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#76 Viri

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 07:37 PM

With 2 belts and a +12 kvm mace and high str I can just about break 20k on someone wearing a cranial in WoE. Not quite though, with a small ish AOE and a 10 second cooldown. Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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#77 Fibrizzo

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:12 AM

With 2 belts and a +12 kvm mace and high str I can just about break 20k on someone wearing a cranial in WoE. Not quite though, with a small ish AOE and a 10 second cooldown. Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


And you are still dealing more damage in less time than warlocks.
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#78 Viri

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:23 AM

Were warlocks ever a DPS class? Seriously. You can pretend people that mattered died to stormgust all you like. They were just there for crowd control on bads, they can still do that plus they have some powerful targeted removal now too. Only big problem is safety wall blows but that's getting patched at some point. Honestly if I were to switch to warlock I'd run around with ck/beret/cranial and use earth strain/stasis/marsh/white imprison and accomplish way more than the stupid ones trying to TV people and dying in 1 hit.
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#79 Fibrizzo

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:33 AM

Were warlocks ever a DPS class? Seriously. You can pretend people that mattered died to stormgust all you like. They were just there for crowd control on bads, they can still do that plus they have some powerful targeted removal now too. Only big problem is safety wall blows but that's getting patched at some point. Honestly if I were to switch to warlock I'd run around with ck/beret/cranial and use earth strain/stasis/marsh/white imprison and accomplish way more than the stupid ones trying to TV people and dying in 1 hit.


Yes, Warlocks are supposed to be dps class. Not GREAT damage, but damage fast and covering big areas.

That's why they have the lower HP mod, because they are supposed to be best damage dealers. But everybody know that this is not true xD
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#80 Viri

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:45 AM

Yup its not for the huge AOE status effects it's for the mediocre damage. You can read the minds of the devs and know they just implemented everything wrong and will just wait till they fix it even though the class is incredibly useful when played a way that is already available but very people people choose to do for some reason. I personally blame certain warlocks for being complete trash and brainwashing people into thinking it's a dps class when they can be incredibly effective otherwise. No names though, just kidding. Haseo is a baddie.
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#81 carnisero

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:58 AM

Yup its not for the huge AOE status effects it's for the mediocre damage. You can read the minds of the devs and know they just implemented everything wrong and will just wait till they fix it even though the class is incredibly useful when played a way that is already available but very people people choose to do for some reason. I personally blame certain warlocks for being complete trash and brainwashing people into thinking it's a dps class when they can be incredibly effective otherwise. No names though, just kidding. Haseo is a baddie.



you are the one that is brainwashed into thinking it's not a DPS class. The balance of the game as intended since the beginning was that mages and archer DPS, Swordsman Tank, thief kill and disable, and merchant make/waste dough/killer.

As the classes branches out into 2nd.

Wizards - Lowest HP - Best DPS
Knight - Highest HP - Tanks or Melee Sponges.
Crusader - Best tank skill - Best Tanker, best holy warrior, ok fighter
Priest - Best Healer
Monks - Damage Dealer
Sins - highest flee - Damage dealer
Rogues - Disable People, Money maker, Thief
Blacksmith - Damage Dealer, Money waster/Maker
Rangers - Lowest HP of range - Best DPS at a range
Bards/dancer - Better Hp - Party supporter (Not Killers)
Alchemist - Potters, healers, Moneymaker, ok killers
Sages - Buffers, Disable people, Disable Mobs


3rd class and transendants should had expanded on that but what we got was a -_-load of mess up things. Like Minstrel doing more DPS than ranger, Scholar doing more DMG, Champion Better tank than knights, better killer than most.

well you get the picture. All of a sudden the 2-2 class that were more technical and the 2-1 class that were more Mindless DPS got outshine by the 2-2 class. They have better skills to disable mobs/people and Have as good if not better Attacking skills. While the 2-1 class is stuck with all these offensive skills that can't do better than 2-2 classes.
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#82 carnisero

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:03 AM

and let me add that the only class i believe is balance in terms of as they were intended to play are Sins and Rogues. The rest is a whole mess. Sins are still DPS while Rogues disable, make money.

Doesn't mean rogues are balance though, they are still better killers but it is still been played as intended.

edit: Let me add more fuel to the fire.


Maces attack faster than axes, swords, daggers, 2hnd swords, and lances.

The fastest weapon in game: Fist
the 2nd fastest weapon : Maces

who can wear both? You guessed it!!!!!!!!!!! MONKKKKS!!!!!!

I still don't see none of the game masters answering or commenting on any of this. If i lived in Cali, i would go to their panel and make them answer by talking or by force :P. <3

Edited by carnisero, 12 July 2011 - 05:06 AM.

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#83 Viri

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:04 AM

You're making up roles. The fact you get to place your stat points/skill points and can build a character however you want is what sets RO apart from other games. Who are you to say what "the balance of the game as intended since the beginning" is? I'm just saying the classes CAN do things other than what you're saying they SHOULD be doing. Maybe you're wrong!? Since they do other jobs very well.

Basically I think you're making absurd assumptions and are completely wrong in everything that you just said, if that wasn't clear.

Attack speed is mostly a nonfactor in any pvp situation. At least how you're describing it.

Edited by Viri, 12 July 2011 - 05:12 AM.

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#84 Kadelia

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:43 AM

IMO if you can easily kill several people with a skill solo, then the skill is not balanced for team play, as you do not need a team backing you up.

In a properly balanced game:
  • Glass cannons (ultra-high ranged dps/low tanking/low support) need tanks to protect them, as they are fragile.
  • Melee DPS/Tankers (med dps/high tanking/low support) should not be able to kill alone due to not having enough firepower, they need to hold the enemy while glass canons deal damage
  • Support characters (low dps/med tanking/high support) need low defense and low offense, requiring glass canons to deal their damage and melee DPS to hold aggro from reaching them. They provide battlefield support such as healing or buffs.
  • Hybrid role classes (e.g. med/med/med) give up something to gain something. For example, a melee DPS can give up either some offense (medium-->low) or some defense (high-->medium or low) in exchange for some buff/support features.
Ragnarok's flaw? Sura is a Cannon-tank-supporter.

Unbalanced classes
  • Sura: ultra-high dps / high tanking / med support => needs to be => med-high dps/med tanking/med-low support
  • Royal Guard: high dps / high tanking / med support => needs to be => low dps/high tanking/med support
  • Rune Knight: high dps / high tanking / low support => needs to be => med dps/high tanking/low support
Slightly Unbalanced
  • Sorcerer: med ranged dps / med tanking / med support => needs to be => low-med ranged dps / med tanking / med-high support
Balanced classes
  • Genetic: med dps / med tanking / med support => should be => med-low dps/med tanking/med-high support
  • Arch Bishop: low dps / med tanking / high support
  • Shadow Chaser: low-med dps / med tanking / med-high support
  • Guillotine Cross: med dps/med-high tanking/med-low support
  • Maestro: low dps / med tanking / high support => should be => med dps/low tanking/high support
Weaker Classes
  • Mechanic: med dps / med tanking / low-med support => needs to be => high dps/med tanking/low support
  • Ranger: med ranged dps / low tanking / low support => needs to be => ultra-high dps/low tanking/low support
  • Wanderer: low dps / med tanking / med support => needs to be => med dps/low tanking/high support
  • Warlock: med dps / low tanking / low-med support => needs to be => ultra-high dps/low tanking/low support

Balanced should be low/med/high or med/med/med, or ultra-high/low/low.

Honestly RO always struck me as a game of choice, where you could do your own stats and skills and couldn't get all the skills, and often had multiple paths available. Touching on what Viri said.

It should be possible to be like;
Support Priest: low dps/med tanking/high support
Hybrid Battle-support Priest: med dps/med tanking/med support
Battle Priest: med-high dps/med tanking/med-low support
Defensive RG: low dps/high tanking/med support
Offensive RG: high dps/med tanking/low support
Hybrid RG: med dps/med tanking/med support or med dps/high tanking/low support
Supportive Performer: low dps/med tanking/high support
Hybrid Performer: med range dps/med tanking/med support
Offensive Performer: high range dps/low tanking/med support
etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

Some people claim that just because a skill (i.e. sura's hell's gate) can be counbtered with penuma, that class is balanced. This is a logical fallacy. The balance problems exist when one class siphons roles off another class and consolidates more usefulness in one character than another. Sura is a top-tier class for obvious reasons. Why would you play a mechanic when you could play a Sura? Refer to the lists above to see the discrepency in their impact on various roles.

Sura: ultra-high dps / high tanking / med support => needs to be => med-high dps/med tanking/med-low support

An example of fixing sura would be to remove vitalize and remove the +% hp component of raising dragon. This would bring down Sura's HP substantially, weaking both gate of hell (their offense) their tanking ability, and their supportive ability (vitalize is a godly buff for level 1-130 characters). Mental Strength should probably be taken down a notch so that Sura aren't better MVP tanks than RGs and RKs (perhaps 75% damage reduction instead of 90%). Rampage Blaster, sky net blow, and others may need to have their damage reduced by some small %.

Edited by Jaye, 12 July 2011 - 06:10 AM.

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#85 Susan

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:21 AM

An example of fixing sura would be to remove vitalize and remove the +% hp component of raising dragon. This would bring down Sura's HP substantially, weaking both gate of hell (their offense) their tanking ability, and their supportive ability (vitalize is a godly buff for level 1-130 characters).


but they cant get GOH AND Revitalize :P
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#86 carnisero

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:45 AM

You're making up roles. The fact you get to place your stat points/skill points and can build a character however you want is what sets RO apart from other games. Who are you to say what "the balance of the game as intended since the beginning" is? I'm just saying the classes CAN do things other than what you're saying they SHOULD be doing. Maybe you're wrong!? Since they do other jobs very well.

Basically I think you're making absurd assumptions and are completely wrong in everything that you just said, if that wasn't clear.

Attack speed is mostly a nonfactor in any pvp situation. At least how you're describing it.

not everything is about PVP. MOnks so happen to own at MVP and PVM too.

Anybody with common sense will take a look at each 2-1 and 2-2 skills and tell you what their role are in the game. There is alot of evidence that the game is broken and not how its meant to be. The evidence is how many people complain about their class been underpowered compare to others.


but they cant get GOH AND Revitalize :P

yes you can.

Edited by carnisero, 12 July 2011 - 06:53 AM.

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#87 Kadelia

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 08:25 AM

You can get vitalize from another allied sura.
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#88 Easly

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 08:28 AM

revit takes 16 skill points

goh takes 38 skill points

best you'll do is goh 10 revit 3 and rising dragon 5

Edited by Easly, 12 July 2011 - 08:29 AM.

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#89 Viri

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 03:11 PM

not everything is about PVP. MOnks so happen to own at MVP and PVM too.

Anybody with common sense will take a look at each 2-1 and 2-2 skills and tell you what their role are in the game. There is alot of evidence that the game is broken and not how its meant to be. The evidence is how many people complain about their class been underpowered compare to others.



yes you can.


Disagree, on every game where the GM/Dev team listens to whining every class complains that its underpowered and every other class is overpowered in order to get free handouts. If the GM team didn't let people put in their ridiculous input and then make gamebreaking changes on it in the first place iRO would be a better place.
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#90 Mefistofeles

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 03:24 PM

[*]Sorcerer: med ranged dps / med tanking / med support => needs to be => low-med ranged dps / med tanking / med-high support

Believe me... you dont know how sad its the damage of any sorc in woe... with pw its like 900 per hit of psychic wave with a sorc of 120 int+kronos+level 150, and sorcerer its not more a support class, in the sorcerer skill tree they are only 3 support skills.
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#91 Viri

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:15 PM

Support skills for sorc...

Diamond dust, vacuum extreme, striking, arullo, warmer and then good old dispel from scholar tree, fiberlock, blinding mist, spell breaker, potentially soul siphon. Even some of the pet skills are pretty supporty. Just saying
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#92 Kadelia

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:36 PM

My opinion of the 2-1 / 2-2 trees is the 2-1 (with exception of priest) are offensive and 2-2 are classes that sacrifice some offense for support abilities.

Wizard - Was the glass cannon magical ranged dps
Sage - Sacrificed offensive power for supportive ability like endow/dispel/ME.

Blacksmith - Was high DPS melee
Alchemist - Sacrified melee DPS for supportive skills like coatings & aid pot.

Hunter - Was glass canon physical ranged dps
Performer - Sacrificed a bit of offensive power for some supportive skills (e.g. magic strings, dazzler).

Assassin - Was close range high DPS melee
Rogue - Sacrificed offensive power for supportive ability like snatch, divest & close confine

Knight - Was close range tank / melee DPS.
Crusader - Sacrificed offense for support ability like Guard, Defending Aura, Sacrifice and more.

Priest - Fully supportive class.
Monk - Reverse of all the other 2-2, since its better half is already supportive. This sacrifices support power for more offense.

Why after that people only consider performer the one to have transitioned into "support" is beyond my comprehension.

Edited by Jaye, 12 July 2011 - 04:40 PM.

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#93 Viri

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:41 PM

They should just take away all damage capabilities of some of those classes so people get the hint, rofl

EDIT: and fix partying ofc

Edited by Viri, 12 July 2011 - 04:41 PM.

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#94 Kadelia

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:52 PM

Game doesn't really need more than 1 fully supportive class
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#95 Marloe

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:46 PM

People see performer as a "support" because of all those classes performers are the ones that got supportive abilities most similar to a priest's.

Heal - Lutie
Bless - Strings, Focus Ballet
Decrease Agi - Slow Grace
Increase Agi - Impressive Riff, Perfect Tablature
Magnificat - Gypsy's Kiss

These solos were applied differently than the single-target (exception Magnificat) but the function is too similar to discount or ignore. While all of the 2-2s except monk received supportive skills, the performers received the STRONGEST of these supportive skills (and in so doing should give up the most damage).

To remove performers as a "supportive" class they'd have to take most (if not all) of our skills away.
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#96 meoryou2

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:46 PM

My opinion of the 2-1 / 2-2 trees is the 2-1 (with exception of priest) are offensive and 2-2 are classes that sacrifice some offense for support abilities.

Wizard - Was the glass cannon magical ranged dps
Sage - Sacrificed offensive power for supportive ability like endow/dispel/ME.

Blacksmith - Was high DPS melee
Alchemist - Sacrified melee DPS for supportive skills like coatings & aid pot.


Hunter - Was glass canon physical ranged dps
Performer - Sacrificed a bit of offensive power for some supportive skills (e.g. magic strings, dazzler).

Assassin - Was close range high DPS melee
Rogue - Sacrificed offensive power for supportive ability like snatch, divest & close confine

Knight - Was close range tank / melee DPS.
Crusader - Sacrificed offense for support ability like Guard, Defending Aura, Sacrifice and more.

Priest - Fully supportive class.
Monk - Reverse of all the other 2-2, since its better half is already supportive. This sacrifices support power for more offense.

Why after that people only consider performer the one to have transitioned into "support" is beyond my comprehension.


Actually they both had offensive and support skills. Blacksmith was melee DPS with party wide ASPD increase ( for mace / axe weilders only, until soul links came out ) and powerthrust for higher damage with a chance of breaking weapons. Alchemists have always had the ranged DPS skills Acid Terror and Bomb ( and yes we used to MVP with these skills.... it worked decently if you had the right setup ) balanced by aid pot and coatings. I don't think alchemist actually sacrificed melee DPS since we never were a truly melee DPS character, we have pretty much always been a ranged item / kind of trap ( you leave a Bomb on the floor and drag a mob on it) using class OR crafters / supporters if you went that build... unless you count cart revo mobbing and mammo spamming, but those are for both classes.
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#97 Puppet

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:55 PM

Disagree, on every game where the GM/Dev team listens to whining every class complains that its underpowered and every other class is overpowered in order to get free handouts. If the GM team didn't let people put in their ridiculous input and then make gamebreaking changes on it in the first place iRO would be a better place.


seriously its kRO fault iRO is screw up and broke, not even jRO listens to kRO any more mostly cause Japanese company own gravity now, which begs the question why is iRO listen to kRO when they caused the problem ?


but they need to fix the fact that goh has 2 part to the damage forumla and one of the parts completely ignores Demi reduction like many other 3rd class skills, but seeing gravity cant fix this with out kro doing it for them it just not gona happen, and even when these balance changes "come" to us i dont think it gona fix jack :D and woe still gona be one shot fest.

Edited by Puppet, 12 July 2011 - 07:00 PM.

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