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#1 Ardi

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:23 PM

Why do people whine anytime someone suggests that clearance be made offensive as well as castable in alliance/out of party? I mean seriously it is THE ONLY useful skill for ABs at this point (besides sacrament). What do we do in woe honestly? We click AoE buffs/Sacrament/Pnuma... seriously an aco skill outclasses clearance usage at this point. What are people so afraid ABs with like 25k HP at 150 is going to do that is soooo bad? Clearance and enemy in woe? Take away preserve from a SC that is annoying as :waddle:? I think that is what an AB SHOULD be able to do. Give us a little more to do in WoE so we don't get bored out of our minds and start dual clienting something more useful. If clearance debuffs everything from an ally why not an enemy?

tldr-got annoyed about people QQing that clearance shouldn't be changed.
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#2 Kadnya

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:46 PM

If chasers had a way to copy flying kick back without having to go to pvp (for example, the npc outside woe realms could allow chasers to cpy flying kick); then offensive clearance would be perfectly fine, in my opinion. Much less impact than for example, a chaser taking mounts away, since chasers could do something to counter clearance (just react on time and preserve again). Even if they did lose flying kick, they would remain very useful until they decide it's time to respawn and copy flying kick again.

It would be super if clearance could be a true recovery move. Let clearance be usable on anyone, and usable on yourself while being inflicted by status, like how suras can recover while being statused, or how can rune knights remove bad statuses from themselves while being statused too...

Imagine if clearance was made an instant or spammable recovery skill which is not affected by howling, stasis, being under deep sleep, or other status. There wouldn't be a need of mass AoE party chance of recovery skills, which makes those status too powerful, if the recovery is uneffective (like now), or too weak if the recovery is too effective (laudas update in the future). Clearance as the recovery skill, and then have the bishop reaction and skill be of importance... instead of pressing AoE buttons without even looking at the screen, like now.
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#3 Andini

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 04:58 PM

Dw gms prob will next do +11 glor wand is like instant cast clearance with no delay
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#4 Riand

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 05:31 PM

Pretty sure the real problem was that they didn't know how to make Clearance restricted to WoE only, and so if they enabled it, people would use it to grief outside of WoE. :waddle:
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#5 Ardi

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 05:50 PM

I don't believe that. They made other skills unusable on certain maps/outside woe.
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#6 BlackPotato

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 06:30 PM

If chasers had a way to copy flying kick back without having to go to pvp (for example, the npc outside woe realms could allow chasers to cpy flying kick); then offensive clearance would be perfectly fine, in my opinion. Much less impact than for example, a chaser taking mounts away, since chasers could do something to counter clearance (just react on time and preserve again). Even if they did lose flying kick, they would remain very useful until they decide it's time to respawn and copy flying kick again.

It would be super if clearance could be a true recovery move. Let clearance be usable on anyone, and usable on yourself while being inflicted by status, like how suras can recover while being statused, or how can rune knights remove bad statuses from themselves while being statused too...

Imagine if clearance was made an instant or spammable recovery skill which is not affected by howling, stasis, being under deep sleep, or other status. There wouldn't be a need of mass AoE party chance of recovery skills, which makes those status too powerful, if the recovery is uneffective (like now), or too weak if the recovery is too effective (laudas update in the future). Clearance as the recovery skill, and then have the bishop reaction and skill be of importance... instead of pressing AoE buttons without even looking at the screen, like now.


wow. you actually earned my - for the day instead of droyd. thats a HORRIBLE idea. SC doesnt need a buff, theyre annoying as :waddle: anyways as stalkers always have been. its "such" a hassle to go pick it back up in pvp. Flying Kick should be disabled in woe. maybe then people will learn to use the class instead of just spam the skill, since backslide still works in woe

Edited by BlackPotato, 08 July 2011 - 06:31 PM.

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#7 jax5

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 06:57 PM

On the one hand, clearance being made able to cast on self and players out of party could be a good thing for AB play.

On the other hand, there are negative issues:
-like the repeatedly mentioned linked shadow chaser with preserve active
-or someone leveling in PvM that gets buffs removed by a griefing AB (rune buffs, kafra shop scrolls, etc.)

For the time being, I don't think gravity are able to change clearance to only allow those positive points, but I think it's being worked on.
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#8 asayuu

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:32 PM

I disagree with Flying Kick being unusable in WOE. But they should be used only by their original class [Taekwon Boy/Girl/Master, for who does not know]

Edit: Let me say again~~~~ Flying Kick~~~~~~~ Not Flying Dagger~

So the devs could "implement" the transclass script on the extended classes, being extended skills be also unable to be copied by the rogue class D:

But. Jax, check something here: http://forums.irowik...ead.php?t=79958

Let me quote the right line for you.

[Wanderer/Maestro]

Harmonize: The user and target's status weighting is changed to decrease the same.
Severe Rainstorm: Damage varies based on skill level, but the duration of the skill is now the same for all levels.
Gloomy: Can be used on anyone in siege and PVP maps, but can only be used on party members on other maps.


If they can make Gloomy work that way, making it on Clearance will be a jump. But then they should also "fix" Clearance to work in the same way [That fix would be a nerf, but for who does not know, Clearance was supposed to have a fail rate]. We just need to wait for this respective KRO patch to check.

And about linked stalkers with preserve. We should kill the person who made Rogue Link have this effect.

Edited by asayuu, 08 July 2011 - 07:36 PM.

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#9 jax5

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:41 PM

If they can make Gloomy work that way, making it on Clearance will be a jump. But then they should also "fix" Clearance to work in the same way [That fix would be a nerf, but for who does not know, Clearance was supposed to have a fail rate]. We just need to wait for this respective KRO patch to check.

And about linked stalkers with preserve. We should kill the person who made Rogue Link have this effect.


Some time in the semi-recent past, clearance was originally planned to be usable outside of party. It made it to some pre-patch notes, but was ultimately removed, I believe with some vagure reasons of being unable to prevent usage of skill with regards to undesirable exploits.

Even if other skills migh have desirable map-selectivity in their function, I wouldn't think this automatically means every skill could easily be modified to have the same selectivity.
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#10 Nombus

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:11 PM

While there are many skills that should not be possible to remove that clearance does, the best that comes to mind is EDP. It is far too costly to consider it reasonable that clearance should be able to remove it in WoE, let alone the abuse possible outside WoE.
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#11 Fibrizzo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:01 AM

Because ABs are so OP and it's a way to balance the game.

Ok, no.
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#12 Pril

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:38 AM

While there are many skills that should not be possible to remove that clearance does, the best that comes to mind is EDP. It is far too costly to consider it reasonable that clearance should be able to remove it in WoE, let alone the abuse possible outside WoE.

Karvodailnirols are dirt cheap on Valk compared to the price of pots. It's like, a third of the cost of a single ale whilst the skill itself is instant cast and has no cooldown. If this is the best, then there really is no reason not to allow clearance to be useable on everyone in WoE.

As well, the aim of the discussion is also asking for it to be more flexibly usable in WoE, not outside of WoE.
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#13 Myzery

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:43 AM

Karvodailnirols are dirt cheap on Valk compared to the price of pots. It's like, a third of the cost of a single ale whilst the skill itself is instant cast and has no cooldown. If this is the best, then there really is no reason not to allow clearance to be useable on everyone in WoE.

As well, the aim of the discussion is also asking for it to be more flexibly usable in WoE, not outside of WoE.


Congratulations on having a bot driven economy. It's still around 100k per use on Ymir and while I don't mind paying that, but some people will and it's quite a lot for a new player.

Edited by Myzery, 09 July 2011 - 05:43 AM.

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#14 Kadnya

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 06:01 AM

Congratulations on having a bot driven economy. It's still around 100k per use on Ymir and while I don't mind paying that, but some people will and it's quite a lot for a new player.


Just don't re-EDP as soon as you are clearanced and you won't be wasting zeny. Or imagine that you have been killed by a sura or something, but for some reason you are still standing on the batlefield and able to move. Or re-EDP and kill the bishop in the 10 seconds delay after clearance...

Clearance won't be like bishops could be instantly mass dispelling, or affecting lots of players and changing the course of the battle in a second like cursed circling, deep sleep, howling, stasis and more, but more like picking one or two key players from the battle and weakening them a bit, while they rebuff and bishop is trying to stay alive.
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#15 Quazera

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:31 AM

I agree that clearance should be usable outside of party WITHIN WOE ONLY~ I only caps-ed that, dont make me droyd-ify it~

So please think of scenarios that only involve WoE for people like Nombus who extend it outwards. (quick fix to yours is leave party or kick bishop~)

And yes, it's not like every single AB has clearance...and it's not always a 100% chance of success (or that's how its supposed to be) and its not like you can't just, oh I don't know, come poke us to death to get rid of us~ It's not that difficult with our HP pool because here's the deal:
YOU as a killer can make US "go away". WE as support(actually bishops only) have no way to do that (even if you chose the battle/ME priest way). Ergo, if it was just "Bishop VS killer", you'd always be able to get rid of us clearance-ed or not unless the killer either gives up or the bishop survives through long enough to get backup. THIS is how you deal with anything that's giving you trouble; kill the character that's causing it.

SO, if you tried hard enough clearance shouldn't be too big of a problem.

Another reason this helps in WOE
"Smaller" guilds might get a good turn out, 20-30 people, but might not have two, three AB's with clearance. Parties only fit 12 people. 11 will have the chance to get clearanced, the other half the the guild is left to deal.
This probably isn't a problem for larger guilds since they most likely have more than enough high level bishops to fit one in each party so having it used outside of party in WOE ONLY can help even things out here and there.

----------------------------

On a different note. HOW THEE FUDGE do you tell if clearance works without staring at the screen for a micro shine that lasts like half a second? Maybe have something like:
"clearance has failed/succeeded"
or
"so and so's buffs have been cleared/failed to be cleared" <--- kinda like this one, you can see the name of the person you cleared, just in case you cleared the wrong one~
or
add some sort of flashier animation on success to let us know?
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#16 Ardi

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:51 AM

What is the deal with SC thinking they shouldn't be allowed to lose Flying Kick. It happens all the time when link runs out anyway. Hell you take away peoples Dragons/Gryphons. Are you soooo scared that an ab is able to do something useful that you might want to try and have your sura's/genetics/baby warlocks kill them? Hell even a gx can come up and wack us to death pretty easy. I just want ABs to have a USEFUL role in woe that is NOT just click one skill -> tab back to other more useful account.

Edited by Ardi, 09 July 2011 - 10:52 AM.

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#17 Susan

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:18 AM

I don't believe that. They made other skills unusable on certain maps/outside woe.

like Soul Exhale! Outside woe it's party only. In woe it's offensive too.
Never heard of an exploit happened by Soulexhale outside pvp/woe.


I just want ABs to have a USEFUL role in woe that is NOT just click one skill -> tab back to other more useful account.

Give up already, this will never happen.
The change to Clearance is so tiny yet so good and they still don't add it.
They simply must hate ABs (or YOU!).



at your first post:


Why do people whine anytime someone suggests that clearance be made offensive as well as castable in alliance/out of party?

I don't get why people would cry about that. It certainly would make their guilds ABs reconsider NOT-quitting twice.
Or they are too dumb to realize that it will effect themselves in a positive way too. Or they like to solo woe.

Edited by Susan, 09 July 2011 - 11:20 AM.

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#18 Fibrizzo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:14 PM

Just don't re-EDP as soon as you are clearanced and you won't be wasting zeny. Or imagine that you have been killed by a sura or something, but for some reason you are still standing on the batlefield and able to move. Or re-EDP and kill the bishop in the 10 seconds delay after clearance...

Clearance won't be like bishops could be instantly mass dispelling, or affecting lots of players and changing the course of the battle in a second like cursed circling, deep sleep, howling, stasis and more, but more like picking one or two key players from the battle and weakening them a bit, while they rebuff and bishop is trying to stay alive.

If clearance succeed...
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#19 GuardianTK

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:55 PM

What is the deal with SC thinking they shouldn't be allowed to lose Flying Kick. It happens all the time when link runs out anyway. Hell you take away peoples Dragons/Gryphons. Are you soooo scared that an ab is able to do something useful that you might want to try and have your sura's/genetics/baby warlocks kill them? Hell even a gx can come up and wack us to death pretty easy. I just want ABs to have a USEFUL role in woe that is NOT just click one skill -> tab back to other more useful account.

At least they set up an npc to get your mounts back in every WoE realm. I can't say I'd be scared, but I'd be annoyed as hell for having to log another account of my own for Flying Kick, hope for there to be no recall, run off to pvp with both characters, and then get Flying Kick. That makes for a lot more time wasted than simply finding an npc in a WoE realm for a mount. Hell, they even put kafras there too! At least put an npc that resets Flying Kick back to Intimidate.
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#20 Susan

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 01:05 PM

So you are telling me clearance doesn't get a buff because of Stalkers copying Flying Kick? LOL.



What the hell.
You know you could make Preserve immune to clearance too, that way you won't have to recast it when your own AB clearances you.
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#21 Nombus

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 01:22 PM

Just don't re-EDP as soon as you are clearanced and you won't be wasting zeny. Or imagine that you have been killed by a sura or something, but for some reason you are still standing on the batlefield and able to move. Or re-EDP and kill the bishop in the 10 seconds delay after clearance...

Clearance won't be like bishops could be instantly mass dispelling, or affecting lots of players and changing the course of the battle in a second like cursed circling, deep sleep, howling, stasis and more, but more like picking one or two key players from the battle and weakening them a bit, while they rebuff and bishop is trying to stay alive.


It doesn't have to. As long as there is a AB on the screen EDP will be basically useless as it will become the priority of ABS to use clearance everytime a GX shows their face. 10 seconds is not long enough for this to be a ultimate debuff of this sort. EDP has always been immune to debuffs because of its extravagant cost, it should remain so.

Do you want other examples of skills that should not be possible to debuff this easy? Inspiration. It's already a little ridiculous as it only requires the RG to loose all their sp to be removed and then they are forced into a 5 minute cooldown. Just another example of a character that would run into a AB with clearance and find themselves basically useless, as any RG that has gotten inspiration focus' on using Genesis Ray to kill.

Edited by Nombus, 09 July 2011 - 01:27 PM.

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#22 Kadnya

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 01:55 PM

It doesn't have to. As long as there is a AB on the screen EDP will be basically useless as it will become the priority of ABS to use clearance everytime a GX shows their face. 10 seconds is not long enough for this to be a ultimate debuff of this sort. EDP has always been immune to debuffs because of its extravagant cost, it should remain so.

Do you want other examples of skills that should not be possible to debuff this easy? Inspiration. It's already a little ridiculous as it only requires the RG to loose all their sp to be removed and then they are forced into a 5 minute cooldown. Just another example of a character that would run into a AB with clearance and find themselves basically useless, as any RG that has gotten inspiration focus' on using Genesis Ray to kill.


Well, if you need like 5 bishops to keep 1 Gx without EDP, then I think that sounds fair, actually =p. As you have said, soul siphon already removes inspiration, clearance would remove inspiration with about the same %chance, but with a 5 seconds cast bar you can interrupt vs the no cast time of soul siphon. RG isn't exactly a weak class either... you can probably oneshot the bishop on sight anyways.

Edited by Kadnya, 09 July 2011 - 01:57 PM.

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#23 Nombus

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 02:27 PM

You would need one AB to keep that GX from EDPing. EDP has a long global skill delay (2 seconds or so), and it's remarkably easy to take down a GX who is using melee attacks. That provides 8 seconds to attack given that you don't have to factor in reaction time to reEDPing. Anyhow you are ignoring my arguements as to its cost. The ease of removing EDP alone in WoE (like removing most other buffs) is not an issue, but the time and effort to gather the items necessary for a skill to be so easily countered is ridiculous. If EDP were like shield reflect, that would not be a problem. However, it is not.

As for inspiration, yes, I pointed out how it can be removed currently quite easily, while suggesting how that is already problematic. It's the reason why just about every RG does not get Inspiration or Genisis Ray currently. You speak of it as though its fine to make this situation even worse. Why add to a problem just because its already problematic? The situation needs fixing, not further creation of imballance.

Edited by Nombus, 09 July 2011 - 02:39 PM.

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#24 Myzery

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 02:48 PM

What is the deal with SC thinking they shouldn't be allowed to lose Flying Kick. It happens all the time when link runs out anyway. Hell you take away peoples Dragons/Gryphons. Are you soooo scared that an ab is able to do something useful that you might want to try and have your sura's/genetics/baby warlocks kill them? Hell even a gx can come up and wack us to death pretty easy. I just want ABs to have a USEFUL role in woe that is NOT just click one skill -> tab back to other more useful account.


Because the link says that you can't be dispelled?
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#25 Kadnya

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 03:29 PM

Because the link says that you can't be dispelled?


You are not being dispelled, you are being clearanced! :)
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