51 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

All I can say is I am glad you aren't in a position of authority.

[Ralis]

No GTB Cards for me, thanks. @@

[ABK1986]

Im just saying, it is crazy having three servers. But I am sure many, many will disagree...

I agree. I know the elitists on Ymir and Ygg would flip out having to be with us Valkyrie low lives

Another MMO I play has 3 servers but it also has 9 channels to choose from within the server, so Rag could do something like that to avoid the lag and overcrowding if they crammed everyone on one server.

I don't see this ever happening though

Edited by ABK1986, 20 June 2011 - 07:42 AM.

[Kadelia]

I agree. I know the elitists on Ymir and Ygg would flip out having to be with us Valkyrie low lives

What kind of comment is this? I play Ygg and I don't want to be on Ymir. It has nothing to do with what I think of Valkyrie players. I like being on a non-god item server that isn't spoiled with a ridiculous # of god items and MVP cards. I just hate the bot situation on Ygg else I'd be quite happy w/ this server. Merging me into Ymir would defeat the entire point of me starting over on ygg and demean the hundreds of dollars I have spent on this server since its inception. It would be a boneheaded move on gravity's part to upset so many customers in this way.

[ABK1986]

What kind of comment is this? I play Ygg and I don't want to be on Ymir. It has nothing to do with what I think of Valkyrie players. I like being on a non-god item server that isn't spoiled with a ridiculous # of god items and MVP cards. I just hate the bot situation on Ygg else I'd be quite happy w/ this server. Merging me into Ymir would defeat the entire point of me starting over on ygg and demean the hundreds of dollars I have spent on this server since its inception. It would be a boneheaded move on gravity's part to upset so many customers in this way.

I wasn't specifically talking about any one person, chill out. I've just seen a lot of people that think they are better than other people because they paid to play in the first place. In the end it's just a game and your reaction has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I'm allowed to have an opinion on something that is never going to happen

This whole thread has derailed off topic as well

Edited by ABK1986, 20 June 2011 - 08:11 AM.

[Kadelia]

I wasn't specifically talking about any one person, chill out. I've just seen a lot of people that think they are better than other people because they paid to play in the first place. In the end it's just a game and your reaction has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I'm allowed to have an opinion on something that is never going to happen

This whole thread has derailed off topic as well

I wasn't specifically talking about any one person, chill out. I've just seen someone call me a snob that doesn't want to be on the same server as Valkyrie players, just because I paid to play in the first place. In the end its just a post pointing out that was rude of you to imply and has everything to do with why you should be like "oh, my bad" instead of being ruder by trying to act like I was the out of line person.

I'm allowed to have an opinion on something that just happened. >_>

You just started an off-topic flame as well

[Ralis]

Baaaaccck on to the topic of the thread, if nothing else the spam bots need to be taken care of please. There's at least 30 in Pront right now. D:

[ABK1986]

You just started an off-topic flame as well

I'm well aware of this!

Back OT:

This "solution" was already attempted. The collateral damage was a bunch of banned people who weren't bots.

If they did it for people that tried to log on every 5 seconds for 4 hours it would work, as I said, for the duration of maintenance. It's a good plan, they just need to making it work so they don't ban real players. If you sit there and type your password a million times the whole 4+ hours maintenance is going on, maybe you should be banned to give you time to get help

As for the spam bots, they really need to make the filter client side, it doesn't sound all that difficult so idk why they haven't done it already? If Valk is the place most new people go to test out the game, you would think they would try to keep it clean.

Edited by ABK1986, 20 June 2011 - 08:27 AM.

[Ralis]

Who can really say why they don't. It's such an easy solution. >_<

[Kadelia]

ygg needs bot cleanup pretty bad too

[Kolmogorov]

Just merge everyone to Ymir. Having three servers at this point is useless.

If you are on Valk you get merged gears, cards, god items all of it, just throw em on Ymir and lets have a real MMO with thousands of people, instead of a split up community of a couple hundred here and there...

For the Bots use the system Ymir currently has, all the Valk players get a free membership to VIP from transfer, and any new people just have to Pony up in order to make a one time fee to join, then in the future Bots have to pay to make a new account if they get banned.


Im just saying, it is crazy having three servers. But I am sure many, many will disagree...

Totally agree! One time fee doesn't hurt anyone but botter/zeny spammer.

[GuardianTK]

As for the spam bots, they really need to make the filter client side, it doesn't sound all that difficult so idk why they haven't done it already? If Valk is the place most new people go to test out the game, you would think they would try to keep it clean.

That won't work.

[Andini]

iono bout everyone else, but anyone that woes/pvms on any server should be happy there are bots. i sure as hell am not hunting a bunch of things. maybe perhaps when ro first came out and i played, not anymore when the game is already so far downhill its not worth my time to grind, just to log on for woe. if crap took a crap, thats prob where it would be at. valk has a ton of botted cards/items/etc, ymir has a ton of botted cards/items/etc, and im sure ygg does as well. its a part of each server, and i kno i take advantage of it if they sell cheap things i need. anyone saying they dont is just lying to themselves. there are perhaps 2-5% of the ro population that hasnt benefited

if any bots are reading this, can you guys hit up ice dungeon and get some stuff for the +20 dex foods. thanks!!

Edited by Andini, 20 June 2011 - 11:03 AM.

[GuardianTK]

iono bout everyone else, but anyone that woes/pvms on any server should be happy there are bots. i sure as hell am not hunting a bunch of things. maybe perhaps when ro first came out and i played, not anymore when the game is already so far downhill its not worth my time to grind, just to log on for woe. if crap took a crap, thats prob where it would be at. valk has a ton of botted cards/items/etc, ymir has a ton of botted cards/items/etc, and im sure ygg does as well. its a part of each server, and i kno i take advantage of it if they sell cheap things i need. anyone saying they dont is just lying to themselves. there are perhaps 2-5% of the ro population that hasnt benefited

if any bots are reading this, can you guys hit up ice dungeon and get some stuff for the +20 dex foods. thanks!!

I don't know about you, but I've definitely been hunting those Ice Crystals on my own time. And I feel really good when I'm able to sell them at a moments notice at a decent price due to the lack of seeing those items botted. Unlike the other heavily botted stuff, I'm actually able to make an honest living for once(Instead of selling stuff straight out of the KP shop...). Made like 4.5m in Ice Crystals for an hour's worth of farming.

It goes to show that, bots do ruin the ability for other players to make zeny off of the lower-end common goods. If they started botting the higher-end materials, then we'd be in trouble if everyone had to rely on Nid Runs, C Bapho, KP shop, etc for decent zeny income.

Edited by GuardianTK, 20 June 2011 - 11:21 AM.

[Kadelia]

I had +11 gears with my desired cards in them, and hundreds of acid bombs to MVP the high tier mvps with a friend of mine before ygg even became an open server. If you need someone to bot your cards you're just lazy and trying to be competitive without any of the work or sacrifice; stop trying to justify it.

Edited by Jaye, 20 June 2011 - 11:27 AM.

[Wanderer]

Everytime someone comes up with a proposal to fight bots it gets bashed, we should asume they don't want to deal with the problem and they neither want the community to work with them. When we suggested that selected people could mute spambots it was scandalous, but now we have ralis broadcasting with hide and seek events, why can't other people from the community work on a key subject like this? If you don't want to deal with the problem or just don't have enough manpower to do so at least let us do it, this is really reaching the negligence line!

[BlackPotato]

Everytime someone comes up with a proposal to fight bots it gets bashed, we should asume they don't want to deal with the problem and they neither want the community to work with them. When we suggested that selected people could mute spambots it was scandalous, but now we have ralis broadcasting with hide and seek events, why can't other people from the community work on a key subject like this? If you don't want to deal with the problem or just don't have enough manpower to do so at least let us do it, this is really reaching the negligence line!

Same with ymir. Yet he's in a prominent woe guild, which is bs. And spouts their guild in those announcements... not the only one who has a problem with that!

[Ralis]

Same with ymir. Yet he's in a prominent woe guild, which is bs. And spouts their guild in those announcements... not the only one who has a problem with that!

I'm not sure if you mean Ultimate or me there, but I draw two very specific lines between what I do for server events and what I do with my guild. o.o I never have and never will say anything server-wide if it's not related to an event I'm doing.

Anyhow, back on topic... Having the ability to do server announcements and perma-mute people are two very different things. The worst I could possibly do is insult someone by name, whereas the ability to mute people can be abused to actually prohibit gameplay (since it does not allow you to use skills either). Trust is a really hard thing to come by, especially when it's a professional, money-making company... Having players Moderators on the forums is different from having player Moderators in the game, for much the same reason; you do not need to post on the forums to be able to play the game (and they don't have the power to ban people anyways).

I mean, I do agree with you, there are probably plenty of players who are trustworthy enough to take care of bots, but there's just too much risk of liability. They don't have the players under contract and in an office to deal with anything that goes wrong.

Edited by Ralis, 20 June 2011 - 02:23 PM.

[jax5]

No, they banned all players that logged in within some five minutes of the server coming up.

It takes time to set up a merchant, but bots use automatic programs to do it, hence why you see tons of merchants up right when you log in. All of those merchants can then be easily tied back to bot accounts via trades.

The point was undesirable collateral damage.

So, what will stop some auto vend program from setting a time delay in the auto vend process? Then, someone else with a fast loading comp who can set a vend fast (e.g. only selling one item and knows the price to set), might get banned. Eventually, a general majority of automated vend programs might all have some time delay, and the only people ever banned by it would be real players.


I agree with your earnest in general bot banning, but I don't think your proposal would be a good solution.

Edited by jax5, 20 June 2011 - 07:09 PM.

[GuardianTK]

^What jax said.

[Ralis]

It's not like it'd be a permanent thing. Bots just need to have a massive blow hit to them again because they're getting so out of control. I see plenty of merchants with shops set up right when I log in, and this would be a good one-time way to catch them. I'm not saying it needs to become a standard for every week... Do it one time when they're not expecting it.

And collateral damage is always going to be an issue no matter what you do. Sometimes some sacrifices do have to be made... I was perfectly happy to be banned for an hour when it meant a good portion of bots had been wiped from the server.

[igzz]

There are GX bots in geffen dungeon (poison spores) >.<

[Heimdallr]

If everyone would stop sending in tickets for problems we would be patrolling more in-game. Right now we have too many tickets to be able to have any time for patrolling, 100% of the CS AND GM team is taken up by ticket research and answering. Those have to be a higher priority than removing account's access from game.

It is not a desirable situation, and one that we are trying to figure out some way of relieving that pressure on the manpower research thing.

We do have a semi solution to some of the botting issues that should be in testing in July, but it will not help at all regarding the shouters and gold farmers. Certain methods of catching only work once or twice, but afterwards the programs are updated to bypass it. Such as the check for putting up a vend right as maintenance starts. WE could probably get that to work 2 or 3 times, but then delays would be setup so that they login 20 minutes later, and maybe put up a delay from login before shop goes up (to simulate how long a player would take to type out 12 item vend). Shouters, take almost no time to go from new created to yelling in your ear. Ideally an in-game downvoting thing where after x number of down votes the name goes on a GM list (after being muted by x number of down votes) so we could look into it and block it, would help. But such a system does not exist at all, and does require developmental work to even see if it is possible.

Captcha, sounds interesting, but it is bypassible, and could get highly annoying to normal players. Ultimately the thing that lowers their presence is repeated blocking and lowering of player purchasing. We are working on ways for players to buy from us or other players stuff they need, rather than buying zeny/items for real dolars to a 3rd party company. We certainly have to come down much harder on those bots, but we have to get the tickets resolved first and then we can put more focus on that patrolling.

I will not be surprised if we get something for easing the reporting problems setup in the next 5 weeks or so either, which could mean fewer shouters in the long run.

[BlackPotato]

I'm not sure if you mean Ultimate or me there, but I draw two very specific lines between what I do for server events and what I do with my guild. o.o I never have and never will say anything server-wide if it's not related to an event I'm doing.

Anyhow, back on topic... Having the ability to do server announcements and perma-mute people are two very different things. The worst I could possibly do is insult someone by name, whereas the ability to mute people can be abused to actually prohibit gameplay (since it does not allow you to use skills either). Trust is a really hard thing to come by, especially when it's a professional, money-making company... Having players Moderators on the forums is different from having player Moderators in the game, for much the same reason; you do not need to post on the forums to be able to play the game (and they don't have the power to ban people anyways).

I mean, I do agree with you, there are probably plenty of players who are trustworthy enough to take care of bots, but there's just too much risk of liability. They don't have the players under contract and in an office to deal with anything that goes wrong.

do u play on ymir? obviously its not you then

[Ralis]

If everyone would stop sending in tickets for problems we would be patrolling more in-game. Right now we have too many tickets to be able to have any time for patrolling, 100% of the CS AND GM team is taken up by ticket research and answering. Those have to be a higher priority than removing account's access from game.

It is not a desirable situation, and one that we are trying to figure out some way of relieving that pressure on the manpower research thing.

We do have a semi solution to some of the botting issues that should be in testing in July, but it will not help at all regarding the shouters and gold farmers. Certain methods of catching only work once or twice, but afterwards the programs are updated to bypass it. Such as the check for putting up a vend right as maintenance starts. WE could probably get that to work 2 or 3 times, but then delays would be setup so that they login 20 minutes later, and maybe put up a delay from login before shop goes up (to simulate how long a player would take to type out 12 item vend). Shouters, take almost no time to go from new created to yelling in your ear. Ideally an in-game downvoting thing where after x number of down votes the name goes on a GM list (after being muted by x number of down votes) so we could look into it and block it, would help. But such a system does not exist at all, and does require developmental work to even see if it is possible.

Captcha, sounds interesting, but it is bypassible, and could get highly annoying to normal players. Ultimately the thing that lowers their presence is repeated blocking and lowering of player purchasing. We are working on ways for players to buy from us or other players stuff they need, rather than buying zeny/items for real dolars to a 3rd party company. We certainly have to come down much harder on those bots, but we have to get the tickets resolved first and then we can put more focus on that patrolling.

I will not be surprised if we get something for easing the reporting problems setup in the next 5 weeks or so either, which could mean fewer shouters in the long run.

The Starsand exchanger is a great start. Perhaps adding more choices for items and ways to get Treasure Boxes would help?

Also, serious question... Does this mean you want us to stop reporting bots via tickets? =/