31 replies to this topic

[Chipotle]

As many of you know summoning your very own MVP is quite easy these day with the Geffen permanent summoner. I Know most people love it, but I dont. Here are a few reasons.

• Item rewards dropped by the MVPs are really worth close to nothing these days. MVP drops used to be a primary source of income for some of us, but there is not point in hunting for it. Zeny is hard to come by these days and with 'rares' being as common as jellop..........
• MVP cards on the rise. Over the last month or so, I've noticed a sudden influx of mvp cards on the market. Not saying its a bad thing but too much of one thing is never a good idea.
• Does not encourage partying and people dont bother hunting the map spawn mvps since its easy to just summon them.
• This feature really makes me feel that iRO is loooking like a PServer day by day. What next neon colored sprites and wings for everyone?

I play on Valkyrie and this is just what I've felt on this server over the few months since I started playing again. This isnt a rant, just wanted to know if anyone else shared these tought.

Edited by Chipotle, 25 July 2011 - 11:00 AM.

[PhenixFire]

• This feature really makes me feel that iRO is loooking like a PServer day by day. What next neon colored sprites and wings for everyone?

I actually lol'd at that, not to take the seriousness away from your post or anything. But yeah, that will be the day I quit.

[SirDillhole]

Well I thought that it was for VIP only though, but I guess they changed their minds about from all the qq form non-VIPs...
I don't really look into MVP loots as a way of cash though, since nothing good has really dropped for me, but more of the fact that it feels rewarding when you get a drop that is 5% or less from an MVP...

[Ralis]

I just change what I summon by what's selling on the market... These days I'm only hunting stuff most people don't / can't kill. @@

[Kaitch]

Your mainly talking about low-tier mvp gears and many of those drops are "outdated" (better stuff available/2nd class stuff).
Good stuff still sells for a lot (Moonlight Dagger)
While crappy stuff sells for bits (Spectral Spear)

High-Tier MVP stuff is usually still worth a lot.

However, it's true many more mvp are dying due to the summoner... and Green Ales.

There's also other place that people wouldnt get that far without those +50% hp/sp candy. Like Endless Tower.

I go through 100 ales when I make a run in ET (till 55...). About 50 of those are only for Samourai Specter...

Without those I wouldn't get that far (and get so much worthless loots to sell).

[Scott]

It's not an issues. It's a band-aid solution to an MVP system which is monsterously outdated. Most MVP's should be available from Instance, and while the summoner isn't an Instance in the strictest sense, it gives everyone a chance to fight an MVP they want.

[Ralis]

Didn't Heim mention something about making more MVPs 'summonable' like Detard in the last livechat thing? Kill x monsters around the map to summon the MVP?

[Kiehl]

The MVP Summmoner is a feature that I love and one of the main reason that makes me and my wife play.
We work for a large part of the day, and haven't time to hunt regular MVP if we want sleep a bit. Then I dislike the competition, in particular from people using third party programs (and I'm not talking only about the MVP search, but support bots).

The MVP Arena on P.Servers is quite different from Summoner; I played on a P.Sever many years ago and you didn't have to hunt items or MVP loot to summon the monster, nor have cooldowns.

Regarding Detard spawn, we asked for this feature directly to Heimdallr, if it was possible to put it also for other MVPs so that the players had to work to get the monster. The answer was that they weren't sure if they could make it.

About the item requirement for the summoner, it was previously stated that when it will become a VIP only feature they will be changed to non MVP exclusive drops, together with a longer cooldown (around 1 day) and maybe the MVP stat/AI upgrade.

[Minchi]

I personally think the summoner is a good idea. From what i know the only mvps i really hunt is phreeroni and Orc Hero because i can solo and i wont stop till i get there cards. But usually when i go to there maps they are dead

SO......This gives everybody a chance to fight mvps

[Xellie]

What's the point of an "MVP" when it's not competed? .... To flood the market with cards I guess. Should change the names to MPP (Most Persistant Player)

I understand how frustrating it is for people having to compete against god item loaded players (been there done that, got the shirt, got bored of the shirt, got god item access, got bored of that, gave my god items away) - but anything you can abuse, those really loaded players can abuse 10x as much. Result? MVP card flood.

Takes the rarity away, which sucks. It's really cool to own a rare item, and something to aim for.

[Xellie]

.
What next neon colored sprites and wings for everyone?

You do realize they have wing sprites on kRO now, right?

[Scott]

If Heim did mean what he said about kill X monsters to summon Y MVP, I think that would be pretty spectacular, especially if it was on, say a 3 day cooldown, and allowed you to enter an instanced map to fight it.

[Hrothmund]

Theres a place for both in RO. So long as the decent MVP's at summoner have 'controlled' items like regular MVP only drops then it should be fine. Most of the MVPs are low tier, so its more of a teaser for people who might get interested in MVPs that are worth fighting over.

Theres also ET of course for players who want to fight high tier MVP's and the regular valk/morroc MVPs that the top woe guilds farm to fund woe.

I would prefer to see summoner changed from 10 hours to 20 hours though, so its a "once a day" thing. Heim did make a statement a long time ago (I think when ppl made the same complaints about BB's) that they wanted MVP cards to be a more common thing ingame, rather than a "2-3 per server, EVER" scenario.

[Dukeares]

i prefer the 10 hour limit...since i can go to summoner once a day or 2 almost with out any restriction...as i can sleep over those 10 hour and do something while another 10 hour pass...and plan when to mvp like 8am in the morning and 7 or 8pm again after

20 Hour actually mean 24 hour or more...if the timer end up during sleep time or works time which maybe 30 hour + b4 you can go mvp...

[Minchi]

I wonder how the flow of mvping would change if they gave a daily limit. Based on how much the mvp appears?

[Xellie]

Theres a place for both in RO. So long as the decent MVP's at summoner have 'controlled' items like regular MVP only drops then it should be fine. Most of the MVPs are low tier, so its more of a teaser for people who might get interested in MVPs that are worth fighting over.

Theres also ET of course for players who want to fight high tier MVP's and the regular valk/morroc MVPs that the top woe guilds farm to fund woe.

I would prefer to see summoner changed from 10 hours to 20 hours though, so its a "once a day" thing. Heim did make a statement a long time ago (I think when ppl made the same complaints about BB's) that they wanted MVP cards to be a more common thing ingame, rather than a "2-3 per server, EVER" scenario.

I heard the opposite about GTB cards

[Minchi]

I think mvp cards should be especially rare. I dont think that there should be 30 and 40 gtb cards a server:(

[Anko]

I think mvp cards should be especially rare. I dont think that there should be 30 and 40 gtb cards a server:(

Why? 30-40 gtb cards on ymir would be expected with 3 servers merged into one. GTB being one of the best mvp cards is sorely outdated, these days it is great for pvm/mvp - in woe it is good for dispell and manhole, still useful for player magic but seriously non-magic skills tend to be far higher dps.

When at least ymir is so flooded with god gear and mvp items, the practical way to balance things is to enable everyone the chance to obtain stuff. It also makes people log in everyday and pay.

I think summoner with cooldown and daily quests are a smart way to get people to log in regularly.

If there was only 2-3 gtb cards on a server and really only one way to obtain it that is unbalanced but if everyone can obtain one with persistance then imo that is more balanced.

I notice some of the most persistant summoners are not even members of the top guilds.

[Chipotle]

I can see how people use it to have fun with MVPs and in small parties. But perhaps there could be a nerf on the summoner MVP's drops/exp(LIKE NO CARD DROPS). I know atleast one person with 5+ monk/champ w.e on 1 acct made purely for summoner. So you can see how this could be farmed. ET is a weekly free mvp fest, it takes 3-5 to run the whole thing with 500-600 ales and a bunch of res tokens(50 ales for samurai specter? really?pneuma?). ET is fun and a great addition since its only once a week. another way to nerf it a bit would be once every 12 hrs per account instead of char? This way people will still have fun with their daily mvp fix but will reduce the VIP/HE abuse MVP go trough.

You do realize they have wing sprites on kRO now, right?

I did not know that >__>. That is kinda disturbing.


Edit: Please visit the valk market section to see how many mvp cards are being auctioned in the last couple of weeks alone. In the 3ish years ive been playing I didnt know the server had these many cards popping up.

Edited by Chipotle, 26 July 2011 - 09:08 AM.

[Anko]

I can see how people use it to have fun with MVPs and in small parties. But perhaps there could be a nerf on the summoner MVP's drops/exp(LIKE NO CARD DROPS). I know atleast one person with 5+ monk/champ w.e on 1 acct made purely for summoner. So you can see how this could be farmed. ET is a weekly free mvp fest, it takes 3-5 to run the whole thing with 500-600 ales and a bunch of res tokens(50 ales for samurai specter? really?pneuma?). ET is fun and a great addition since its only once a week. another way to nerf it a bit would be once every 12 hrs per account instead of char? This way people will still have fun with their daily mvp fix but will reduce the VIP/HE abuse MVP go trough.



I did not know that >__>. That is kinda disturbing.


Edit: Please visit the valk market section to see how many mvp cards are being auctioned in the last couple of weeks alone. In the 3ish years ive been playing I didnt know the server had these many cards popping up.

When card drop rate is 0.02 base rate are you seriously going to advocate a nerf and take away the card lol? These people deserve their cards imo. I'm too lazy to do crap but i don't think others should be denied their chance. I think you are just looking at the mvp cards appearing but not the amount of mvps these people have had to kill to get them.

There was way more mvp cards when there was the long summoner event with no cool down iirc.

[Beata]

I think the Summoner is fine as is. If ever, they can increase the CD to 24h. Majortity of the summoning materials are alright since you are ought to go and hunt the original MvP to summon in the first place.

Then again, think about how MvPs die under a matter of seconds. I think that what needs to be looked into rather than the Summoner aspects. Players complained and complained and Summoner was implemented to ease the stress most of the community had due to the heavy MvP camping and monopolizers.

About making the CD affect the account as a whole to prevent excessive abuse, I have asked that from Heim personally but he said it wasn't possible for a reason.

[Minchi]

Why? 30-40 gtb cards on ymir would be expected with 3 servers merged into one. GTB being one of the best mvp cards is sorely outdated, these days it is great for pvm/mvp - in woe it is good for dispell and manhole, still useful for player magic but seriously non-magic skills tend to be far higher dps.

When at least ymir is so flooded with god gear and mvp items, the practical way to balance things is to enable everyone the chance to obtain stuff. It also makes people log in everyday and pay.

I think summoner with cooldown and daily quests are a smart way to get people to log in regularly.

If there was only 2-3 gtb cards on a server and really only one way to obtain it that is unbalanced but if everyone can obtain one with persistance then imo that is more balanced.

I notice some of the most persistant summoners are not even members of the top guilds.

To me it seems private serverish if a whole bunch of people have a bunch of mvp cards. But then again i was used to never seeing mvp cards ever to now a person having maybe 2-3.

[Chipotle]

When card drop rate is 0.02 base rate are you seriously going to advocate a nerf and take away the card lol? These people deserve their cards imo. I'm too lazy to do crap but i don't think others should be denied their chance. I think you are just looking at the mvp cards appearing but not the amount of mvps these people have had to kill to get them.

There was way more mvp cards when there was the long summoner event with no cool down iirc.

Take mistress for example. Easy mvp to kill, high chance of getting an OCA. make 9 chars that can take it down, kill it 9 times a day with HE/VIP. You make sick money and a chance at the card.
I understand how mvp'in with competition can be a pain but isnt that the whole point of it?Where is the fun in pulling an mvp out when u choose to. I've been playing for a looong time now(*feels too old to be playing this game*), not to sound like an ol timer but we didnt have it this easy back in the day, people had to work for their mvp cards and stuff =]

Edit: 9 times X 2 a day.

Edited by Chipotle, 26 July 2011 - 09:57 AM.

[huad]

As many of you know summoning your very own MVP is quite easy these day with the Geffen permanent summoner. I Know most people love it, but I dont. Here are a few reasons.

• Item rewards dropped by the MVPs are really worth close to nothing these days. MVP drops used to be a primary source of income for some of us, but there is not point in hunting for it. Zeny is hard to come by these days and with 'rares' being as common as jellop..........
• MVP cards on the rise. Over the last month or so, I've noticed a sudden influx of mvp cards on the market. Not saying its a bad thing but too much of one thing is never a good idea.
• Does not encourage partying and people dont bother hunting the map spawn mvps since its easy to just summon them.
• This feature really makes me feel that iRO is loooking like a PServer day by day. What next neon colored sprites and wings for everyone?

I play on Valkyrie and this is just what I've felt on this server over the few months since I started playing again. This isnt a rant, just wanted to know if anyone else shared these tought.

1.) MVP'ing is still profitable, just the right ones. Most MVPs drop "worthless" items that don't sell for much. It's not the summoner's fault.
2.) MVP cards on the rise? Really?

So, cards drop at 0.02%. You have to be VIP so that's a 1.5x drop rate boost, which does or does not affect card rates. I'll assume it does for shiggles. HE Gum also said to not affect card rate, but I'll assume again for shiggles.

0.02*1.5*3 = 0.09% card drop rate (assuming that VIP and HE Gum do affect card drops)

You have to kill a MVP 1111 times for a card to drop. With a cool down of 10 hours, that's 463 days.

Ok, so maybe a single person has 3 chars that can MVP, it would take 154 days, assuming the person consistently MVPs every 10 hours.

Again, this is all under the assumption that HE Gum affects card drop rates, but I always read that it doesn't. The numbers are already horrendous.

I didn't even mention the reagents needed to summon the MVP's. The desirable MVP card droppers, such as Tao Gunka, Maya, and GTB, require RARE drops to summon. You really think somebody can get their hands on at least 1111 gem stones?

Sure, some MVPs are easy to summon, like Mistress. 4 rough winds. Big deal. Her card is trash anyway.

3.) The reason people don't hunt MVPs in the wild is because they're camped like hell. People using convex mirrors, 150's killing MVPs in a matter of seconds. That's why people don't even bother hunting Orc Hero, Moonlight Flower, etc.

4.) Yes, RO is becoming babyRO. Leveling is becoming too easy. Upgrading is becoming too easy. MVP summoner I think is fine just because of the 10 hours cool down and the reagents you need to summon them. They put a lot of thought I think about the reagents needed to summon them. Like for Tao Gunka, everybody wants his card. I think it was smart to make the reagents Gemstones instead of Stones which were so easily obtainable.

[Chipotle]

Please visit and go through a few pages, and this is what people are trying to sell(some might just be using it instead)
http://forums.warppo...ie-marketplace/

U can kill 1 mvp a max of 18times in a 1 day duration if ur motivated enough(9 chars, twice a day), with probably 1 gum lasting 2-3 days per char. Now taking into account the regular mvp summons and the other people hunting with the summoner with VIP/HE, dont u think the 0.02 is sorta NOT too low? I'm not just talking about 1 person getting cards, its the number of times 1 MVP dies a day that you need to take into account for a card to drop. (For some reason it reminds me of Star Trek Voyager when the holograms rebel and take about Holographic rights. MVPS have rights you know!).

As far as mvp drops go, take fortune sword for ex. Perfect dodge is soo awesome, yet it costs 1-1.5m on Valkyrie, might as well just leave it on the ground for a bot to pickup on the map. High Tier MVPs are the only things worth > 10M. As much as I enjoy competition on those mvps, I dont like 20 groups trying for 1 mvp every single fight.