100 replies to this topic

[Mwrip]

You've probably noticed that in every balance thread, there's a very small number of people trying to stop any attempt at fixing it (one is especially vocal about it, but there's a couple of others). At first glance, you may think that they're either trolling, or they play other classes and don't want to have to compete. However, you'll quickly realize that these people ARE serious, and DO play the class. You may think this makes no sense - why argue against fixing a severely underpowered class if you actually intend to play it?

If you think about it, however, it makes perfect sense.

The problem with Warlock is that the class benefits from top tier gear more than pretty much any other, thanks to stuff like Hibram being insanely powerful. With 10-15 bil of gear, Tetra will one shot just about anything short of a 120 vit RG, and might even kill that if he's not sufficiently geared. Even better, since everyone is focused on the Sura (who they EXPECT to be one-shotting people), this gives them many, many, uncontested 1HKOs.

What this means is that a very, VERY small number of players are extremely powerful with the class, while everyone else is mediocre with great (but not multibillion zeny) gear, or just plain sucks with normal gear.

A few very loud, very vocal players don't want the class balanced for 2 reasons:
1. If Warlock actually worked like a pre-Renewal Wizzie with Lock skills, items like Hibram would be insanely OP, and get hit with the nerf bat. These players would rather have 99% of the community unable to play the class effectively than to have that happen.

2. Casters pre-Renewal were far more about player skills first, and gear second. Most of us liked this, and it's one of the things that drew us to the class in the first place. Now, it's all about how much zeny you can throw at your character, and if you're not answering that question with "billions", you need not apply. This makes an exclusive club for extremely wealthy players, and they want to keep that club.

Neither of these are valid reasons to not fix the damn class.

[Estancia]

Someone's Ja Na'd.

[Braska]

If i used hibrams on WL id rather use FM/JF instead of wasting time killing 1 person with TV. Just Sayin!

[Mwrip]

If i used hibrams on WL id rather use FM/JF instead of wasting time killing 1 person with TV. Just Sayin!

True. Tetra would probably be reserved only for the tankers.

My main point still stands though.

[asayuu]

The only thing I don't like in Warlocks is the skills with 29x29 area, used to KS everyone on certain leveling spots.

The skills are weak, but the huge area is the problem. If you ever tried to level in that Ayothaya camping spot, you can see how idiots and ridiculous the Warlocks there were. There was a day I got angry and used Classical Pluck to shut the warlocks off.

But now I'm curious. Which changes should be made to Warlock? Just increasing damage, fixing cast times, or both? I read the topics about warlocks... It's too far away from me, it seems like when it fails on Reading Spellbook. It makes me sleep. Deep Sleep.

[Sera]

Leveld my warlock with kaahi and woe blues ja na~

[Wizard]

If i used hibrams on WL id rather use FM/JF instead of wasting time killing 1 person with TV. Just Sayin!

I totally agree with this... that's why I don't get the chance to use Hibrams in WoE =)... even thou we have more than 1 available... I just can't use it since I don't do AoE spells... and I really don't like using AoE so no chance to have priority on using them anyway =)

I find rather amusing that some people think I use Hibrams 24/7... I do not own or get the chance to wear them unless main AoE Warlocks are not on... and even so... I believe my end damage is good enough w/o them =)... if perhaps some people thought I use them against them in WoE... think again... as my videos show... I use plain +9 Superior D. Boots (you can see the difference on SP when someone is using Hibrams)... just saying =)

Now... checking on what u were saying...

Some people including myself would love to have an increase on MATK... sadly enough, that would make our Spell formula get nerf... why? because our formulas are made for that kind of MATK... if you were to have more MATK, that would make other stuff quite OP... like KvM SoD that even with +9, you can mdef pierce quite a good amount of damage... you said... 99% of the Warlocks would love the change... I do believe that but that doesn't mean that 99% are just sitting there and waiting for changes... some people work their way out and learn new tips to get around these problems... like using Wind Element to bypass %element reduction from Valk Shield... there're always ways around to everything... just need to keep looking...

You might think that right now, is everything about gears... well in part is right... but in exchange for damage, we are not using shields... so keeping ourselves alive takes more than just getting all geared up... some people might have the luck to have Sac everytime... but some other who play w/o them, know how hard is to struggle in killing people and getting yourself out of the way to try to not to get killed... that is something you can't learn with just gears...

Anyway... this is quite fun... keep throwing ideas like these... =)

[Wizard]

Leveld my warlock with kaahi and woe blues ja na~

lol... same with sorcerer =)... I don't see anything wrong with it...

Perhaps u had the same problem as me... I'm not quite good with directions... so most of the time I got lost and couldn't go back to refill... xD

I would've leveled in slow motion with just Soul Drain 10... but that's not my style... getting around 3% per 50 minutes was quite good for someone like me who just play 1 hr tops cuz gets bored quite easy... to get that %, I had to mob like there was no tomorrow... plus it was quite fun I must say =P... kinda like mobbing players in WoE.

And it is Ja ne =P

Edited by Wizard, 21 June 2011 - 07:25 PM.

[Braska]

Leveld my warlock with kaahi and woe blues ja na~

i used Soul Drain lvl 10 W/Kaahi in nameless till 150. No blues required!

[Sera]

lol... same with sorcerer =)... I don't see anything wrong with it...

And it is Ja ne =P

I hate you.

[Hrishi]

You use woe blues on a sorcerer? Now I've seen everything.

[Wizard]

I hate you.

Why hate?? peace & love =)

You use woe blues on a sorcerer? Now I've seen everything.

why blue pots if sorcerer is a freaking walking SP pool?... then again... I rly don't like that much sorcerer... quite easy to level... not enough of a challenge to solo'ed I'm afraid...

[Sera]

Because I'm a hateful person.

[Fibrizzo]

The only thing I don't like in Warlocks is the skills with 29x29 area, used to KS everyone on certain leveling spots.

The skills are weak, but the huge area is the problem. If you ever tried to level in that Ayothaya camping spot, you can see how idiots and ridiculous the Warlocks there were. There was a day I got angry and used Classical Pluck to shut the warlocks off.

But now I'm curious. Which changes should be made to Warlock? Just increasing damage, fixing cast times, or both? I read the topics about warlocks... It's too far away from me, it seems like when it fails on Reading Spellbook. It makes me sleep. Deep Sleep.

The problem with warlocks is this:

On a fire armor player: Frost misty---->(target freeze)----> Jack Frost 5 (wich have higher damage on freezed targets)----> less than half life on a regular geared player.
Jack Frost is an skill with 2500% matk, and on fire 1 deals 150% more damage (plus the bonus of being freezed). Also the freezing status reduces target mdef so damage should be even greater. I agree the AoE is hugenormeus but the damage is ridiculous. Each time I receive a water spell in WoE I don't even care if im wearing fire armor or not and most of players do the same because of that.

Of course a well geared WL can 1HKO people but a monk with an NPC stunner can deal even more damage with gfist than a warlock with "regular gears".

Edited by Fibrizzo, 21 June 2011 - 07:35 PM.

[FiskBlack]

Because I'm a hateful person.

Wut sera wut

Spoiler

The problem with warlocks is this:

On a fire armor player: Frost misty---->(target freeze)----> Jack Frost 5 (wich have higher damage on freezed targets)----> less than half life on a regular geared player.
Jack Frost is an skill with 2500% matk, and on fire 1 deals 150% more damage (plus the bonus of being freezed). Also the freezing status reduces target mdef so damage should be even greater. I agree the AoE is hugenormeus but the damage is ridiculous. Each time I receive a water spell in WoE I don't even care if im wearing fire armor or not and most of players do the same because of that.

Of course a well geared WL can 1HKO people but a monk with an NPC stunner can deal even more damage with gfist than a warlock with "regular gears".

Sorcs can't even do that... just sayin

Edited by FiskBlack, 21 June 2011 - 07:53 PM.

[Siunar]

Of course a well geared WL can 1HKO people but a monk with an NPC stunner can deal even more damage with gfist than a warlock with "regular gears".

Isnt the balancing factor behind this, the fact that the monk (Sura) is using something like 3,000 SP to do so, where as the Lock is using around 260 SP?

[liang2]

1 ale can outpot Tetra since it does uncontinuous damage. we can probably react to pop an ale when Tetra is doing the 3rd hit unless the max hp is too little to tank the 2nd hit. a bad gear character with decent max hp can outpot tetra with 2 ale and fast reaction.

[GuardianTK]

Could have been 2 HoM's or some sp draining skill that affected the Sorcerer, forcing them to have to use a WoE blue pot. Just saying. 99% of Sorcerers go into WoE at 85% weight and over anyways. You can't Indulge if you have 0sp.

[Trixdee]

I am not sure I understand the point of the thread. How do Warlocks need to be "fixed"? They are still the slowest AND easiest to kill in the game even though they can set up an instant with a setup skill. Top Gear like Hibrams and Bryn that the average player will never own isn't a reason to nerf further. So nerf the whole because of a few? I'm not sure i understand.

Edit: Sorry Mrwip for misunderstanding your point. ^_^;

Edited by Trixdee, 21 June 2011 - 08:50 PM.

[Ularis]

The only thing that needs to be fixed is the fixed cast time on skills both Wizard/Warlocks skills. SG/LoV/MS is just -.- I end up using 2 Siroma and CB + Mystical Amp.

[Sera]

I am not sure I understand the point of the thread. How do Warlocks need to be "fixed"? They are still the slowest AND easiest to kill in the game even though they can set up an instant with a setup skill. Top Gear like Hibrams and Bryn that the average player will never own isn't a reason to nerf further. So nerf the whole because of a few? I'm not sure i understand.

You didn't really read the thread did you.

Basically a few of the better geared players who are rolling cash have been loudly protesting any buffs for this class to keep the class exclusive, and the OP feels that there are legitimate problems for the class when played by average players that may not be addressed because of the vocal few.

[Trixdee]

I did read, I am sorry I misunderstood. But I understand better now.

[shado]

You didn't really read the thread did you.

Basically a few of the better geared players who are rolling cash have been loudly protesting any buffs for this class to keep the class exclusive, and the OP feels that there are legitimate problems for the class when played by average players that may not be addressed because of the vocal few.

He didn't write it very well, good translation

[Wizard]

Because I'm a hateful person.

Don't be... =(

1 ale can outpot Tetra since it does uncontinuous damage. we can probably react to pop an ale when Tetra is doing the 3rd hit unless the max hp is too little to tank the 2nd hit. a bad gear character with decent max hp can outpot tetra with 2 ale and fast reaction.

Yeah... I believe that's mainly because renewal mechanics... you guys remember pre-renewal, when casting Firebolt 10 on WoE was dealing all damage in first hit? kinda like Sonic Blow from Sinxs..., but at the same time, PvP pre-renewal wasn't like that... you were receiving damage per hit 1 by 1... I think now we have kinda like old pre-renewal mechanics applied to renewal WoE and that's why these skills deal 1 hit at the time... it seems similar to me in any case... but it would be good if it were like Sura's GoH... all damage on first hit.

Could have been 2 HoM's or some sp draining skill that affected the Sorcerer, forcing them to have to use a WoE blue pot. Just saying. 99% of Sorcerers go into WoE at 85% weight and over anyways. You can't Indulge if you have 0sp.

Even that last Sat was first time playing Sorcerer on WoE, I didn't have the chance to indulge myself lol... using pots was quite easy that I did it w/o even noticing...

The only thing that needs to be fixed is the fixed cast time on skills both Wizard/Warlocks skills. SG/LoV/MS is just -.- I end up using 2 Siroma and CB + Mystical Amp.

Indeed... HW skills are the most affected with these Renewal Mechanics... not everyone is Warlock already to bypass some fixed cast time with Radius...

[Sera]

I'm not sure why you prefer pre-renewal mechanics, you were a garbage nobody then. We rolled your entire guild with an attendance of like 5 people and I didn't even bother to take off DR to fight you because it wasn't worth the effort.

You're not a smart player, quite the opposite. All the smart players are low level now, because they were smart enough to know when to quit.