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7/12 Update Plans


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#101 Quazera

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:26 PM

If they every allow clearance to be used offensively, it only really needs a chance of failure. Just give it a rate similar to Masquerade and it couldn't be that bad. If it ignores Preserve on friendlies, all the better.


It already has a chance of failure~ success rate is 80% at level 5 and 40% at level 1~ and as Viri said, it has a cool down time of 10 seconds
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#102 asayuu

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:30 PM

We could defend if we could debuff enemies. Uigh, I'm going in circles ^^;


Spin, Hina, spin!

The point is. [Get ready for a Wanderer-related post]

Support is not only heal, buffs and recovery. It's possible to make defenses on WOE without Archbishops, because their support is limited to that.

When you get a support class different from the Archbishops, let us see... Examples: Sorcerer, Wanderer/Maestro, Shadow Chaser.

They don't heal. They don't buff [so often as one Archbishop]. They fail at recovery. But they have skills that make harder for the opponents to destroy your defenses [Deep Sleep, Masquerades, Divest, Shadow Form, Spell Breaker, Dispell, Classical Pluck]

Or [with the same skills] they can make easier to disable your opponents and then be able to destroy their defenses.

So. This is the problem. Archbishops lack some disable-type support skills. Lex Divina / Silentium would be a good one if it really worked... Almost everyone is immune to silence... And green potions are there for who is not. As much as Dazzler became a crappy Dancer skill, that stuns... Nothing.

Giving one step on Clearance would be the first step.

If not being able to throw on opponents, at least throw on guildmembers and/or alliance members.

Then, if implementing new skills on the bishop tree is too hard, fix the skills they have, to make their support needed, and not wanted. Let me repeat again: It's possible to make defenses without Archbishops.

Oh wait. I wanted to post here because of something else.

[Turnin events]

Please. But please. I don't want to see those quests in maps infested by bots. Take the bots out or take the map out >.<
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#103 Makk

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:39 PM

It already has a chance of failure~ success rate is 80% at level 5 and 40% at level 1~ and as Viri said, it has a cool down time of 10 seconds

Sorry, guess I got a little confused there by the wiki. I was meaning to say that it should be 100% for allies but a nerfed success rate when applied offensively. I do agree that ABs need a bit more love though.

Edited by Makk, 11 July 2011 - 12:40 PM.

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#104 Myzery

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:44 PM

It just needs so work on any ally if anything, not offensively.
You guys are just grasping for reasons to make it usable on enemies now. I saw Quazera complaining in the other thread about getting lvl 5 of something because it's useless. Shadow Chasers are forced to get skills that don't even work. On top of that, Stalkers were useless against anyone with coats, which was anyone with common sense.

Apples vs. Oranges
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#105 meli

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 03:38 PM

I don't understand ^^,. You say clearance would be too strong, so a cathalyst would be needed. Then say adding a cathalyst would be bad because clearance would be too bad for bishops.

I'm 99% sure that any bishop would be okay with clearance costing many gems, holy waters, and other regeants if only we could use it on anyone. Clearance needs to be usable on any target.

You would be surprised by the amount of times you DO want to use clearance on anyone. People sitting next to you and you wait for the other support classes (aka sura or Gx) to come by to recover them. And, there are times where debuffing would be really cool.


I'd rather keep it as it is, but usable on all allies. I would never waste my time in woe clearancing someone (foe) as I usually have more important stuff to do, I guess I'm just too active supporting and not only press 3 aoe buff buttons.

I just do not agree with it being like dispell, simple as that, catalyst used or not (if they added a catalyst it would suck to use it for the sake of recovery, that's what I was meaning to say). It's a very annoying skill and I'm perfectly fine with ONE class having it for offense.
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#106 Makk

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 03:47 PM

It just needs so work on any ally if anything, not offensively.
You guys are just grasping for reasons to make it usable on enemies now. I saw Quazera complaining in the other thread about getting lvl 5 of something because it's useless. Shadow Chasers are forced to get skills that don't even work. On top of that, Stalkers were useless against anyone with coats, which was anyone with common sense.

Apples vs. Oranges


Now that I agree with getting fixed, I can't believe that making 6 points worth of skills actually do something is not part of the re-balancing. Literally anything would be better.

Edited by Makk, 11 July 2011 - 03:51 PM.

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#107 valgissn

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 04:46 PM

Regarding the turn-ins, it's ridiculous that this week the people above 130 benefit from nothing. Even next week the people below 130 will have ANOTHER week of turn-ins to help them level.

Unfair much?

Edited by valgissn, 11 July 2011 - 04:48 PM.

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#108 Scott

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 06:40 PM

Now that I agree with getting fixed, I can't believe that making 6 points worth of skills actually do something is not part of the re-balancing. Literally anything would be better.


Make Scribble have no Pre-Reqs, make Counter-Instinct be the Pre-Req for the SC stuff, spend 2 points somewhere else, victory.
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#109 Taper

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 08:35 PM

#2576#Adventurer's Backpack [1]
Enables use of Greed Level 1


Dammit... don't take away the only redeeming feature of having a blacksmith class post-renewal, given how restricted Mado suit is.
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#110 Quazera

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:02 PM

It just needs so work on any ally if anything, not offensively.
You guys are just grasping for reasons to make it usable on enemies now. I saw Quazera complaining in the other thread about getting lvl 5 of something because it's useless. Shadow Chasers are forced to get skills that don't even work. On top of that, Stalkers were useless against anyone with coats, which was anyone with common sense.

Apples vs. Oranges


At least shadow chasers can level to get their skill points making it not as hard a hit. A few days of grinding solo can get you past that easily. AB's have no viable way of leveling other than tagging along/leeching/waiting for event (if you can participate this time around) and for a class that's only as useful as their skills, it's kinda really a problem. What else do we have going for us? Our survivability? Our dynamic character play?

As well, AB'skill tree is horribly done. You need to invest in battle skills that have been entwined into a supportive skill branch. Duple light level 5 and Expatio for Secrement...I'm totally gonna duple with my 160 aspd to wack things to death and get my next job level. Yeah...right...I'd rather put those points into high heal so I can actually make some sort of visible dent in an RK's health bar. Obviously, it's not as bad for Chaser's since they seem to be doing fantastic at their role of being a formidable annoyance in WoE (I use this word not to diss the class, but SC's are really great trolls IG) while AB's seem to disappear into the back row's alt tabbing with no real meaningful role in the game.

I don't think anyone really gets how difficult it is to get these skill points on a purely supportive character who CANNOT level by themselves in a game that's full of one shot wonders and still no reason to party.

PS: Having no use and skill not working both lead to the same thing => skill not used:S

Edited by Quazera, 12 July 2011 - 01:01 PM.

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#111 Alumni

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:10 AM

Will you still have the option to put all experience in to job? Like that of the current alarm turn in?
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#112 Kadnya

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:24 AM

I saw Quazera complaining in the other thread about getting lvl 5 of something because it's useless. Shadow Chasers are forced to get skills that don't even work.


Shadow chasers have skills that are useful. Archbishops have a loooooooooong line of useless skills and aco remade skills as prerequisites. It's like if devs said, "okay chaser, I'm giving you back those 5 useless skill points but now you have the prerequisites of hidding level 20, area steal, super envenom! and more".

I would gladly waste 6 skill points if the rest of the archbishop tree was made of useful new buff and debuffs. (not saying that it's okay that rogues have unimplemented skills, but at least you have a future).

On top of that, Stalkers were useless against anyone with coats, which was anyone with common sense.


And high priests could use a useful assumptio, but both things are lies right now, so comparing stalkers with shadow chasers is indeed Apples vs. Oranges. Shadow chasers would have many options left even if they happen to be clearanced, can't preserve again on time, and happen to be hit by the two or three pre-trans attacks which people use in woe. It's not really bad, but for bishops it's a huge buff. Adding one useful skill would double the number of useful skills from our third class. It's like, if they added 5 or 6 new cool skills for other third classes or so, go figure =p.

Edited by Kadnya, 12 July 2011 - 05:27 AM.

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#113 chasko

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:02 AM

Dammit... don't take away the only redeeming feature of having a blacksmith class post-renewal, given how restricted Mado suit is.


You can buy Greed scrolls from the Kafra shop. And some equips allow a chance to proc Greed. There would be less incidents of people getting looted, since this would be basically the official @autoloot function for everyone.
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#114 BlackPotato

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:30 AM

Make Scribble have no Pre-Reqs, make Counter-Instinct be the Pre-Req for the SC stuff, spend 2 points somewhere else, victory.


No.
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#115 asayuu

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:51 AM

COUNTER INSTINCT? ARE YOU CRAZY? hehe~

Counter instinct is a Trans skill~

Poor baby chasers won't learn the paint skills this way~ ):

Anyways, both paint skills from the rogue tree would be useless even if implemented. What is the utility of painting something in a guild flag? Nobody sees it. Unless you use it during WOE, to fool some opponents saying the castle is yours when it is not.

And if you want to say about useless skills, let's see the [crappy] Sacrament tree. Most exactly on the Prefatio branch.

They need Angelus 2 to learn Kyrie. Then Kyrie 1 to learn Praefatio. That instead of being AOE Kyrie Eleison, creates a new barrier, and has levels of its own. So having Praefatio 5 is the same thing as having Kyrie Eleison 10. The previous skill was totally replaced. Then you need it to learn Oratio. Who really makes Oratio pass the level 5 for requirements? And so on~

Both chaser and bishop trees were badly planned. Bishops will get some other good skills with a gear fix. Chasers can choose any skill they want to use to level. They actually can solo, because they copy skills of classes able to solo and use them.

[Random note]

When the job skill chart will be revisited? I am someway sick of needing 16m to level base and 22m to level job D:
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#116 Hrothmund

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:30 AM

can we get a turn in that ISN"T ONCE A DAY? magma dun was great or whateva that doesn't suck (rachel sanc)


I dont have a problem with the "once a day" thing, what i do have a problem with is that after i finished the quest, i'd fully outleveled the point where the reward would be useful by the time I was able to redeem it...

You should be able to get your EXP reward THEN start the 23 hour cooldown, not the other way around.
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#117 chasko

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 11:41 AM

You should be able to get your EXP reward THEN start the 23 hour cooldown, not the other way around.


All turnin quests will change so that you can turn in the quest immediately after finishing, but you still can only accept the quest 1 time per day.


About the timer, I hope the way the timer works stays the same, i.e. timer starts when you pick up the turn in quest. This way you can do the quest anytime during the day with no time pressure instead of trying to do it as fast as possible. It's always good to start the timer earlier than later.
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#118 Taper

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:50 PM

You can buy Greed scrolls from the Kafra shop. And some equips allow a chance to proc Greed. There would be less incidents of people getting looted, since this would be basically the official @autoloot function for everyone.


The difference is that blacksmith can do it 24/7, which has been VERY useful as I could level much faster without wasting time to pick up everything afterwards. You can't do with the greed scrolls, unless you have unlimited amounts of kafra points. As for the equips that procs greed, it's not 24/7, and the proc rate is fairly low.

So like I said, zeny/cash-free 24/7 greed is a major perk of being a blacksmith class. A lot of players made greed BS just for greeding of OD2 pre-renewal. One might argue that the skill was THE signature skill for the BS class (much like how HSCR was for MS). But now with the backpack... might as well drop the BS class entirely from the game.
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#119 Clogon

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:56 PM

But now with the backpack and the fact that Mado Mechs can't use greed... might as well drop the BS class entirely from the game.


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#120 Heimdallr

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:00 PM

I'm going to unpin this thread and post the actual patch notes in a different thread.

I do want to address broadly the skill update patch that is being worked on.

With renewal there was many ideas from various partners on how to refix it to work for their communities. Such big changes done by partners was not something that was done before in Ragnarok, and in the end the "experiment" proved unwise as it makes future support harder and if 1 version has a lot of differences it is better to analyze the why and incorporate it into the big picture of RO. 95% of the difference was between kRO and jRO differences, and those differences are going to be merged in the near future. The april update done on kRO sakray was a first step towards that merging, and that update is still being redeveloped for release to all the partners (including iRO). We were scheduling to get ALL updates made from last September through that April update here at the end of July, it looks like that is not possible because the April portion is NOT ready to be patched even to kRO yet.

We are working on getting all the September -> March patches applied soon, time is fuzzy yet, but sooner than waiting for the WHOLE patch. Then later as soon as possible get the April 2011 and beyond patch loaded and implemented.
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