Rants on Pallies in PVP - Page 5 - Dragon Saga Community Chat - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
* - - - - 2 votes

Rants on Pallies in PVP


  • Please log in to reply
109 replies to this topic

#101 Yurai

Yurai

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2917 posts
  • Playing:Pogo's Lounge

Posted 16 July 2011 - 07:04 AM

holy shmokes

i felt that reaction was needed for this.

Though his armor was godly, as far as i could tell (and that is seeing he had lots of artifacts and 1 or 2 legendaries).


He had no legends and he had more advanced equips than artifact/special.
  • 0

#102 Rimmy

Rimmy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Dragon Saga Moderator
  • 2354 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 16 July 2011 - 07:11 AM

holy shmokes

i felt that reaction was needed for this.

Though his armor was godly, as far as i could tell (and that is seeing he had lots of artifacts and 1 or 2 legendaries).


He has 2 solar rings (I'm guessing 10-star Alex since he has over 19K MATK), which factors in quite a bit and is an extreme case. Your average invoker with a +20 weapon has around 13-14K MATK, so those 2 rings alone are boosting his attack by almost 50%. The vast majority of invokers won't have anywhere near that kind of killing power.
  • 0

#103 Maronu

Maronu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2358 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 16 July 2011 - 03:17 PM

That's true if you're fighting certain mobs that move and attack slowly, perhaps, but at higher levels in a place like F1 Kryos, it doesn't really hold up in my experience. As Miname said, Rolling Ground -- it destroys mobs faster than any invoker can, IMO, except on the rare occasion where they're perfectly grouped together for Rain of Fire (also assuming there are only about 7 targets max). I've tried countless times to keep up with the aforementioned dragoon while he's spamming RG, and I can't. It's not really a matter of MSPD/ASPD/FPS, either, it's the fact that the mobs can hit you with knockdown/flinch/launch attacks while you're X-spamming. The dragoon doesn't have to deal with that too often (thanks to block rate and attacks that cause enemies to flinch repeatedly or fall down), so they just keep barreling right on through -- and if they're also stacking movespeed, they're that much faster, too.

I'm not sure. I always thought I was able to keep up with stacked dragoons better than stacked invokers and always thought stacked invokers seemed to do runs faster, but I've never actually timed the characters.

However, if you have enough attack speed, movespeed, and a +20 weapon, I'm not really sure how the mobs are even getting a chance to attack you or knock you down. I would say it is a matter of attack speed if you are getting hit at all. I haven't been with bigpig and shuzelin at kyros in awhile, so I'm not really sure if it is that particular map, but I'm not sure why one of the most stacked dragoons on the server would use an invoker for pretty much everything unless it was generally faster or better for PVE. I've never liked rain of fire because it is so situational and makes you stop (one reason RG is way better), and from my experience x spam seems to almost always kill groups just as fast as RoF if not faster provided you have enough attack speed (my alt invoker doesn't have that much and x spam still seems to kill faster) Imo, the main upsides to invoker are that you have total character control and you can keep moving at all times. The moves most classes rely on cause them to stop when being used, and even the moves that let your character continue moving (except for windmill), cause you to lose control of your character and move in a set linear path. Perhaps the invoker's x spam kills slightly slower than RG when it comes to huge clumps/lines of mobs, but you also don't lose control of your character or have to wait for the animation to finish when killing. That makes invokers faster at killing small groups and mobs that are more spread out, which makes them able to kill a bit faster on most maps, imo.


Anyway, the best pvp class shouldn't be the second or first best pvp class, and this topic isn't really about pve...
  • 0

#104 Rimmy

Rimmy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Dragon Saga Moderator
  • 2354 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 16 July 2011 - 06:41 PM

I'm not sure. I always thought I was able to keep up with stacked dragoons better than stacked invokers and always thought stacked invokers seemed to do runs faster, but I've never actually timed the characters.

However, if you have enough attack speed, movespeed, and a +20 weapon, I'm not really sure how the mobs are even getting a chance to attack you or knock you down. I would say it is a matter of attack speed if you are getting hit at all. I haven't been with bigpig and shuzelin at kyros in awhile, so I'm not really sure if it is that particular map, but I'm not sure why one of the most stacked dragoons on the server would use an invoker for pretty much everything unless it was generally faster or better for PVE. I've never liked rain of fire because it is so situational and makes you stop (one reason RG is way better), and from my experience x spam seems to almost always kill groups just as fast as RoF if not faster provided you have enough attack speed (my alt invoker doesn't have that much and x spam still seems to kill faster) Imo, the main upsides to invoker are that you have total character control and you can keep moving at all times. The moves most classes rely on cause them to stop when being used, and even the moves that let your character continue moving (except for windmill), cause you to lose control of your character and move in a set linear path. Perhaps the invoker's x spam kills slightly slower than RG when it comes to huge clumps/lines of mobs, but you also don't lose control of your character or have to wait for the animation to finish when killing. That makes invokers faster at killing small groups and mobs that are more spread out, which makes them able to kill a bit faster on most maps, imo.


Anyway, the best pvp class shouldn't be the second or first best pvp class, and this topic isn't really about pve...


Hmm, perhaps I'm wrong and FPS is playing a larger role than I first thought -- I have to say my FPS isn't exactly top-of-the-line (though it isn't horrible, either). I suppose it all comes down to the fact that, in order for invokers to be on even ground or to surpass dragoons in PvE, the player is required to have a very particular set of gears and good computer/connection specs, while dragoons are exceedingly powerful in PvE with minimal gear adjustment (it's really just the same gear they use for PvP) and without the same FPS requirements.

And yes, getting back on topic, it doesn't make sense to make one class superior to most (or all) of the others in both aspects, since it leaves players with little good reason to choose to be any other class.

I was thinking about this earlier: The two things that I think are the main issue with dragoons are barricade and the massive CD stacking, precisely because these two skills offer benefits that seem completely uncharacteristic of the class's role.

The fact that barricade can both heal and cure them is silly -- it should give a high defense boost and the ability to avoid being launched (at the cost of not being able to attack), but offer no other effects, so it becomes a move used strictly to maneuver and reposition or to endure an incoming combo while taking less damage, instead of an instant cure-all to escape every debuff imaginable and quickly recover considerable amounts of health. Barricade essentially gives dragoons access to two of the most powerful support skills in the game (Cure and Slow Heal, although only affecting the dragoon), which is completely unnecessary.

Also, since dragoons are supposedly envisioned as a defense-centric "tank" class, it makes little sense to give them the highest CD potential in the game. IMO, dragoons were always tough but never anywhere near as infuriating as they are now, because of the CD stacking. Personally, I can live with them having an infinite lock -- if the damage dealt during that lock is slow/reasonable -- as in some ways it's kind of a defensive tactic to lock someone as a dragoon, a way to temporarily prohibit them from participating in the fight (similar to using Lightning Magnet or Witch's Curse, but with a bit of damage included over time). But when the damage dealt during a dragoon lock is some of the highest damage seen in PvP, it becomes more than just a defensive tactic and moves dragoons away from their "intended role."

GG needs to decide which role dragoons are going to play, and be consistent. Either eliminate some of their defensive advantages and let them keep their offensive prowess, or do the opposite. When a class becomes "OP," it's usually b/c that class has started to exceed the boundaries of the role it was meant to play.
  • 0

#105 Louis17

Louis17

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 16 July 2011 - 07:03 PM

He had no legends and he had more advanced equips than artifact/special.


this means i'm blind.
  • 0

#106 Thuy

Thuy

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 657 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 16 July 2011 - 07:17 PM

GG needs to decide which role dragoons are going to play, and be consistent. Either eliminate some of their defensive advantages and let them keep their offensive prowess, or do the opposite. When a class becomes "OP," it's usually b/c that class has started to exceed the boundaries of the role it was meant to play.


Dragoon should have a horse in order to move without the horse they are immobilize. Their horse needs to be tamed and taken care of on a daily basis!
  • 0

#107 Rimmy

Rimmy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Dragon Saga Moderator
  • 2354 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 16 July 2011 - 08:53 PM

Dragoon should have a horse in order to move without the horse they are immobilize. Their horse needs to be tamed and taken care of on a daily basis!


Oh gawd, ChiChi and PamPam would reroll as dragoons and name their horses Pinkie Pie.
  • 0

#108 manifuelt

manifuelt

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 295 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 17 July 2011 - 01:38 AM

this means i'm blind.


yes
  • 0

#109 nillakun

nillakun

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 17 July 2011 - 02:44 PM

dont hate on dragoons. cut their atk power by like 25-30% and they will be fine
  • 0

#110 StormHaven

StormHaven

    (ノ°▽°)ノ︵┻━┻

  • VMod Retired
  • 5432 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Dekard

Posted 17 July 2011 - 03:01 PM

dont hate on dragoons. cut their atk power by like 25-30% and they will be fine


cut it back to what is was pre RoP or lower their block rate ability/ make a stat counter it (like Aim to Eva).

Edited by StormHaven, 17 July 2011 - 03:07 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users