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#51 Wizard

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:11 PM

No problem =)

The test was mainly because the difference between the wiki formula and the Warlock Compilation formula...
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#52 Hrishi

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:12 PM

Holy-_- did you not read the disclaimer that nobody wants you in this thread? You suck, gtfo and go kill more crappy players in WoE who make no difference anyway.

On topic, I mostly agree with Delta, a simple fix like increasing the MATK of the KvM wands or IMPLEMENTING THE JRO MATK FORMULA would go a long way. Issue is Warlocks went from an essential class in siege (as High Wizards, you could not mount a defence without one) to an "extra" debuff class that isn't 100% essential.

With regards to MvPing, most skills do decent damage, but they have cooldowns. The skills which do not have cooldowns do not do good damage. I've beaten other classes at MvPs as a high wizard sometimes, but this is almost impossible on a Warlock. I'll even go as far as to say Warlocks are VERY inefficient MvPers and I would mostly never take one to an MvP, even a champ (not sura) with gfist would kill it faster. MDEF of most MvPs is way too high, with methods to bypass them left wanting. Doesn't help that a majority of MvPs are shadow/holy which Warlocks mostly cannot damage well. It also doesn't help that we are mostly required to use a two handed weapon for decent MATK, which further compound the problem of our measly defenses. Switching is what needs to be done now, but it makes no sense that we have such crappy HP while having no "niche" that no other class can do. In Pre-renewal is used to be that High Wizards were the only good AoE damage dealer. Now, every class and their mom can do this. So I don't understand what we are "getting" in exchange for sacrificing our defenses.
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#53 sexytime

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:33 PM

Haseo, just a simple question: if you were 1v1 against afrikan, assuming equal skill, do you think it is remotely a fair fight? If not, then logically it leads to one of 2 conclusions, which is either warlocks are under powered or suras are overpowered. Further, ask yourself if you were in the same position before renewal - were the decks stacked so highly against your favor? I doubt it, since we had sw, instacast and other useful amenities. Extend this analogy and apply this to other classes. Then a rough idea, albeit hardly scientific, will emege that there are serious imbalances that need to be addressed. Indeed, other classes, too, need buffing but that is a question for their own thread. Your stubborn refusal to address issues that affect the nmajority, if not all, warlock users who don't have access to hibrams or +15kvm is rather egoistic, don't you think?

Edited by sexytime, 17 June 2011 - 01:34 PM.

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#54 DeltaRay

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:48 PM

Haseo, just a simple question: if you were 1v1 against afrikan, assuming equal skill, do you think it is remotely a fair fight? If not, then logically it leads to one of 2 conclusions, which is either warlocks are under powered or suras are overpowered. Further, ask yourself if you were in the same position before renewal - were the decks stacked so highly against your favor? I doubt it, since we had sw, instacast and other useful amenities. Extend this analogy and apply this to other classes. Then a rough idea, albeit hardly scientific, will emege that there are serious imbalances that need to be addressed. Indeed, other classes, too, need buffing but that is a question for their own thread. Your stubborn refusal to address issues that affect the nmajority, if not all, warlock users who don't have access to hibrams or +15kvm is rather egoistic, don't you think?

just watch his video , he cant wear hibrams in valk.
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#55 DeltaRay

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:50 PM

any chance that we can talk to blueness to make a private forum on "how to balance renewal" and invite certain users to that small forum?
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#56 s0rrow

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:52 PM

it is your fault to be not on par with the other classes for not having hibram's, god items and a +15 kvm staff. right haseo?
trolling aside, i am seriously hoping that 13.3 will bring some, if not all of the balance changes, along a decent reduction in fixed cast times for warlock.
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#57 Wizard

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:14 PM

Holy-_- did you not read the disclaimer that nobody wants you in this thread? You suck, gtfo and go kill more crappy players in WoE who make no difference anyway.

On topic, I mostly agree with Delta, a simple fix like increasing the MATK of the KvM wands or IMPLEMENTING THE JRO MATK FORMULA would go a long way. Issue is Warlocks went from an essential class in siege (as High Wizards, you could not mount a defence without one) to an "extra" debuff class that isn't 100% essential.

With regards to MvPing, most skills do decent damage, but they have cooldowns. The skills which do not have cooldowns do not do good damage. I've beaten other classes at MvPs as a high wizard sometimes, but this is almost impossible on a Warlock. I'll even go as far as to say Warlocks are VERY inefficient MvPers and I would mostly never take one to an MvP, even a champ (not sura) with gfist would kill it faster. MDEF of most MvPs is way too high, with methods to bypass them left wanting. Doesn't help that a majority of MvPs are shadow/holy which Warlocks mostly cannot damage well. It also doesn't help that we are mostly required to use a two handed weapon for decent MATK, which further compound the problem of our measly defenses. Switching is what needs to be done now, but it makes no sense that we have such crappy HP while having no "niche" that no other class can do. In Pre-renewal is used to be that High Wizards were the only good AoE damage dealer. Now, every class and their mom can do this. So I don't understand what we are "getting" in exchange for sacrificing our defenses.


Sorry to break your bubble... but I could care less if someone here likes me or not... hmmm... as I said at work... I don't get paid for that =P... I really don't care if someone think I'm crappy or not... heck other than you guys, I haven't heard any more complains of myself... at the contrary but as I said before... I could care less =P

It seems that you still thinking on the past... sorry to say this but this is not Pre-renewal anymore... there are new game mechanics and such... if you still feel nostalgic about pre-renewal, you might as well go to a server who has it... if not, just get used to it and find ways to get "better" instead of just QQing about how things were great in the past and how much you want them back...


Haseo, just a simple question: if you were 1v1 against afrikan, assuming equal skill, do you think it is remotely a fair fight? If not, then logically it leads to one of 2 conclusions, which is either warlocks are under powered or suras are overpowered. Further, ask yourself if you were in the same position before renewal - were the decks stacked so highly against your favor? I doubt it, since we had sw, instacast and other useful amenities. Extend this analogy and apply this to other classes. Then a rough idea, albeit hardly scientific, will emege that there are serious imbalances that need to be addressed. Indeed, other classes, too, need buffing but that is a question for their own thread. Your stubborn refusal to address issues that affect the nmajority, if not all, warlock users who don't have access to hibrams or +15kvm is rather egoistic, don't you think?


You can't compare both classes at the same level... since they do have differences... mechanics and styles... those 2 classes have different objectives in game, different roles, therefore, if you say, go to pvp, no pots and fight, Release TV, Comet or Chain Lightning, White Imprison will kill ANYONE regarding on who the person is... then comes the matter of gears, you can stack lot of mdef to avoid get killed by magic and warlock can use demi-human resistance to avoid high damage as well... simple fact, if you go with pots, the one who pots faster and can 1 hit K.O. will win... if you go with a GTB, then Warlock have no way to win... same with gods and such...

Is not that much as imbalances but different mechanics that are being apply since renewal came live... if you compare HW with Warlock, there's a buff and nerf at the same time... as buff you have more killing spells, you got different formulas for it and you got more HP than what we used to had... as nerf we have fixed cast time, the dependence on gear/high upgraded weapons, MDEF, and such... as you said... those imbalance need to be addressed and they are being addressed... but in no way that will bring back to what the mechanics were on pre-renewal for HW's... as of right now, you are trying to compare both mechanics pre-renewal and renewal, but those 2 are different in all sense.

The "issues" that you are talking about are issues that you find after comparing with what pre-renewal was... issues about cast time, matk and such... of course, I don't say that they are perfect now... but you have to understand that we are not going back anymore... pre-renewal is done and we are now in renewal mechanics... iRO is so far the only one who complains all the time about these new changes... perhaps because people were so used to pre-renewal that can't let it go... I got friends from kRO who main Warlocks and even when they complain about something minor, they just get used and get around these new mechanics... why we can't?

As you said, perhaps I'm stubborn with this... but I rather prefer test and try to find ways to make up for what we've lost than just sit on front of my computer, go to forums and start making threads QQing and trying to make GM's bring what we've lost... that might work or might not... but things are not just as easy as you might think... Heim said so himself... they have to be careful in balancing things or else we will have something that we won't want...

You guys mention Hibrams and such... get real... I don't own Hibrams... even when guild have them, I don't get to use it mainly because my playstyle... maybe if I decide to go AoE instead of single target... if you felt like my damage was too much or so... too bad... it was just how you balance your stats along with matk... KvM Staff was available for anyone who can get the KvM points and have the kp/luck to make them... if you couldn't do it, too bad... but don't blame or try to talk about the ones who actually made it... just because I show it on video that doesn't mean that I'm the only one... as I said before... I know several ppl who own high upgrade KvM Staff and even w/o them, they are still playing this class and you don't see them coming to forums and start trash talking and QQing about how great pre-renewal was for HW's and how bad is for Warlocks.

just watch his video , he cant wear hibrams in valk.


Indeed... but I kinda don't need it... and that doesn't mean I can't woe on Ymir... it was fun last woe =)

any chance that we can talk to blueness to make a private forum on "how to balance renewal" and invite certain users to that small forum?


gotta talk to heim or them... but that would eliminate the meaning of having an open forum right? sadly enough... nothing is easy in this world and always gonna be ppl who think different than you... that applies in real world... perhaps you should check that out as well =P

it is your fault to be not on par with the other classes for not having hibram's, god items and a +15 kvm staff. right haseo?
trolling aside, i am seriously hoping that 13.3 will bring some, if not all of the balance changes, along a decent reduction in fixed cast times for warlock.


Yes... same with megs, sleip, bris and bryns right?...

13.3 will bring certain skills that will allow you to increase matk somehow close to what mind breaker was on pre-renewal... about cast time... doubt it since Heim said that they will not be modifying Cast Time for Warlocks unless has been approved first on kRO... and there's no change on cast time as of right now on kRO...

You can still get 100% reduction on variable cast time with gears and such... it is hard... perhaps... but not impossible... and still keep good matk... but I guess there's no point on talking about that now right?
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#58 DeltaRay

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

DeltaRay, on 17 June 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:
any chance that we can talk to blueness to make a private forum on "how to balance renewal" and invite certain users to that small forum?


gotta talk to heim or them... but that would eliminate the meaning of having an open forum right? sadly enough... nothing is easy in this world and always gonna be ppl who think different than you... that applies in real world... perhaps you should check that out as well =P

exactly the point is to get rid of the ppl who are ignorant (thus making that a private sub forum)and work for a better solution to MATK.
apperently you dunno how to read since you cant read in english ill say it in spanish
parece que no sabes leer.
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#59 FiskBlack

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:19 PM

exactly the point is to get rid of the ppl who are ignorant (thus making that a private sub forum)and work for a better solution to MATK.
apperently you dunno how to read since you cant read in english ill say it in spanish
parece que no sabes leer.

Arent the forums free for all? Im mexican and my english is not perfect, if you cant deal with that and the different ways of the users to think, then you need to educate yourself or cry.
"Buff Warlocks" that is the name of the thread, this include of course the balance on skills and matk formula, arent warlocks based on that? I think Safety wall should back to the old formula right now is almost a useless skill, and warlocks are not the only suffering this, mage classes in general are just nerfed as hell.
Or maybe are the other classes overpowered?
When i saw this thread and read "Haseo not welcome" i was like WTF is this guy serious?! O_o
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#60 Braska

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:39 PM

He sounded pretty serious. Why would you need to question? it. Current SW is not a bad, but it could improve by increasing the ammount it absorbs.

Edited by Braska, 17 June 2011 - 07:41 PM.

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#61 Wizard

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:44 PM

exactly the point is to get rid of the ppl who are ignorant (thus making that a private sub forum)and work for a better solution to MATK.
apperently you dunno how to read since you cant read in english ill say it in spanish
parece que no sabes leer.


:blink:

No hope here it seems... N>new argument please... ok thanks...

Edited by Wizard, 17 June 2011 - 07:45 PM.

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#62 Viri

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:48 PM

Please just stop haseo, lol
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