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Revamping Scout's skill tree


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#1 Gojio

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 01:22 PM

Alright so, I came up with some ideas to make Scouts be a balanced class again, since as of now they are underpowered.

Common Tree (So this includes Raiders too):

Hawker Accordance - could use a boost, let's make that 50% when maxed.

Bow tree

Offensive Focus - 35% Attack Power, 25% Critical when maxed. No longer requires Requiem in order to learn it.

Stun Arrow no longer shares its cooldown with Impact Arrow.

Scout tree

Mana Flow turns into a HP passive called Arua's Grace, 2% at lvl 1, 10% when maxed.

Poison Arrow - It now has a duration of 10 seconds (instead of 15) and the damage per second raises to 300 hp per second (instead of 150). The success rate decreases to 75% (from 90%).

Entangling Arrow - When maxed, Movement Speed debuff decreases to 60% (from 80%). Duration increases to 8 seconds (from 5). It is now a Reliable Weapon Attack.

Point Blank Arrow - Increased range from 12m to 18m. Added a Defense Down debuff, 4% at lvl 1, 20% when maxed (4% increase per level).

Longinus' Incarnation does no longer require Offensive Focus in order to learn it.

Impact Arrow no longer shares cooldown with Stun Arrow.

NEW SKILL - Artemis' Force (passive) - Take inspiration from the brave Artemis to increase your attack speed. This skill increases your Attack Speed by 4% at lvl 1, by 20% when maxed at lvl 5 (4% increase per level).




Feel free to discuss, I think Scouts need a boost and to me this looks balanced.

Edited by Gojio, 18 July 2011 - 08:33 AM.

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#2 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:08 PM

Hawker Accordance to 50% attack speed (sure)

Offensive Focus from 25% AP 20% Crit to 35% AP 25% Crit and no longer require requiem (this just encourages raider to steal this skill)

Stun Arrow no longer shares its cooldown with Impact Arrow (fine)

Mana Flow from 20% additional Max MP to 10% Max HP (better than useless MP bars but still scout is not for tanking)

Poison Arrow just make sure the poison DOT doesn't exceed burn DOT and I think we should make the success rate to 100%, this skill is important for boss hunt, the DOT is everything about this skill since this skill is not even a reliable weapon attack.

Entangling Arrow best skill ever, it makes ppl who try to run away become hopeless, if you nerf the mspeed debuff then it's gonna affect boss hunt again, kiting is useless for PvP but we should at least make it useful for PvM.

Point Blank Arrow definitely needs a status effect with it as of right now it is nothing but a risky reliable weapon attack that makes your scout close to enemy which is not really what I scout should be doing.

Longinus' Incarnation should required requiem instead of offensive focus

Artemis' Force - this should just replace the skill soul current completely, you might as well add another similar skill for soul discipline as well, since right now scout attack speed is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: oh, you forgot Quick Reflexes need some mspeed passive with it as well :3

Edited by DestinyDeoxys, 06 July 2011 - 02:13 PM.

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#3 Gojio

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:17 PM

Hawker Accordance to 50% attack speed (sure)

Offensive Focus from 25% AP 20% Crit to 35% AP 25% Crit and no longer require requiem (this just encourages raider to steal this skill)

Stun Arrow no longer shares its cooldown with Impact Arrow (fine)

Mana Flow from 20% additional Max MP to 10% Max HP (better than useless MP bars but still scout is not for tanking)

Poison Arrow just make sure the poison DOT doesn't exceed burn DOT and I think we should make the success rate to 100%, this skill is important for boss hunt, the DOT is everything about this skill since this skill is not even a reliable weapon attack.

Entangling Arrow best skill ever, it makes ppl who try to run away become hopeless, if you nerf the mspeed debuff then it's gonna affect boss hunt again, kiting is useless for PvP but we should at least make it useful for PvM.

Point Blank Arrow definitely needs a status effect with it as of right now it is nothing but a risky reliable weapon attack that makes your scout close to enemy which is not really what I scout should be doing.

Longinus' Incarnation should required requiem instead of offensive focus

Artemis' Force - this should just replace the skill soul current completely, you might as well add another similar skill for soul discipline as well, since right now scout attack speed is absolutely ridiculous.


Offensive Focus - Just give it a Bow requirement.
HP passive - 10% is not a big advantage anyway, and it won't make them tank.
Entangling Arrow - 60% Mov.Speed debuff is a lot, 80% is just too much. Maybe increase the duration to 8 seconds from 5.
Point Blank Arrow - That's why I increased the range from 12 to 18 meters.
Longinus Incarnation - Shoudln't require anything other than Advanced Bow Mastery. Requiem as of now is a waste of points, because buffpot is better. Either remove any requirement other than Advanced Bow Mastery or raise Requiem to 30% at max level.

As for the attack speed passive, trying a 20% wouldn't hurt at first.

PS: My suggestion is pretty much based on PvP situations, honestly who farms with a Scout?...Everyone just uses Champs.

Edited by Gojio, 06 July 2011 - 02:18 PM.

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#4 Phish

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:18 PM

Poison arrow is already 300 damage per second, but damage over time should be revamped anyway.


Actually giving point blank arrow a defense down status isn't bad, but atleast let it be true to it's name, don't increase the range on it. (If anything decrease it to 6m) It would give scouts an opportunity for greater damage output but at the expense of range.

I agree about the offensive focus buff, if anything they should get a new buff in the scout tree rather than upgrade the first job skill.

Edited by Phish, 06 July 2011 - 02:19 PM.

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#5 Gojio

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:22 PM

Poison arrow is already 300 damage per second, but damage over time should be revamped anyway.


Actually giving point blank arrow a defense down status isn't bad, but atleast let it be true to it's name, don't increase the range on it. (If anything decrease it to 6m) It would give scouts an opportunity for greater damage output but at the expense of range.

I agree about the offensive focus buff, if anything they should get a new buff in the scout tree rather than upgrade the first job skill.


You sure Adam? I tested it with Sebas earlier and it looked like 150 HP per second...maybe I got confused because of the HP recovery skills so I'm not sure.

About Point Blank...well 6 meters would be too low...leaving it to 12 wouldn't hurt even though it's not that much different from 18.
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#6 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:53 PM

Aimed triple arrow needs a skill animation fix, since now every time you use it, server side duration is like 2 seconds but client side duration is like 3 seconds, so you always get stoned afterwards X_X.

Make it 3 shots instantaneously instead of pew pew pew !
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#7 DoubleRose

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 03:45 PM

Alright so, I came up with some ideas to make Scouts be a balanced class again, since as of now they are underpowered.

Common Tree (So this includes Raiders too):

Hawker Accordance - could use a boost, let's make that 50% when maxed.

Bow tree

Offensive Focus - 35% Attack Power, 25% Critical when maxed. No longer requires Requiem in order to learn it.

Stun Arrow no longer shares its cooldown with Impact Arrow.

Scout tree

Mana Flow turns into a HP passive called Arua's Grace, 2% at lvl 1, 10% when maxed.

Poison Arrow - It now has a duration of 10 seconds (instead of 15) and the damage per second raises to 300 hp per second (instead of 150). The success rate decreases to 75% (from 90%).

Entangling Arrow - When maxed, Movement Speed debuff decreases to 60% (from 80%). It is now a Reliable Weapon Attack.

Point Blank Arrow - Increased range from 12m to 18m. Added a Defense Down debuff, 4% at lvl 1, 20% when maxed (4% increase per level).

Longinus' Incarnation does no longer require Offensive Focus in order to learn it.

Impact Arrow no longer shares cooldown with Stun Arrow.

NEW SKILL - Artemis' Force (passive) - Take inspiration from the brave Artemis to increase your attack speed. This skill increases your Attack Speed by 4% at lvl 1, by 20% when maxed at lvl 5 (4% increase per level).



Hawker tree/bow tree looks great.
Point Blank Arrow DEFINITELY should do defense down, but it's range should be decreased, not increased as it's POINT BLANK.
Everything else looks good, thank you for not having an arrow storm/rain skill. "As of now" is incorrect, scouts have always been marginal/below average.
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#8 Takahirou

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:45 PM

Do it up.
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#9 HellGuardian

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 07:40 PM

All sound good but scout seem like it's the only class with the best balance compare to all the class. Decent output power, above fair mspd, skill spamable and they are the only class that has the highest survive rate.

Nevertheless, they could be improve.
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#10 tythemuss

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:50 PM

Me likey would make my scout awesome >:waddle:
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#11 hazeeee

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 09:44 PM

change Reliable magic attack ---> Reliable Weapon atk :)
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#12 Gojio

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 03:14 AM

change Reliable magic attack ---> Reliable Weapon atk :)


What?
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#13 hazeeee

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 06:23 AM

What?


i mean. change Reliable Magic atk skills(pheonix arrow) to a Reliable weapon atk
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#14 Gojio

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 06:49 AM

i mean. change Reliable Magic atk skills(pheonix arrow) to a Reliable weapon atk


Why? It isn't a weapon attack, you summon a Phoenix that will hit the opponent, that sounds magic ;o

Plus, it does good damage againts Soldiers.
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#15 hazeeee

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:58 AM

Why? It isn't a weapon attack, you summon a Phoenix that will hit the opponent, that sounds magic ;o

Plus, it does good damage againts Soldiers.


should scout should be magical.. :rofl:

ok ok.. i change my mind.. if those pheonix arrow will gain some (1) nega effect on the enemy like(def down,Acc down, etc)
most probobly "BURN" :)

Edited by hazeeee, 09 July 2011 - 08:11 AM.

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#16 Gojio

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:47 AM

should scout should be magical.. :rofl:

ok ok.. i change my mind.. if those pheonix arrow will gain some (1) nega effect on the enemy like(def down,Acc down, etc)
most probobly "BURN" :)


I actually wanted to suggest that too...but let's not ask for too much now...Nothing of what I suggested is gonna be done anyway so...

Let's suck it up.
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#17 Kittiz

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 12:58 PM

Oh. Wow. Please please please please please can this be implemented?! *-*
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#18 Sathanas

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 01:36 PM

Phoenix should DEFINITELY be a burn, possibly similar to the raiders plasma falcon...

I dont think point blank arrow should be a long range skill, i never use it unless my target is actually close enough for the skill to work without me having to run towards him, but the def down could definitely go there (also possibly with more atk power), or be put on phoenix arrow along with a burn.

Why nerf entangling arrows mspeed down? if anything id like to see a bit longer duration on it...

Also stun and impact arrow could possibly be changed to m attacks, if i remember correctly thier descriptions say something about "an arrow infused with spiritual energy" or some-such. Sounds like a Magic attack to me...

Edited by Sathanas, 16 July 2011 - 01:38 PM.

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#19 alibaba5

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 01:37 PM

maybe one of the gm can reply here ?
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#20 Sathanas

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 01:39 PM

It will just be the usual bs.. "We have read this thread and sent it to the dev team, thanks for your ideas"....."Hey, how bout some new item mall passives for your underpowered scouts!!!???" -.-
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#21 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 03:03 PM

It will just be the usual bs.. "We have read this thread and sent it to the dev team, thanks for your ideas"....."Hey, how bout some new item mall passives for your underpowered scouts!!!???" -.-


lol sad but true :thumb:
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#22 Phish

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 03:07 PM

I do agree Scouts should have another stun (everyone else has more than one) but one of them should be a 1 second duration, especially considering they are both long range.
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#23 tENLAVUU

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 09:44 PM

From my own experience I think scouts do pretty good damage how they are now if played correctly, they hit very hard with the debuffs.

I think the problem lies within their DPS. Scouts have a ton of high damage skills that can be easily spammed but the animation it takes to cast these skills make the DPS pretty unnoticeable.

Rather than make hawker accordance 50%(as this would give an unnecessary advantage to raiders), I think there should be an aspeed passive within the scout tree giving around 30-40% aspeed gain. The scout skill tree build is fairly easy with spare skill points left over.
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#24 yeoldknight

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 09:51 PM

Alright so, I came up with some ideas to make Scouts be a balanced class again, since as of now they are underpowered.

Common Tree (So this includes Raiders too):

Hawker Accordance - could use a boost, let's make that 50% when maxed.

Bow tree

Offensive Focus - 35% Attack Power, 25% Critical when maxed. No longer requires Requiem in order to learn it.

Stun Arrow no longer shares its cooldown with Impact Arrow.

Scout tree

Mana Flow turns into a HP passive called Arua's Grace, 2% at lvl 1, 10% when maxed.

Poison Arrow - It now has a duration of 10 seconds (instead of 15) and the damage per second raises to 300 hp per second (instead of 150). The success rate decreases to 75% (from 90%).

Entangling Arrow - When maxed, Movement Speed debuff decreases to 60% (from 80%). It is now a Reliable Weapon Attack.

Point Blank Arrow - Increased range from 12m to 18m. Added a Defense Down debuff, 4% at lvl 1, 20% when maxed (4% increase per level).

Longinus' Incarnation does no longer require Offensive Focus in order to learn it.

Impact Arrow no longer shares cooldown with Stun Arrow.

NEW SKILL - Artemis' Force (passive) - Take inspiration from the brave Artemis to increase your attack speed. This skill increases your Attack Speed by 4% at lvl 1, by 20% when maxed at lvl 5 (4% increase per level).




Feel free to discuss, I think Scouts need a boost and to me this looks balanced.

Plus uno!
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#25 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 08:46 AM

From my own experience I think scouts do pretty good damage how they are now if played correctly, they hit very hard with the debuffs.

I think the problem lies within their DPS. Scouts have a ton of high damage skills that can be easily spammed but the animation it takes to cast these skills make the DPS pretty unnoticeable.

Rather than make hawker accordance 50%(as this would give an unnecessary advantage to raiders), I think there should be an aspeed passive within the scout tree giving around 30-40% aspeed gain. The scout skill tree build is fairly easy with spare skill points left over.



Battle Charm at around 500INT already gives 50% attack speed buff, so I don't think it will give raiders any advantage with respect to cleric buffs, it will only help hawker solo PvM/PvP. Many people think scouts are pretty bad, but as you've said it will be good if played correctly, what I see it's wrong here is the attack speed of scout being too low which makes their DPS quite low also, offensive focus has a 20% critical buff and it cannot be utilized due to regular hits lacking DPS.

Since hawkers generally do not have AOE, I don't see why they cannot have their Hawker Accordance increase to 50%. Also some sort of additional attack speed passive is needed for scout skill tree. That's the most important issue I see currently, all the attack skills are fine, there is a reason why scout gets a poison arrow and a raider gets a phoenix slash (burn). Scout is not designed for full offensive, but rather a support class, only big problem here is champ still being overpowered.

For those who don't know, when a bow weapon says Attack Speed: Fast +1 and a spear weapon says Attack Speed: Fast +1, they are not the same attack speed if both rated at 0% attack speed, close ranged weapon and long ranged weapon are scaled differently, long ranged weapon is slightly slower than close ranged weapon which explains why bow weapon shoots ridiculously slow, same for Xbow scout/knight. On the other hand, gunbourg/arti are really powerful in terms of regular pew pewing, since they have some good attack speed passive. :thumb:
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