64 replies to this topic

[asayuu]

The Rogue + Linker mechanics are absurdely ridiculous.

Flying Kick has a secondary effect to remove TK/SL buffs (Including link). But stalkers with Preserve are IMMUNE to this secondary effect of Flying Kick. So you can't remove the link of Stalkers (But Stalkers can remove the link from other classes)

I think the guy who made Rogue Link was really a rogue fan. This is the only link [Except SL spirit] that is useful in all kinds of builds of the class.

All the other spirits just favour one or two kinds of builds, and most [again, except Rogue and (maybe) Bard/Dancer] are useless on third classes. Aka: Spiriting a third class is a waste of stuff on the actual game.

Well, the third class taekwon will come someday. So the third class links would become useful.

Also. There is another class [besides rogue class] that does not want Clearance working on everyone? Tell quick tell quick o: This is totally pointless, you know. Classes unable to do their role because other classes are afraid of them.

The problem on Clearance working on everyone was the trouble of the exploits of debuffing other people [I would love to use it at bots though, but I know this is unfair].

Most skills are already programmed to target differently in PVP. It won't be so hard to put others, programming is mostly "make functions and then make the other scripts call these functions".

And about EDP. A sage/sorcerer could always Dispell you, so why are there complaints about Clearance being able to do it too?

[Pril]

EDP is not removed by dispell.

[Cryslia]

lol ok this is just a thought an just a for fun idea nothing more why not have clearance changed to a targetable offensive bwing for WOE vs clearing all statuses to non party members add a red gem cost or yellow or both so it isnt fully abusable then cost of an edp or a flying kick etc isnt an issue

[LordVader]

Ok, renewal balancing concept was pretty much this.

Branch A and B of class X, what does B have that A doesn't? Give that to A and vice versa for B.

So you have high dps classes with buff/defense/attack skills and support classes with bad atk skills, bad buffs (b/c they thought buffs were already good), and bad defensive skills (goodbye assu).

Clearance being targetable outside of allies/party makes for a STRONG debuff. If it works like Tarot Card that removes everything including FCP it would be OP imo. But my knowledge of the skill itself is not full and it could be an interesting way to add dynamic to AB class.

[Myzery]

You are not being dispelled, you are being clearanced!

It's doing the same thing. This is pointless going back and forth. You'll most likely never get it, so I'll save my arguments if it does happen.

[Ardi]

I want to know your arguments now. I really don't see why people would be afraid of a skill with a cast time/cooldown/on a squishy class that noone really plays that may take away your buffs at a chance.

[Quazera]

FFS are you guys REALLY that scared of clearance?

[Scuba]

Actually, in these days there arent many skills in 3rd class woe where you'd lose flying kick. Gfist, maybe ruwatch or BB?

PS still wouldnt make me want to play AB.

Edited by Scuba, 09 July 2011 - 10:46 PM.

[Myzery]

No one is scared of it. Make a sage class if you want an offensive dispel.

[Kadnya]

No one is scared of it. Make a sage class if you want an offensive dispel.

And a defensive dispel.
And buffs.
And attacks.
And disables...
And more survivability...

Why was it wrong that archbishops were a bit more useful and closer to other third classes, again?
If you are not scared of clearance, and most people agree that bishops wouldn't be "overpowered" by having an actually useful recovery and debuff, but a bit better, then why not?

Clearance should definitively be made usable on ourselves and as a debuff.

Edited by Kadnya, 10 July 2011 - 07:49 AM.

[asayuu]

lol ok this is just a thought an just a for fun idea nothing more why not have clearance changed to a targetable offensive bwing for WOE vs clearing all statuses to non party members add a red gem cost or yellow or both so it isnt fully abusable then cost of an edp or a flying kick etc isnt an issue

It's easier to allow Warp Portal on WOE than doing that. But it would totally give skill abuse.

About "targetable offensive bwing" = G. Fist.

[Tarot Card]

This kind of Dispell is VERY powerful, but it has only 3% success rate. [40% to the skill hit, 1/14 chance to show the right card after it hits]

And about Tarot. Tarot is really very powerful. It can break revested gears. It can drop the target's HP to 1 [My friend 88 minstrel killed a 150 RG this way], it can ignore plant defense. And even [untested by myself after Renewal] damage the Emperium.

[Dispell]

Yeah, it requires a yellow gem to work, and does not remove all the buffs. But. It can be targeted on anyone (Monsters + Force-shift for party/guild members), with a little cast time and delay. I don't know WHY clearance should not work. It has a very high fixed cast time, and a cooldown. Is EDP the problem? Farm more for the items. Is the lose of Flying Kick the problem? Preserve as fast as you can. We can always request to Clearance be unable to remove those buffs. But why? It was supposed to remove everything.

Dispell was also supposed to remove Preserve from stalkers, until someone ridiculous crazy made the Rogue Link give the immunity to Dispell. [Don't forget the speed-potion speed on Stealth, and the doubled ranked potion healing. If this was given to all the spirits, they would be good for something]

[Quazera]

No one is scared of it. Make a sage class if you want an offensive dispel.

If everyone had a mind set like yours this game would be done. Your way of thinking is avoidance, not correction. Keep a game stagnant, no fixes, no response to its players and it will die hella fast.

[Nombus]

Myzery is taking too hard of a stance on this. Yet there are many who realize that a skill that can recovery and debuff anything in game is silly. It's no suprise that the majority of people in this thread claiming full clearance dubuffs to every buff in game would not be a problem are on Valkyrie where item gathering is not an issue.

If you want it as a full debuff then think of what might balance that to the buffs that require a good deal of time hunting. Perhaps making clearance on enemies have a reasonable item requirement that is crafted from rare items. This skill is that much better than dispel, it should be that much costly to use if it is to become a debuff skill capable of removing costly buffs. Either make certain buffs immune to it, or give it a cost that makes people think twice before using it. While a third option may be possible, it's unlikely, of giving it a low chance of working as that would likely have to affect the success rate on removing status ailments also.

Really, think about it and consider actual balanced options of implementing it rather than jumping on a bandwagon and claiming others are perpetuation a problem. Clearance at a 80% success rate would be brokenly powerful with just a 10 second wait time. The 10 Second wait was simply made to stop new status ailments from becoming completely useless (a spammable Clearance would have made it unreasonable to use things like new poisons). If you want this change it will have to come with another balance that is on scale with how good the skill will become.

Edited by Nombus, 10 July 2011 - 10:39 AM.

[Viri]

ITT people who never played stalkers. rofl. If it really is a full dispel then it should remove full chemical protection just like tarot card of fate does which would be pretty sweet for chasers. I bet you'll all complain thats overpowered though. But nerf stalkers, yup

[GuardianTK]

ITT people who never played stalkers. rofl. If it really is a full dispel then it should remove full chemical protection just like tarot card of fate does which would be pretty sweet for chasers. I bet you'll all complain thats overpowered though. But nerf stalkers, yup

Speaking of which, does the current Clearance remove RK buffs as well or no? I mean stuff like Millennium Shield or the +Str/Atk buff Runes.

[Myzery]

If everyone had a mind set like yours this game would be done. Your way of thinking is avoidance, not correction. Keep a game stagnant, no fixes, no response to its players and it will die hella fast.

If everyone had a mindset like me, the world would be a significantly better place. You're so close minded that you can't see that the majority of people disagree with you. It's only biased Bishop players in this thread for the most part.

You're getting buffs with one of the next patches. Not my fault that the devs currently feel that you don't need an offensive dispel.
I personally think that you should get a bit more HP. With the current game design, you're supposed to be in the back buffing, not going John Rambo up front dispelling people.

Edited by Myzery, 10 July 2011 - 09:24 PM.

[asayuu]

ITT people who never played stalkers. rofl. If it really is a full dispel then it should remove full chemical protection just like tarot card of fate does which would be pretty sweet for chasers. I bet you'll all complain thats overpowered though. But nerf stalkers, yup

Actually, my post is "Nerf Linkers", not "Nerf Stalkers"

If you want it as a full debuff then think of what might balance that to the buffs that require a good deal of time hunting. Perhaps making clearance on enemies have a reasonable item requirement that is crafted from rare items. This skill is that much better than dispel, it should be that much costly to use if it is to become a debuff skill capable of removing costly buffs. Either make certain buffs immune to it, or give it a cost that makes people think twice before using it. While a third option may be possible, it's unlikely, of giving it a low chance of working as that would likely have to affect the success rate on removing status ailments also.

And. I think clearance should remove everything. Both positive and negative. And if the problem is the high cost of dispelled buffs, put Ancillas as catalysts. They won't be able to spam the skill continuously because of the Ancilla limit and high SP consumption to make one.

I think the third option would be "only target WOE allies (self, party, guildmates, alliance members)". This one would be the most reasonable though. Targetting enemies is that dual-sided coin. Some people love, some people hate.

Edited by asayuu, 10 July 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[Scuba]

Nerf linkers? Are you trolling?

[cybernetic]

Actually, my post is "Nerf Linkers", not "Nerf Stalkers"



And. I think clearance should remove everything. Both positive and negative. And if the problem is the high cost of dispelled buffs, put Ancillas as catalysts. They won't be able to spam the skill continuously because of the Ancilla limit and high SP consumption to make one.

I think the third option would be "only target WOE allies (self, party, guildmates, alliance members)". This one would be the most reasonable though. Targetting enemies is that dual-sided coin. Some people love, some people hate.

Unfortunately I don't think they (gravity developers) can differentiate between alliance and enemies, they're one in the same. The only difference is that enemies can be damaged and allies can't.

[Ardi]

I'm not even saying nerf SC. I'm just saying buff ABs to give us something useful to do in woe. Right now I can dual client my AB and play another class... and it works great!!

[Susan]

I don't even play an AB in woe.
I'm just tired of ABs switching to a char that is actually fun to play in woe and dies less. And being asked for Buffs on Sura because nobody plays AB anymore.**

Or they just quit because they realize their main char that they took 2x as long to hit 150 (no soloing for ABs!) is pretty boring and crappy in WoE.






**That's only if they are too cheap for buff scrolls

Edited by Susan, 11 July 2011 - 01:10 AM.

[Kadnya]

So, yesterday I was partying, being the killer for once. My archbishop partner (* sorry, I mean highpriest, but there is no difference really) got angry because I could walk around grabbing mobs, thank them, kill them, and almost healing myself in the process (hunterfly carga/ridy hat). Realizing that the chara you are playing is barely making a difference is massively discouraging.

At best, you will get an angry person switching to other class. At worst, you will get people saying bye to the game.

[Quazera]

^Same thing similar happened to me a lil while ago with a trap build ranger @ dragons...

Pre renewal we could do a few things: Support, even kill with ME and option to tank <--- we weren't labelled tanks but we still could if we wanted to

Post renewal we get this: Support...kinda if you count pressing two buttons every few min...and alt tab to something else

Funny thing is, if AB's get improved all round it helps EVERYONE in the game, not just themselves, but devs/people just seem against that~o__o

---------------

Another note on dispell VS clearance

Lets compare a little more in depth:
Clearance: 5 second variable cast time. Level 1 is a 40% chance to clear, level 5 is 80% chance. 10 second cooldown and can remove many of the new third class statuses/buffs as it should since it is also a third class skill. Catalyst to be discussed because it'll most likely have one, but as for now, none.
Dispell: 2 second cast time reducable to 1second with secrement. Has a aspd delay, can ALSO remove some of the third class statuses even though its a trans skill (hmm, makes clearance seem less useful), is offensive as well as defensive and can be made 100% chance to dispell at level 5 (60% at lvl 1). Catalyst yellow gem.

If you dare to say its only a 100% chance to dispel at level 5, who the fawk gets it to level 5 then I'll throw this right back in your face with the 16 job level to max clearance w/o any other skills other than pre-requisits. 42 job levels to aquire it with max secrement which most people will go for first and 46 job levels to get it with cantocanditus. and I wonder, which class is harder to level? Which class's job levels are a biotch to get? You tell me. Even at level 1 dispell has a better chance of landing than clearance. Which do you fear? dispelled in 4 seconds or clearanced in 30? The fact that most characters are near end game level when they max this skill makes comparing it to dispell a joke. Clearance SHOULD be stronger than dispell but right now, it isn't, its an debuff for allies which are at the moment a MAXIMUM of 11 people per arch bishop. Something seems wrong here?

Edited by Quazera, 11 July 2011 - 09:40 AM.

[Nombus]

So, yesterday I was partying, being the killer for once. My archbishop partner (* sorry, I mean highpriest, but there is no difference really) got angry because I could walk around grabbing mobs, thank them, kill them, and almost healing myself in the process (hunterfly carga/ridy hat). Realizing that the chara you are playing is barely making a difference is massively discouraging.

At best, you will get an angry person switching to other class. At worst, you will get people saying bye to the game.

How is the relevant to a thread discussing the possibility of buffing clearance? Clearance will not help you become a better member of a party.

Its generally agree that ABs are superflous in many parties. Its generally agreed something has to be done about this. However, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Clearance is primarily a PvP skill, and ABs are going to be the foundation of survival come the ballance patch with the party recovery spells. They are very useful in WoE currently, and will be essentially shortly.

Edited by Nombus, 11 July 2011 - 10:13 AM.

[asayuu]

Nerf linkers? Are you trolling?

YES I AM!

Actually, what exactly what I want is equality to all the spirits. It's easier to nerf 1 spirit instead of buffing 10~13. I know Gravity loves to nerf, not buff, so~~~~~~ Rogue Spirit is SO cheap, and the others are crap.

The other three spirits that are not so crappy as the others are:

Bard/Dancer - User can be affected by solos/ensembles; No move penalty; They can learn the opposite gender solos; - I can't see any possible improvement. Maybe solo ensembles?
Alchemist - You get three skills to make potions faster. Some requires "angels" (members of some specific class) to work. You also can throw berserk potions to people. And your white potions heal better than AB's High Heal level 1. - The problem on Alchemist Spirit is the huge restriction of potions. Only whites / Only slim whites / only acid and bombs. I would love to be able to make 200 blue potions at once~~~~ hehe~
Sage - Hindsight cast your level of "spell" instead of listed on the Hindsight list. Purely a leveling tool. Nice effect but... Just that? The other two spirits listed above, and Rogue has at least 3 effects.

The problem in the spirits is focusing in only one build [Coincidentally, after renewal, the builds that the spirit affects are useless]. Like. Knight spirit is useful just for sword builds. Crusader spirit is useful just for shield builds. Sage is useful just for battle sages. Priest and Wizard are useless. Monk is pointless to use.

Unfortunately I don't think they (gravity developers) can differentiate between alliance and enemies, they're one in the same. The only difference is that enemies can be damaged and allies can't.

Yes, they can. http://irowiki.org/w...ondensed_Potion If they copy this pattern, it might work.

@Lii~

Normal sages can get Dispell. Not only scholars, like your line "even though its a trans skill"" said~ hehe~

Also. Clearance seems to be bugged. So it's 100% all the time.

Oh let's make Clearance dispel everyone in a 5x5 area using one of each gem, or even a Ancilla~ And it is too cheap, put it at 50% rate on level 5 o:

Well, I don't know. There will be the book able to clear the cooldown of Clearance... So we can't say so much until it comes.