips to perform well.

Have fun be creative, also someone please try to cast hell inferno on an emperium, im really curious about if warlocks can become the new emp breakers in woe, i know skilss dont dmg it, but there is the burning.... Maybe i should have keeped that idea formyself, but it would be fun to see, also i got disapointed whit white imprision in defencive mode, i was expecting it to work like a more powerfull version of safty wall, keeping you or any warlok imprisioned able to still cast.
Lol sry again, i ended up telling more... Till next time ;-)

Edit: Also im curious how do you get your Matk up to 1k+??? it seems i cant figure out any way to get it over 700-800 Thx


I see... I guess that's why lot of people complain about MATK being quite low if you compare it with what it was on Pre renewal...

I believe is just some sort of misinformation perhaps...

The big difference between pre-renewal and renewal matk is that on renewal, you have to actually do the calculation for max and min matk yourself... meanwhile on pre-renewal, RO itself made the matk calculation for you.

As of right now, the only thing you will see on your stat windows as matk are STATUS MATK (left side) and WEAPON MATK (right side)... of course, you you add both numbers you will have around 700~800 as Matk... but that doesn't mean that your MATK is gonna be that amount.

What it doesn't show on your stat windows are the %matk that would influence your final matk output.

The Max Matk formula is as it follows:

MaxMatk= (StatMatk + WpnMatk + WpnMatk*(0.1*WpnLv))+%Matk


Let's put an example...

Let's say an average 150 Warlock with 120+11 INT, 99+6 DEX and 74+1 LUK, have 279 matk as base matk and using +8 SoD with 280 + 56 matk which is 336 matk

Now, gearwise, we have Panic Valk Armor (+5%matk), +9 CoD w/HW card (+12%matk), (+4%matk) from SoD itself, Ninja Scroll (+1%matk) & 2 Medal of Honor (+10%matk)... so in total we have
+33%matk.

Using the Max Matk formula, we have as follows:

MaxMatk = (279 + 336 + 336*(0.1*4))*1.33 = (279 + 336 + 134.4)*1.33 = 749.4*1.32 = 989.2 matk

Now using Bless & +10 food:

MaxMatk = (316 + 336 + 336*(0.1*4))*1.33 = 786.4*1.32 = 1037.5 matk

That's using just regular gears... you get more matk from different kind of gears and such.

So, as you can see... with average gears, you can still pull a good amount of MATK, that plus using Warlock's spell formulas like TV (120*matk), Comet (50*matk), CL (25*matk)... and that's w/o Amp... you can still pull off a good amount of damage.

What kills this high end damage is the way of how MDEF can reduce it and even halve it quite easy... I would say that's the main problem as of right now...
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#39 heyxsean

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:17 PM

Do not buff warlocks, they're freaking op, you just gotta find a way around the -_-tiness of the class...hur dur. Look at Haseo, and watch his vids...-_-ing godly Warlock right there...like wow...did you see him kill that crappy RG?

Edited by heyxsean, 16 June 2011 - 08:18 PM.

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#40 DeltaRay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:27 PM

trolling sensors are tingling.
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#41 Wizard

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:00 PM

like spider sensors? lol... hmmm talking about that... spiderman 4 coming out?
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#42 Braska

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 10:32 PM

So haseo , how do you go super saiyan mode 0.0
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#43 Wizard

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:59 AM

So haseo , how do you go super saiyan mode 0.0


lol... Super Saiyan? steroids xD

But yah... in overall, there will be a buff... it won't be as much as other ppl might think... but there will be...

Ok... a hint... there will be a "certain" skill from a "certain" class that will allow you to increase your weapon matk up to +70matk for X seconds...

Combining that with your regular MATK, plus the new buffs with Recog Spell, Chain Lightning and Tetra Vortex, Warlock will see matk output and overall damage increase in quite a considerable amount.
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#44 Estancia

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 02:10 AM

Good old saying, "obvious troll is obvious."
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#45 Ceer

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:05 AM

You know there's a problem when Kad starts making sense. When I went to work on my ME HP, I found out to my horror that the skill sucked. Not only do you have a low MATK % modifier, but a horrible cast time and still doesnt work on the majority of monsters. This basically makes your character a cross between a support priest with too few hit points, and a magic attacker that will not actually kill anything.
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#46 sv003

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:13 AM

Warlocks are FINE, they are insane in pvp, usually destroying quite a few people until they get fisted or GoH'd (if your playing them right) and WoE they do their jobs quite well. I really don't see how they suck in pvp/woe.
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#47 Nombus

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:34 AM

Let's put an example...

Let's say an average 150 Warlock with 120+11 INT, 99+6 DEX and 74+1 LUK, have 279 matk as base matk and using +8 SoD with 280 + 56 matk which is 336 matk

Now, gearwise, we have Panic Valk Armor (+5%matk), +9 CoD w/HW card (+12%matk), (+4%matk) from SoD itself, Ninja Scroll (+1%matk) & 2 Medal of Honor (+10%matk)... so in total we have
+33%matk.

Using the Max Matk formula, we have as follows:

MaxMatk = (279 + 336 + 336*(0.1*4))*1.33 = (279 + 336 + 134.4)*1.33 = 749.4*1.32 = 989.2 matk



You are assuming the whole of matk (status matk & equip matk) is affected by % modifiers. I've never actually seen any information indicating that matk is completely increased by % modifiers, and considering atk % modifiers only affect weapon attack there's a strong indication it doesn't.

Edited by Nombus, 17 June 2011 - 10:35 AM.

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#48 Fibrizzo

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:09 AM

Nerfing MDEF


That.
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#49 Wizard

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:41 AM

You are assuming the whole of matk (status matk & equip matk) is affected by % modifiers. I've never actually seen any information indicating that matk is completely increased by % modifiers, and considering atk % modifiers only affect weapon attack there's a strong indication it doesn't.


Feel free to test it yourself on a neutral, 0 mdef monsters like some ppl (including myself) did to get these numbers... =)

I believe that's on wiki as well... and there were some examples from it as well...

Matk test

Edited by Wizard, 17 June 2011 - 11:44 AM.

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#50 Nombus

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:39 PM

Interesting, thanks for linking that.
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