30 replies to this topic

[Gojio]

It's unbelievable.

I just tried to craft 3 Po7s, I have 1173 con (18 less than max I guess).

From grade 3 to grade 5 it was fine.

Grade 6: out of 6 Po6s 1 failed.
Grade 7: with my 5 Po6s left I could make 2 Po7s and have a Po6 left but no, one po7 failed on gems so I failed 50% of what I had to make.

Went to grab 48 new Po2s to make 3 Po6s.

From grade 3 to 4 it was fine.

Grade 5: out of 6 Po5s 1 failed on gems (using Ether, the bar said "Easy")
Grade 6: both succeeded so I had 2 Po6s and 1 spare Po5
Grade 7: I could only make 1 Po7 with those 2 Po6s, but NO, IT FAILED AGAIN ON GEMS FFS!

What the hell is this?? I'm tired of wasting my time crafting and end up wasting mats. Same happens with D7 and some more gems.

For christ's sake fix this.

[haiangel]

Agree with Albe,
My artisan has 1145 Con, And I did failed On T5..
Wtf?
Even when it says Easy, You fail alot somtimes

[MidnightSmurf]

Got 1156 Con on my gem-crafter, less then you but still quite good.

Lost 2 D6 when I tried to do D7. Used Hermes as Chemical.

Edit: This was yesterday, don't have to write my previous failures^^

Edited by MidnightSmurf, 28 June 2011 - 05:02 AM.

[ZookeeperAndy]

It's ok, Albe, for the low affordable price of only 400 IM Points, they'll add a "+10% Crafting Success for Gems!" Passive (Along with 12+ other passives for all the other crafts in the game, for a total of only 5200 points, to get an advantage over the other lame free to play crafters!) And don't forget to add the cheap 50 points for each "Recover 50% of Previous Crafting Failure" Scroll to recover such losses.

Hooray Item Mall!

[Gojio]

It's ok, Albe, for the low affordable price of only 400 IM Points, they'll add a "+10% Crafting Success for Gems!" Passive (Along with 12+ other passives for all the other crafts in the game, for a total of only 5200 points, to get an advantage over the other lame free to play crafters!) And don't forget to add the cheap 50 points for each "Recover 50% of Previous Crafting Failure" Scroll to recover such losses.

Hooray Item Mall!

lmao that would be epic...

/sadsarcasm

[haiangel]

That would be epic But it can still happen you know,
They might do it to COVER this thing up like they do with the drop rate.

[LadyPsyber]

It's unbelievable.

I just tried to craft 3 Po7s, I have 1173 con (18 less than max I guess).

From grade 3 to grade 5 it was fine.

Grade 6: out of 6 Po6s 1 failed.
Grade 7: with my 5 Po6s left I could make 2 Po7s and have a Po6 left but no, one po7 failed on gems so I failed 50% of what I had to make.

Went to grab 48 new Po2s to make 3 Po6s.

From grade 3 to 4 it was fine.

Grade 5: out of 6 Po5s 1 failed on gems (using Ether, the bar said "Easy")
Grade 6: both succeeded so I had 2 Po6s and 1 spare Po5
Grade 7: I could only make 1 Po7 with those 2 Po6s, but NO, IT FAILED AGAIN ON GEMS FFS!

What the hell is this?? I'm tired of wasting my time crafting and end up wasting mats. Same happens with D7 and some more gems.

For christ's sake fix this.

We have 1188 con. We've lost over 15-20 7th grade gems to this in the last week. (3 of them were d7s).

Here's some background...about 3 months ago I created a ticket about some weird things that go on with the gem crafting system. Mostly related to failures coming in bunches as opposed to being random. It was about getting weird failures when crafting on "Easy". It was also about the failures occuring way more often on Gem than other heart or chem. After submitting 11ty billion screenshots of a ridiculous amount of failures/types of failures with our char with 5 con less than max, the ticket DISAPPEARED. A subsequent ticket asking where the hell my massive ticket went never went anywhere other saying they were working on it. Zeppelin himself was involved in the ticket. I put HOURS into working with the gm team/creating screenshots/data for them. As a guinea pig I lost many millions in mats.
We were losing quite a bit more than we were before and/or losing more than we should given the quality of mats/amount of con. We also though that the difficulty of topaz/pink opal/sapphire/garnet/ruby/emerald/peridot was set too high as they never become "easy" for 6 or 7 grade attempts no matter how much con or what quality of mats you use. The remaining gems respond for 6/7 grade if you have high con/good mats as easier. I think the ones I listed are too hard.

If you look at the amount of mats we've lost to weird fails, we've lost a billion zulie over the last 3 months PLUS the ones lost to what should be regular fails as part of a realistic game. YES we craft that much although if they don't fix this crap AND SOON, we won't be doing any more.

I can only wonder if they finally decided to act upon my ticket and their "fix" has done the regular thing their fixes generally do which is to act 100% against whatever its supposed to fix.

[Gojio]

We have 1188 con. We've lost over 15-20 7th grade gems to this in the last week. (3 of them were d7s).

Here's some background...about 3 months ago I created a ticket about some weird things that go on with the gem crafting system. Mostly related to failures coming in bunches as opposed to being random. It was about getting weird failures when crafting on "Easy". It was also about the failures occuring way more often on Gem than other heart or chem. After submitting 11ty billion screenshots of a ridiculous amount of failures/types of failures with our char with 5 con less than max, the ticket DISAPPEARED. A subsequent ticket asking where the hell my massive ticket went never went anywhere other saying they were working on it. Zeppelin himself was involved in the ticket. I put HOURS into working with the gm team/creating screenshots/data for them. As a guinea pig I lost many millions in mats.
We were losing quite a bit more than we were before and/or losing more than we should given the quality of mats/amount of con. We also though that the difficulty of topaz/pink opal/sapphire/garnet/ruby/emerald/peridot was set too high as they never become "easy" for 6 or 7 grade attempts no matter how much con or what quality of mats you use. The remaining gems respond for 6/7 grade if you have high con/good mats as easier. I think the ones I listed are too hard.

If you look at the amount of mats we've lost to weird fails, we've lost a billion zulie over the last 3 months PLUS the ones lost to what should be regular fails as part of a realistic game. YES we craft that much although if they don't fix this crap AND SOON, we won't be doing any more.

I can only wonder if they finally decided to act upon my ticket and their "fix" has done the regular thing their fixes generally do which is to act 100% against whatever its supposed to fix.

I totally understand, it's insane. Having 1150 con and max con practically makes no difference, whenever you see "Fair" get ready for a bunch of failures, no matter what.

They seriously have to take a look at this, and elaborate a real "Risk quantifier" that takes into consideration the chemical we're using and our CON.

[bluehell]

I agree that its too hard to fail right now, but you absolutely need to fail sometimes guys. If you never failed everyone would get a gem crafter. I had a gem crafter about 6months ago, cost me 40mil to make d7's and resold them for 90mil each. I know the gem prices and hearts are up, which would raise the cost to craft, and the mats are limited right now, So i do understand the prices of r7's,t7's, etc etc, but d7s are way to high. They dont cost even near 150mil to craft. If you have noticed, only rich people are complaining about this, I dont see poor people whining. I know its making it hard to craft, the limited mats, and constant failing are driving the prices up. Gems are an absolute essential for this game. They should be cheap, but I personally think that if its costing someone 55-75mil to craft a d7, they should not go and sell it for 150. Just another case of the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. If everyone wants gem prices, mat prices, item mall points, etc etc to get lower, we need to get new players in the game. Ask a friend to join.

[Gojio]

I agree that its too hard to fail right now, but you absolutely need to fail sometimes guys. If you never failed everyone would get a gem crafter. I had a gem crafter about 6months ago, cost me 40mil to make d7's and resold them for 90mil each. I know the gem prices and hearts are up, which would raise the cost to craft, and the mats are limited right now, So i do understand the prices of r7's,t7's, etc etc, but d7s are way to high. They dont cost even near 150mil to craft. If you have noticed, only rich people are complaining about this, I dont see poor people whining. I know its making it hard to craft, the limited mats, and constant failing are driving the prices up. Gems are an absolute essential for this game. They should be cheap, but I personally think that if its costing someone 55-75mil to craft a d7, they should not go and sell it for 150. Just another case of the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. If everyone wants gem prices, mat prices, item mall points, etc etc to get lower, we need to get new players in the game. Ask a friend to join.

I agree we have to fail sometimes, but on some gems it's insane. Did u read about my experience with those 3 Po7s? With D7s is very similar, I can't make a couple D7s straight because with a super high chance one will fail on gems. Before changing the gem system 90% of the failures happened on hearts\chems and I could deal with it. Now 90% of them happens on gems.

[Genesis]

I just tried to craft 3 Po7s, I have 1173 con (18 less than max I guess).

From grade 3 to grade 5 it was fine.

Grade 6: out of 6 Po6s 1 failed.
Grade 7: with my 5 Po6s left I could make 2 Po7s and have a Po6 left but no, one po7 failed on gems so I failed 50% of what I had to make.

Went to grab 48 new Po2s to make 3 Po6s.

From grade 3 to 4 it was fine.

Grade 5: out of 6 Po5s 1 failed on gems (using Ether, the bar said "Easy")
Grade 6: both succeeded so I had 2 Po6s and 1 spare Po5
Grade 7: I could only make 1 Po7 with those 2 Po6s, but NO, IT FAILED AGAIN ON GEMS FFS!

Easy does not equal Guaranteed, there is always a chance of failure no matter how high your level or CON is. Based on your level and CON, you have significantly increased your chances of success on the higher grade gems, however you cannot completely overcome the chance of having a failure.

What the hell is this?? I'm tired of wasting my time crafting and end up wasting mats. Same happens with D7 and some more gems.

For christ's sake fix this.

There's nothing to "fix". Failure happens in crafting just as it happens in refining or any other system that relies on chance, it's something you're going to have to accept as part of the game play.

[Gojio]

Easy does not equal Guaranteed, there is always a chance of failure no matter how high your level or CON is. Based on your level and CON, you have significantly increased your chances of success on the higher grade gems, however you cannot completely overcome the chance of having a failure.


There's nothing to "fix". Failure happens in crafting just as it happens in refining or any other system that relies on chance, it's something you're going to have to accept as part of the game play.

So what's the point of getting max con? I dont want a 100% success rate guaranteed, I just wish it would actually make a difference but the first attempt at crafting gems after increasing my con from 1166 to 1173 had the awful outcome you can read about in the first post.

If even after getting almost max con, grade 6 and 7 will always be "Fair", there's really no point. You should show us the real percentages, we have no idea of what our success rate is. We read "easy" and we fail quite some times, we read "fair" and we don't think it means u have a 50% chance of failing, but apparently its close to that.

Give us numbers, with numbers we can notice the difference between different chemicals, which is the core of gem crafting. If we can't even quantify the quality difference between Low Essence and Hermes, there's really no point.

Plus, as of now Enthiric and Hermes are like non existing. The best chemical we can collect in decent amount is Low Enthiric. That may explain why the failure rates have been higher lately, but then you said the drop system works as intended, which leads me to wonder why we still have 10 types of chemicals and 20 types of catalysts, since we see 4-5 types of chemicals only flooding the market (Elixir Loe Enthiric Low Essence Essence and Ether), while others are a lot rarer, and like 7 types of catalysts (HG, AL, Purple, Golden, Orange, Red, Pink) while the rest is either not used or not farmed at all because of the horrible drop rates (U and TI...never had a single TI and only like..6 U since they're ingame) which no one buys because compared to the price\quality ratio HG offers their price is sky high.

Edited by Gojio, 01 July 2011 - 02:32 PM.

[LadyPsyber]

Easy does not equal Guaranteed, there is always a chance of failure no matter how high your level or CON is. Based on your level and CON, you have significantly increased your chances of success on the higher grade gems, however you cannot completely overcome the chance of having a failure.


There's nothing to "fix". Failure happens in crafting just as it happens in refining or any other system that relies on chance, it's something you're going to have to accept as part of the game play.

First of all lets talk mats...since all the people who farm are quitting, the access to chem/hearts is drying up. What is gravity going to do to make up for this as I can assure you that the demand for gem's is MUCH higher than the supply of materials.

SECOND:

Nothing to fix? We're all losing AT LEAST 1 7th grade gem out of 8 every single time we craft. We've lost 3 out of 8 a couple times this last week...Out of THOUSANDS of 7th grade gem's we've made we have NEVER seen 3 7th grade gem fails out of 8 and it's happened twice in just the last week. Something has happened to the crafting system. We've lost a STUPID number of gems in the last week. It's failing over and over on the 7th/6th gem...

It needs to be fixed because all of us are seeing it. Check the logs on my bf's crafter and see how many bloody fails there has been....he's crafted like 100 7th grade gems and lost 15 of them with is RIDICULOUS even though he's using the same chem, the same gear(lost a bunch of 6th grade on gem too)!!! 15% failure on top of all the other chem fails/fails on lesser gems is not right. Something has changed.

On top of that I *LOVE* the disconnected tone of your post. It's like anything...gravity employees have no vested interest or care if someone get's slaughtered by a bug or problem...it's not like YOU have to experience it/deal with the consequences of using a broken game...

s'long as those item mall dollars keep trucking in, WHAT PROBLEM?

Edited by LadyPsyber, 01 July 2011 - 08:29 PM.

[bluehell]

First of all lets talk mats...since all the people who farm are quitting, the access to chem/hearts is drying up. What is gravity going to do to make up for this as I can assure you that the demand for gem's is MUCH higher than the supply of materials.

SECOND:

Nothing to fix? We're all losing AT LEAST 1 7th grade gem out of 8 every single time we craft. We've lost 3 out of 8 a couple times this last week...Out of THOUSANDS of 7th grade gem's we've made we have NEVER seen 3 7th grade gem fails out of 8 and it's happened twice in just the last week. Something has happened to the crafting system. We've lost a STUPID number of gems in the last week. It's failing over and over on the 7th/6th gem...

It needs to be fixed because all of us are seeing it. Check the logs on my bf's crafter and see how many bloody fails there has been....he's crafted like 100 7th grade gems and lost 15 of them with is RIDICULOUS even though he's using the same chem, the same gear(lost a bunch of 6th grade on gem too)!!! 15% failure on top of all the other chem fails/fails on lesser gems is not right. Something has changed.

On top of that I *LOVE* the disconnected tone of your post. It's like anything...gravity employees have no vested interest or care if someone get's slaughtered by a bug or problem...it's not like YOU have to experience it/deal with the consequences of using a broken game...

s'long as those item mall dollars keep trucking in, WHAT PROBLEM?

I think a 85% success rate is great. Personally I think you should be failing more than 15% of the time, because its way to profitable of a business. You are making double on every gem you get to 7. And it takes a lot less effort and time than farming. I just think the drop system absolutely needs to be updated. 60k for chems? wtf thats too high. I suppose most of you have seen the Jrose Union war video in the rose community chat section. Gravity, this is an example of a rose that is balanced. They have found a way to balance between item mall and the actual game. Thats 50/50 for those of you. Right now, all the updates are 90% item mall/ 10% actual game. Unless your game is balanced, you will never have complete success. You guys have gotten yourself into a super deep mess, and you have no idea how to fix it, its actually real simple... fire the development/item mall developers and hire asians, its working for Jrose.
I guess what im trying to say is, the rose development team needs to start actually improving the game. The past few weeks you have been adding new item mall crap that nobody cares about when you could have been adding the new stuff for the union war updates that you had in your plans. Rather than fixing some useless bugs that only a few people care about you could have been fixing this drop system for countless other things you guys have destroyed. If you guys would actually take 30minutes to play the game, you could see this. But you dont. You dont. You dont. You dont. You dont. You dont. You do absolutely nothing to fix things. I bet if you hired an 8 year old to come up with your ideas, he would do better. You guys are just completely ignoring common sense. You are becoming greedy, and that is absolutely destroying your game. Right now, this is just like a party. You start of happy, not bored in a party. The party starts to thrive, its in its golden age. Then 1 of your 3 aoes leave. (when plutos came^^) The game starts going down to lower ages, where its more about getting rich and greed, rather than having fun, and being nice to people. Eventually its completely about money. Right now we are in a spot, where another aoe left, now we just have 1 aoe, 2 clerics, and an infi killer in the sikiku underground prison. If the devs continue to focus only on item mall, the next thing to happen is our infi killer will leave. After that, rose is done. The xp starts to become not as great, one of the clerics decides to leave cus hes bored, and its not worth it with not enough xp. With 2 people left, the party is dead. And there is nobody to add, because nobody wants to join a party, cus they have no faith in it. Just like nobody will wont to join rose, because they know it is dieing.

[Genesis]

First of all lets talk mats...since all the people who farm are quitting, the access to chem/hearts is drying up. What is gravity going to do to make up for this as I can assure you that the demand for gem's is MUCH higher than the supply of materials.

SECOND:

Nothing to fix? We're all losing AT LEAST 1 7th grade gem out of 8 every single time we craft. We've lost 3 out of 8 a couple times this last week...Out of THOUSANDS of 7th grade gem's we've made we have NEVER seen 3 7th grade gem fails out of 8 and it's happened twice in just the last week. Something has happened to the crafting system. We've lost a STUPID number of gems in the last week. It's failing over and over on the 7th/6th gem...

It needs to be fixed because all of us are seeing it. Check the logs on my bf's crafter and see how many bloody fails there has been....he's crafted like 100 7th grade gems and lost 15 of them with is RIDICULOUS even though he's using the same chem, the same gear(lost a bunch of 6th grade on gem too)!!! 15% failure on top of all the other chem fails/fails on lesser gems is not right. Something has changed.

On top of that I *LOVE* the disconnected tone of your post. It's like anything...gravity employees have no vested interest or care if someone get's slaughtered by a bug or problem...it's not like YOU have to experience it/deal with the consequences of using a broken game...

s'long as those item mall dollars keep trucking in, WHAT PROBLEM?

You're being paranoid over nothing LadyPsyber, the crafting system has not changed for a very long time. You can say 85% success rate, 15% failure rate, 7/8 successes, 1/8 failures, 15/100 failures, 85/100 successes as many times as you like, that's still an excellent rate of success based on your level and CON and it's not going to get much better than that unless there is an increase in the level cap or new equipment with CON is introduced to the game. You seem to be forgetting that you are crafting the highest grade gems that the game has to offer right now, and that it's unreasonable to expect guaranteed successes on everything you make.

The crafting system is fine.

[Gojio]

What about the idea of giving us real numbers instead of "Easy" or "Fair"? It would help us a lot, really. :x

[Genesis]

What about the idea of giving us real numbers instead of "Easy" or "Fair"? It would help us a lot, really. :x

I wouldn't be opposed to having the success rate display in the same manner as the refining window, I'll bring it up with the rest of the team and see what they have to say about it.

[DestinyDeoxys]

I wouldn't be opposed to having the success rate display in the same manner as the refining window, I'll bring it up with the rest of the team and see what they have to say about it.

And make it compatible with Venurune and Plutorune too right? haha

Edited by DestinyDeoxys, 02 July 2011 - 03:19 PM.

[Gojio]

I wouldn't be opposed to having the success rate display in the same manner as the refining window, I'll bring it up with the rest of the team and see what they have to say about it.

That's good to hear, but hey, everytime I hear "I'll bring it up" or "I'll pass that along" most likely that's it and nothing happens.

We want facts.

[LadyPsyber]

You're being paranoid over nothing LadyPsyber, the crafting system has not changed for a very long time. You can say 85% success rate, 15% failure rate, 7/8 successes, 1/8 failures, 15/100 failures, 85/100 successes as many times as you like, that's still an excellent rate of success based on your level and CON and it's not going to get much better than that unless there is an increase in the level cap or new equipment with CON is introduced to the game. You seem to be forgetting that you are crafting the highest grade gems that the game has to offer right now, and that it's unreasonable to expect guaranteed successes on everything you make.

The crafting system is fine.

With the failure rate SUPPOSEDLY being even between crafters, it doesn't matter so much about the rate.(although a high rate, people would quit)

No, i'm bringing up a problem with something changes and all of a sudden things are failing more often. I'm talking about having a failure that's pretty much even'd out when you craft 20 gem's a day. All of a sudden that figure increases dramatically...not just in a couple crafts but over 40 or 60.

The point that people are trying to say is that there seems to be more factors affecting success than CON/chemical quality/level. It's been suggested that server lag might be an issue. All I know is that we crafted 200+ gems a week ago with a certain fail level. Then over 40-60 gems, the failure rate almost doubled. I'm sorry but those are pretty big sample sizes for the results to vary so much. I can also tell of you times where we've had 8 failures in a row...sorry but given how the system is skewed to (thankfully) have so much success, (even though I understand the percentage of success is the same every time), the chance of 8 fails in a row is pretty frigging remote. This totally points to there being some of thing that affects the success/fail rate during a set time frame.

It's this "unstable failure" rate that we're talking about...it totally feels like there are time when it is too dangerous to craft 6's or 7's. I have had a ridiculous amount of fails...losing 6's and 7's like crazy, stopped crafting, come back in a couple hours and then having zero fails over 20 full 7th gems.

That's good to hear, but hey, everytime I hear "I'll bring it up" or "I'll pass that along" most likely that's it and nothing happens.

We want facts.

I'll second that! In my office we file a request like that from a user under G(Garbage)

Edited by LadyPsyber, 03 July 2011 - 10:07 PM.

[Aviv4]

What about the idea of giving us real numbers instead of "Easy" or "Fair"? It would help us a lot, really. :x

+1
It would be great.

[Genesis]

To follow up on this, the crafting window has been updated to display a numeric success rate instead of the vague description. This should be available either in tomorrow or the following week's patch.

Additionally, we are also looking into the possibility of removing the MP cost from crafting since it serves as more of an annoyance than a feature of crafting.

[CaNehDa]

it will be fun to see that having like 100-200 more con (max con oppose to nearly max con) will only give you like 2% pr 5% more success...

Edited by CaNehDa, 27 September 2011 - 03:15 AM.

[pokkaking]

Here's my 2 cents opinion ,

I am fine with having a certain fail rate % as opposed to 100% success when it comes to crafting gems.
But if the fail rate is fixed in such a way that no matter how high the CON the artisan is the fail
rate would still be the same for another artisan with a lower CON. Then it would make striving
for the highest CON possible meaningless. This theory applies also for gem crafters that uses the
highest quality mats in making their gems. What's the point anymore since its still going to
be the same success rate as using the lousiest materials and lower CON.

The other issue I feel strongly about is also the supply of the mats namely chemicals and hearts.

For level 220s, the spots to farm and drop rates are fairly limited and if you guys have noticed cost of
gems and gem material have been skyrocketing over these past few months. Just last month, the cost of a D7
was hovering at around 160mil and now its over 200mil.

We need to have more sources where we can get materials or prices will keep on going up. Hopefully we do
not see a day when D7 costs a billion in the market.
Cheers

[pokkaking]

Tested out crafting again today with the new UI for crafting window.

My CON is at 1180.

Gem crafted is D7

Gem craft was a 100% success rate for grade 1-4. Chemicals used were low ess, ess and low ether.
Basically made no difference.

However when I reach grade 5 , the success rate seemed to be capped at 95%. Tried changing to exlixir, low enthric, hime and hermes.
success rate is capped at 95% for grade 5.

Went on to try grade 6, success rate this time was 87.1% using elixir. Switching to low enthric only gained me a 0.3% increase in chances
to 87.4% and switching to hermes only a 0.2% increase to 87.6%.

Manage to scrape through to grade 7 without fails, this time success rate is at 80.1%.

My conclusion is that the success rate at 80%++ is not too unreasonable(if u compare epic fails in the refining system)
There is also no difference in using elixir or hermes since the advantage gained is only 0.5% which I can live without.
Underlying issues on supply of chems and hearts still needs to be reviewed and improve upon to stabilize prices in the market.
(Perhaps keep the pirate coins available for longer periods as I am starting to see prices of white hearts dropping gradually)