33 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

Here is my (exaggerated) example of how extreme of a weapon Wanderers would need to even be comparable to other classes in any aspect of gameplay (lol). Performers actually have five offensive skills in their 3rd job, but aside from severe rainstorm, the others are so poorly conceptualized they are useless even in PVM let alone WoE where at least two of them are obviously designed for (song of destruction, metallic sound).

Storm Faerie's Soul Chain
A legendary cord formed of sea shells and kelp vines belonging to the spirit of the storm. Has the ability to conjure storm clouds in the sky that could rain down terrible things.
Type: Whip
Weapon Level: 4
Required Level: 135
Weight: 50
ATK: 185
Slots: 2

MATK +230.
Skill-specific cooldown on [Metallic Sound] is reduced by 4.5 seconds.
Increase the damage of [Great Echo], [Reverberation], and [Metallic Sound] by 50% for each of those skills mastered.
If you have mastered [Arrow Vulcan], enables the use of [Severe Rainstorm] while Storm Faerie's Soul Chain is equipped.

+1 my post if you think those skills are useless without a weapon like this
or +1 my post if you think SR needs to be useable with whips
or also +1 my post if you think Wanderer is weaker than Maestro (maestro could also have a similar weapon to this one though they really deserve a smaller buff than wanderers.. )

Edited by Jaye, 19 June 2011 - 11:44 AM.

[asayuu]

/omg Jaye. Teh wanderer topic is here finally ^_^

Now aya can flood here and complain too~

If you have mastered [Arrow Vulcan], enables the use of [Severe Rainstorm] while Storm Faerie's Soul Chain is equipped.

I don't know if this is possible by the game's scripts, but it would be great.

If it is not possible, at least... *remembers of that horrible KVM whip, or Glorious Healing Staff*

If you have mastered [Arrow Vulcan]' date=' adds a chance of 10% to use [Severe Rainstorm'] level 1 or the highest level you have in the same enemy, right after using [Arrow Vulcan]

Edited by asayuu, 18 June 2011 - 05:40 AM.

[Kadelia]

Can't imagine that being practical, AV--> SR in any situation lol.

[D111]

Wanderer can be very effective if everyone is lower level and gets affected by the status, but with a Maestro he still puts 150s to sleep, so I would agree that the Wanderer is not on par with the Maestro in that aspect.

[iCandy]

+1 to you! but i don't think wanderers are better than maestro... dazzler is a pretty nice skill for pre-cast and even on a 7v7 scenario.

Also, it would be nice if they make a equivalent guitar for us

Wanderer can be very effective if everyone is lower level and gets affected by the status, but with a Maestro he still puts 150s to sleep, so I would agree that the Wanderer is not on par with the Maestro in that aspect.

Wanderers also have DSL

Edited by iCandy, 18 June 2011 - 05:53 AM.

[asayuu]

[Autospell of Severe Rainstorm while throwing Arrow Vulcan]
Instead of throwing teh arrows straight on the target, throw some upwards and hit everything in the zone~~~~~~ 21 well-spent arrows.

The problem is the mechanics of the game, not the practical logic.

Anyways. I hope the 100% stun from Song of Destruction [Stated on KRO patches] bypasses all the resistances and immunities. [Maybe giving one exception to Orc Hero card]

[Maestros being better than Wanderers]

It's a fact. They have Windmill Rush, to boost physical damage. They have Harmonize, to make buffs and God Items useless. They have Magic Strings.

Edited by asayuu, 18 June 2011 - 05:55 AM.

[Kadelia]

dazzler is a pretty nice skill for pre-cast and even on a 7v7 scenario.

Dazzler doesn't work on 140-150 players since they all have 100 vit

Anyway DSL is great but wanderer is not the only class with a skill that can disable other players. White imprison, vacuum extreme, manhole, howl of mandragora, cursed circle, etc. are all as good than dazzler and DSL. And those classes don't have as gimped of HP and offense as performer. Fact is, we can't just do DSL, we need to be a lot more well rounded and not be horribly gimped at everything except being a dual client slave for gfist at mvps.

Skills like Metallic sound are supposed to give us an SP siphoning role (or a damaging role when paired with DSL), but its damage is SOOOO low that it drains only like 300 SP (useless when [players have 3k+ sp). With my proposed whip you'd be able to siphon like 1,000 SP per hit and hit like 2x a second. So you'd be able to spam metallic sound on a sura to prevent him from fisting you, or get a priest friend to lex, DSL the person, then do about a 42k metallic sound to the person that drains 4.2k SP. It sounds pretty fair to me!

Edited by Jaye, 18 June 2011 - 06:03 AM.

[Kagrra]

+1! I've been holding off on leveling my Dancer because of how un-useful Wanderers are compared to Maestros.

[D111]

+1 to you! but i don't think wanderers are better than maestro... dazzler is a pretty nice skill for pre-cast and even on a 7v7 scenario.

Also, it would be nice if they make a equivalent guitar for us


Wanderers also have DSL

Well I never looked that closely at their lips... Oh the skill deep sleep lul... Never mind.

[asayuu]

Skills like Metallic sound are supposed to give us an SP siphoning role (or a damaging role when paired with DSL), but its damage is SOOOO low that it drains only like 300 SP (useless when [players have 3k+ sp). With my proposed whip you'd be able to siphon like 1,000 SP per hit and hit like 2x a second. So you'd be able to spam metallic sound on a sura to prevent him from fisting you, or get a priest friend to lex, DSL the person, then do about a 42k metallic sound to the person that drains 4.2k SP. It sounds pretty fair to me!

Yeah... I was checking some stuff and totally wanted to ask. Is Metallic Sound 100% MATK or it has something based on physATK? Not sure at the moment...

Also. Both Metallic Sound and Great Echo have just one problem: Huge cooldown. If we could chain the damage like Genetics can do with Cart Cannon, it would be okay [Note: For who still don't know, the price of the CC catalyst is almost the same as the Great Echo one, so I don't know why the skills can't have the same cooldown]

[iCandy]

Yeah... I was checking some stuff and totally wanted to ask. Is Metallic Sound 100% MATK or it has something based on physATK? Not sure at the moment...

Also. Both Metallic Sound and Great Echo have just one problem: Huge cooldown. If we could chain the damage like Genetics can do with Cart Cannon, it would be okay [Note: For who still don't know, the price of the CC catalyst is almost the same as the Great Echo one, so I don't know why the skills can't have the same cooldown]

Its because devs doesnt play performers...

[Kadnya]

I would like to see the buffing abilities of wanderer improved. Thinking about what magic strings is for maestrobard, reducing variable casting time, and reducing cast delays... would it be possible if one of the wanderer skills could have a similar effect, but applied to fixed casting and reducing cooldowns? It could be a fixed cast reduction that stacks multiplicatively, like suffragium and magic strings do, so wanderer buff + sacrament would both be useful.

[asayuu]

Its because devs doesnt play performers...

They should ):

At least here the GMs can touch the skill cast times, delays and cooldowns.

5 seconds for Metallic Sound and 10 seconds for Great Echo [CC reference again: While Cart Cannon does not have any visible cooldown] is totally absurd...

But well. I hope the staff reads the post and at least consider the idea of lowering it in a little bit ^_^

We would be thankful.

Greetings from a dancer who hates using a bow. [Yeah, I leveled with AV as a gypsy]

It was supposed to give Box of Thunder's speed in the max level. But now it just gives Increase Agi's speed in all the levels

Edited by asayuu, 18 June 2011 - 06:36 AM.

[Xellie]

When I play my wanderer I dunno.... it kinda bugs me, I play it to be a support class, but it feels like Gravity have substituted some of it's supporting ability for offense. I would gladly have SR do 1/4 the damage if the songs were more effective or lasted longer.

[Fibrizzo]

Hey! Wanderers have an awesome skill for being inmune to all kind of attacks. I wish to have that on my AB to keep protecting and buffing my guild. Sad, sad, sad...

[Akin]

Yeah... I was checking some stuff and totally wanted to ask. Is Metallic Sound 100% MATK or it has something based on physATK? Not sure at the moment.

100% MATK.

As for the topic at hand. The biggest disparity between the two performers is obviously Magic Strings. It always has been. I think kRO had a good idea in the form of the Bard/Dancer Link from Soul Linkers, but with Renewal, it's wasted because Linkers are stuck at 99 and not too handy in WoE outside of the Rogue Link.

You can sort of see how they tried to rectify this in Renewal. They gave Wanderers Swing Dance (a better form of IR), and Moonlight Serenade (a skill meant to further enhance the mage class while they are casting in Magic Strings). Unfortunately, they screwed this up in multiple ways with poor implementation (performer songs cannot stack, Moonlight Serenade doesn't work well, MATK formula really stinks, casters are generally undesirable compared to melee AoE casters, etc, etc). Then, I was kinda expecting them to give fixed cast reduction to Wanderers, but they instead turned around and gave it to ABs.

Here are possible things I think we could do to improve Wanderers:

• Wait for the coming skill changes (I don't want to get my hopes up, but they sound like game changers. For example, if Swing Dance works as tested in kRO, Wanderers will be better emp breakers than Maestros as they can use the Sea Witch's Foot instead of a Berserk Guitar). Hopefully skills like Reverberation, Metallic Sound, Great Echo, and all the chorus skills will become somewhat useful as well.
• Give whips a 5-7 cell attack range (I've been saying this a long time, it is a whip after all, you can't hurt someone with a whip from 2 feet away). This partnered with the change to Swing Dance would make it hard to close in on Wanderers.
• Remove all status immunity obtained by stats (only cards or gear should provide this). Instead, status duration can be reduced by stats and level. For example, it could take 300 points to reduce a status duration to 0. 150 of those could come from base level, and the other 150 should come from a particular stat. VIT for Stun, or INT for Silence. This makes dazzler useful even after everyone hits 140+. This is a buff for everyone though in all honesty.
• Severely increase the SP cost of these hugely effective 3rd class AoEs. Many of them cost less than trans skills but are far better. This ruins the usefulness of Gypsy's Kiss.
• Remove the flee penalty in WoE. This increases the usefulness of Focus Ballet (it'd need a buff if you do this lol).
• Start adding some serious MATK to performer weapons as Jayed has suggested.
• Give us the new accessories they just released on kRO.

[Inubashiri]

There is also a whip coming that will decrease the cast time of DSL and Siren's Voice too

I love my wanderer but I wish Great Echo did more damage that SR does since the skill is more versatile that SR. The other skills just seem zzzz except maybe Moonlight Serenade for the magic users.

Wait for the coming skill changes (I don't want to get my hopes up, but they sound like game changers. For example, if Swing Dance works as tested in kRO, Wanderers will be better emp breakers than Maestros as they can use the Sea Witch's Foot instead of a Berserk Guitar). Hopefully skills like Reverberation, Metallic Sound, Great Echo, and all the chorus skills will become somewhat useful as well.

I'm looking forward to having a Berserk Guitar like weapon for her too

Edited by Inubashiri, 18 June 2011 - 01:13 PM.

[asayuu]

Wow, too many stuff, but let's count.

Linkers: I hope their third class come as soon as possible. Ninja's one is also in the way to be released.

Also. Soul Linkers and Taekwon Masters should reach job 70 instead of 50, if they jump straight for third class. [All the extended jobs planned to go to third class have max job 70 or even higher (99 for Super Novice)]

Also. Why does the Fixed Casting times does not stack? So Sacrament could change only... 30%, and maybe giving 20+% to Dancing With Wargs... And these stacks would make both classes self-dependent, to reduce the highest casting as possible. [And Nidhoggur/Rata card would not need to reduce 50% either, but 25% instead]

1. Why Sea Witch? Wide Silence? It would require "3" to work. Also, yes, the other performer skills need a urgently buff. I don't mind nerfing Severe Rainstorm. It has already a wide range [The highest from the performers skill tree] and it's a great skill to pass negative status from the bow, as Arrow Shower was before.

2. Range 4 might work. Somebody said to me "weapons with range over 4 are affected by Vulture Eye"... Not sure about it though.

3. That is the most important data to almost all the classes in the game. GX needs it, Performers need it, Warlocks, Sorcerers, Archbishop... The list is huge. Immunity via stat is ridiculous to who deals the status, but great for who receives. Also, immunity via stat is a nerf to classes able to "heal" the status.

4. Yeah. Why just Dragon Breath and Severe Rainstorm have high cost based on the percentage of the Max SP of the class?

5. Instead of flat values, why not percentages? [Like, my 150 DEX | Maxed Dance Lessons | Maxed Focus Ballet] gives flat 45 HIT. http://irowiki.org/wiki/Focus_Ballet

Why not giving 45% of the hit of the target to the target? Like, 45% of 400 would be near to... 180. So they would have 580 HIT instead. This would be even required to low-level x MVP battles.

[The same to the bard's Perfect Tablature, they also need to give not flat, but percentage]

6. If we attack with magic, we totally need it. Performers even have Improvised Song, the skill which casts "random magic".

They could also add Sage/Warlock/Sorcerer magic to Improvised Song~~~~~~~~~ hehe~

7. OMG ACCESSORIES. This one is lovely. Does it have moar ones~?

There is also a whip coming that will decrease the cast time of DSL and Siren's Voice too Posted Image

I love my wanderer but I wish Great Echo did more damage that SR does since the skill is more versatile that SR. The other skills just seem zzzz except maybe Moonlight Serenade for the magic users.

FROZEN SPIDERS! OH GIVE ME MAH WHIP NAO! [I still want the Rose Vine~~~~ Casting Siren when taking damage~~~~ <3]

Great Echo could work like the Assassin Cross' Soul Breaker. [(12+performers)*100]% ATK and [(12+performers)*100]% MATK in only one strike, people being able to block the ATK part, but not the MATK part. And if they don't want to boost the damage, at least lower to 1 second cooldown.

Edited by asayuu, 18 June 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[tioluko]

Yea, awesum.
(editing, i forgot what i was wantingo to say, omg)

Edited by tioluko, 18 June 2011 - 01:14 PM.

[Akin]

Also. Why does the Fixed Casting times does not stack? So Sacrament could change only... 30%, and maybe giving 20+% to Dancing With Wargs... And these stacks would make both classes self-dependent, to reduce the highest casting as possible.

Actually, Sacrament and Dances with Wargs do stack. The problem is that the server seems to cap max fixed cast time reduction to 50% so when an AB with level 5 Sacrament comes along, Dances with Wargs becomes useless.

1. Why Sea Witch? Wide Silence? It would require "3" to work.

I'm not sure what you mean by 3, but I was mostly referring to the auto cast of Frost Nova. Especially when Frozen status will be blocked by MDEF instead of INT. Not great since people will probably start defaulting unfrozens again, but much better than a guitar that takes almost all of my DEX and has no ATK.

[Drak231]

Is it me or most of the classes have their topic about unfairness compared to other classes?

[jax5]

I'd say wanderers would be a tough class to buff, not because they don't need it, but because their roles in PvM/WoE are not well defined (and in PvM because there is a lack of difficult group content). Due to their ability in gaining potentially useful group supportive skills, it doesn't seem fair that they gain abilities such as tank HP mod/survivability or damage in-line with damage specializing classes. At the same time, I think they really could use some buffage.

As a small contributition to this thread, I suggest the following ideas:
-slow grace gain the ability to reduce ranged damage by %. Bard strings can increase dps dealt; I think a good wanderer counter song would be one that decreased dps taken. The negative effects of slow grace would be a somewhat balancing factor to the ranged damage reduction.
-Swing dance increases aspd by both % and flat increase
-Dazzler gain ability to proc status effects (such as from weapon cards) and receives slight reduction in aftercast delay and increase in SP cost
-Reveberation gains additional effect: cause an AoE pulse of last played song
-Moonlit Serenade/Symphony of Lover changed to general AoE group buffs (instead of song-type which can be overwritten by other song buffs/debuffs)

Edited by jax5, 19 June 2011 - 04:32 AM.

[Kadelia]

Performers would be more useful in moving parties if songs from 2nd class could be casted like choruses that just buffed the party for 2 minutes or something. Would be nice if that were a 3rd chorus group too so you could have 1 second job chorus and 2 3rd job choruses up while supporting a party.

[Yenii]

+1 but I only agree because of songs. If you get a weapon like that then maestros should too. Honestly .. I don't see how Green Whistle is gonna help the great echo tree for maestros. The only weapon that would aid metallic sound/reb. damage is is a bow .... imagine that.

Mystic Bow

ATK: 75
Weapon Level: 3
Attribute: Neutral
Class: Bow
Reduces the SP cost of Severe Rainstorm by 10 sp.
INT + 4, MATK + 100.

The reliance on bows is just stupid. :/

Edited by Yenii, 19 June 2011 - 08:27 AM.

[Kadelia]

weird note: Overupgrades to a bow don't increase MATK like any other weapon

Gravity hasn't caught this bug yet because none of their staff actually plays performer and they blanket dismiss concerns of performer players forwarded to them by iRO