47 replies to this topic

[cybernetic]

Instead of voting down and running, how about voting down and explaining why you think this is a bad idea (after reading the whole thead)?

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your asking a child to stop being a child. hes really workin the hardest to get some1 looking at that. basically every thread:

"wow, green ales arent that expensive on valk. know what should happen tho? decrease the cooldown of nb and increase its aoe blah blah...."

I honestly think you should look in a mirror regarding being a child, this is definately a discussion that needs to be brought to attention. You're just blatantly disgregarding any information which has a valid argument with a sweeping statement of your own delusional biased thoughts. You repeatedly state information that is incorrect which is giving the onlookers to this thread the wrong idea.

The facts:

Neutral barrier protects against ALL ranged damage (physical and magical). It does NOT protect against melee distanced damage (for example regarding mvps, if you are standing 1~3 cells distance from an mvp when it casts earthquake you WILL be damaged even if you are standing in neutral barrier, as it is considered a melee attack, stand one cell further away and you will not.)

Currently if you want to counter dragon breath (with pneuma, which mind you is terrible if you actually want to push at a choke trying to position them all correctly), you can't counter ground targeted disable spells.
If you do counter dragon breath (with pneuma) you will be destroyed by the ground targeted disable spells.
There is no feasible counter to jack frost/frost misty currently (except a 3x3 aoe neutral barrier, which obviously is useless).
Now, obviously jRO knew something was wrong otherwise they wouldn't have changed ME to allow it to block dragon breath. And kRO obviously sees the use for neutral barrier because they ARE buffing it come the april 13 skill changes. But because of an oversight with crazy vines it is not being buffed enough. Crazy vines is far too spammable to make neutral barrier have any effective use. I can live with the 5x5 aoe (but it should be increased), sure. But after one crazy vines (that can be casted every five seconds) you can't use neutral barrier for another 2 minutes, making it useless.

If you think everything is fine, you're quite delusional. Buffing neutral barrier would give functional (trying to push a guild of 52 with pnuema is not functional) counters to skills which before didn't, allow whole guilds to function as a group rather then individually and with the previous point allow more intuitive team play, relying again on scholars, and now including mechanics as the base foundation of gvg.

Current neutral barrier:
3x3 aoe
2 minute cooldown
Lasts for 1 minute
2.5 second cast time (all variable)

April 13 neutral barrier:
5x5 aoe
1 minute cooldown
Lasts for 1 minute
2.5 second cast time (all variable)

Proposed changes to neutral barrier:
7x7 aoe
0~10 second cooldown
Lasts for 1 minute
2 second cast time (all fixed, no variable)

Edited by cybernetic, 11 July 2011 - 09:22 PM.

[BlackPotato]

no.

[cybernetic]

no.

y u no?

It would be the new ME battles. Except it would be ME + NB battles.

[Inubashiri]

You sure are determined

[Viri]

This would make it absolutely retarded in pvm. Especially if they're thinking about making mvps harder so you need a party. It blocks earthquake, all magic, etc etc etc.

[cybernetic]

This would make it absolutely retarded in pvm. Especially if they're thinking about making mvps harder so you need a party. It blocks earthquake, all magic, etc etc etc.

Disable it outside of woe and pvp.

[Viri]

Grouping up too tight is always bad in renewal now. You gotta stick together but if you stand in 7x7 you're just gonna get curse circled or thorn walled or something

[cybernetic]

Grouping up too tight is always bad in renewal now. You gotta stick together but if you stand in 7x7 you're just gonna get curse circled or thorn walled or something

cant thorn wall, manhole, [ground based skill] on me, etc etc. using neutral barrier by itself is dumb, using it with me is smart.

cc is troublesome. indirectly can be countered by stormblast, but even then.

[Brindizer]

I'd want to say that this is too good, too powerful, but then I look at other classes and realize what bull-_- they can pull out of their hats, and I say:

Do it to it, Lars.

[Myzery]

Maybe people will have sympathy for you until they realize that you're the one who complained and whined to Heim and got the KvM fist changed to being instant cast.
This will be very overpowered as well. Some people already complain about pneuma and this would be an even better version that also blocks physical attacks.

[BlackPotato]

AoE safety wall, pneuma, and on top of ME? yea that wouldnt be abused at all (note: not sure if it works ON me, since my ms is 99/70, once seeing how horrible the class is compared to the rest of renewal classes)

[asayuu]

I think you are asking too much changes at once. Proceed slowly... Let they check if the expanded area OR the lower cooldown would be better for implement first.

I also. I want Metallic Sound with 100% SP damage, no more HP damage (because it is pointless) and also with only 1 second cooldown, instead of the actual 5. I want ALL the chorus skills remade. But I don't keep screaming about it all the time. Screaming does not work. Everyone has 100 vit already. [No dancer-related joke intended joke~~~~ jk, yes, there is a dancer-related joke here.]

[cybernetic]

AoE safety wall, pneuma, and on top of ME? yea that wouldnt be abused at all (note: not sure if it works ON me, since my ms is 99/70, once seeing how horrible the class is compared to the rest of renewal classes)

it doesn't protect against melee attacks, you're quite mistaken. it only blocks ranged skills (magic and psychical)

the main use of neutral barrier would be to block dragon breath and to block magic that can't be blocked by magnetic earth. (and goh I suppose). it would also promote guilds sticking together, and proper looking organisation.

neutral barrier CAN be ganban'd, it can be crazy vine ganban'd and it can also be cancled by that rg skill. it would only be overpowered if it had no counters whatsoever, which it does so this is a null point.

neutral barrier can be used over magnetic earth. think of it right now as just a -_-ty 3x3 2 minute cool down useless bard song at the moment.

why can't you see the beauty of this?

Edited by cybernetic, 08 July 2011 - 03:56 PM.

[Pril]

A slightly larger AoE is fine. The no cooldown is what's bad about the suggestion. The skill grants mobile immunity to a lot of damage sources. As such, it should be considered as a well-timed trump card skill, not something that is always up.

[cybernetic]

A slightly larger AoE is fine. The no cooldown is what's bad about the suggestion. The skill grants mobile immunity to a lot of damage sources. As such, it should be considered as a well-timed trump card skill, not something that is always up.

that would be true, if it wasn't so easily canceled... that's the problem. a short cooldown would be fine, but for what its worth a 2 minute cooldown is worthless.

[asayuu]

omg wait. Now I know exactly what Neutral Barrier does. And I think it's unfair /omg

If Neutral Barrier gets a buff, this will also need one. It has a 7x7 area, but only blocks magic and dispel all positive buffs from the target. Also it only works to party members, in WOE [Inside a castle, of course], and close to a portal. It has no cooldown, but the duration is way lower than Neutral Barrier, the gypsy is not protected by the attacks AND it blocks skill usage from all the targeted allies.

Neutral Barrier has a [3x3? 5x5?] area, and 2 minutes cooldown but:
- can be used anywhere;
- the mechanic is also protected;
- it works on anyone;
- and does not dispel positive buffs;
- Targets inside the AOE can use skills [Even damaging skills missing, they can use them]

But I don't mind the area of Neutral Barrier going to 7x7.

Edited by asayuu, 08 July 2011 - 06:17 PM.

[BlackPotato]

it doesn't protect against melee attacks, you're quite mistaken. it only blocks ranged skills (magic and psychical)

the main use of neutral barrier would be to block dragon breath and to block magic that can't be blocked by magnetic earth. (and goh I suppose). it would also promote guilds sticking together, and proper looking organisation.

neutral barrier CAN be ganban'd, it can be crazy vine ganban'd and it can also be cancled by that rg skill. it would only be overpowered if it had no counters whatsoever, which it does so this is a null point.

neutral barrier can be used over magnetic earth. think of it right now as just a -_-ty 3x3 2 minute cool down useless bard song at the moment.

why can't you see the beauty of this?

right. so AoE safety wall/pneuma that you want no cool down on. this sounds like a good idea? you have neglected to persuade me that it should be changed. might want to clean up your argument. next your gonna want to be able to SD and go get another mech right outside the castl-- owait.

[cybernetic]

right. so AoE safety wall/pneuma that you want no cool down on. this sounds like a good idea? you have neglected to persuade me that it should be changed. might want to clean up your argument. next your gonna want to be able to SD and go get another mech right outside the castl-- owait.

It doesn't block anything melee ranged... how can I get this across to you?

[jax5]

right. so AoE safety wall/pneuma that you want no cool down on. this sounds like a good idea? you have neglected to persuade me that it should be changed. might want to clean up your argument. next your gonna want to be able to SD and go get another mech right outside the castl-- owait.

How is it AoE safety wall?

Anyway, one easy counter to neutral barrier is crazy vines:
- completely variable cast
- skill effect is multiple ganbanteins (and damage) being cast within in an area over the course of a couple seconds
- can be ground targetted from range
- re-use delay of 5 seconds
- requires a potentially expensive catalyst to cast

If one counter (and there are more) is so easy and with such short re-use delay, doesn't it make the current neutral barrier somewhat worthless (3x3 area, buggy with slide skills, very long re-use delay)?

[Andini]

current neutral barrier is crap

[BlackPotato]

it doesn't protect against melee attacks, you're quite mistaken. it only blocks ranged skills (magic and psychical)

the main use of neutral barrier would be to block dragon breath and to block magic that can't be blocked by magnetic earth. (and goh I suppose). it would also promote guilds sticking together, and proper looking organisation.

It doesn't block anything melee ranged... how can I get this across to you?

so which is it. you seem to not really know what your own class skills are doing. or do you mean it blocks cart cannon, but not a dps ranger (if that exists anymore). dying to hear your rationale

Edited by BlackPotato, 09 July 2011 - 01:19 AM.

[Pril]

What don't you get? It doesn't block close ranged physical attacks, it blocks long ranged physical attacks as stated.

[cybernetic]

so which is it. you seem to not really know what your own class skills are doing. or do you mean it blocks cart cannon, but not a dps ranger (if that exists anymore). dying to hear your rationale

you're just making yourself look bad

[DeltaRay]

To be honest I support the 7*7 increase range not the cooldown though

[BlackPotato]

you're just making yourself look bad

not really, was just pointing out your ignorance, saying one thing than saying another. like i said, doesnt have a mechanic, since its a useless class. get it through your head, your neutral barrier isnt gonna change anytime soon. theres no reason to improve on it when there are several other skills that dont work, have bugs, or need the nerf blaster