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#1 Roman

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:21 PM

So I have been wondering about this for quite some time now.

Back pre-renewal there were nice bonuses for reaching specific stat amounts, more than just a gradual increase, and the cost for placing a stat point increased every 10 points by 1.

In renewal they axed the bonuses, and to get a stat point past 100, they raised the cost substantially. Every 5 points the cost is increased, but not just by 1, instead by 5 and then 4. Up to 28 points just to raise a stat once.


My question is why? If they removed the bonuses that could get really high, why did they amp the cost to get stats high?
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#2 Pril

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:26 PM

To make highly specialized builds costly, as they should be, while keeping decent stats fairly priced.
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#3 Roman

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:48 PM

I understand that aspect, but really? 4-5 points increase? I could see doubling it, up the cost by 2 every 10.
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#4 Renaldoo

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:05 PM

The benefit of 120 of a stat should demand that sacrifice. 120 Agi on a Royal Guard can reach 193 ASPD with a spear easily, with proper equipment. However, instead of doing that, I could keep 191 ASPD and get about 70 VIT in its stead. 70 Vit is pretty huge, especially when it comes to WoE-- really, anywhere. MVP, PVM, PVP, everywhere, that's 70% more HP and a significant status resistance. If I didn't have to make the choice between those, I could easily have both, which is a little excessive. 100 VIT to 120 VIT is a 10% difference in max HP, that's like having a two-slotted armor with one slot forced to a pecopeco card.

120 INT is a pretty big difference in mATK alone, but as Renouille once pointed out, there is a HUGE boost in SP Recovery at 120 INT.
120 STR = 40 + x/10 ATK (where X is your weapon's base ATK) difference from 100 STR.

the extra 20 of any stat is substantial. If it were lower cost (to the order that you're suggesting) I could easily have 120 STR, 120 AGI, 120 VIT while still having 60 Dex and 60 Int. It'd just be ridiculous.
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#5 Sera

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:37 PM

The benefit of 120 of a stat should demand that sacrifice. 120 Agi on a Royal Guard can reach 193 ASPD with a spear easily, with proper equipment. However, instead of doing that, I could keep 191 ASPD and get about 70 VIT in its stead. 70 Vit is pretty huge, especially when it comes to WoE-- really, anywhere. MVP, PVM, PVP, everywhere, that's 70% more HP and a significant status resistance. If I didn't have to make the choice between those, I could easily have both, which is a little excessive. 100 VIT to 120 VIT is a 10% difference in max HP, that's like having a two-slotted armor with one slot forced to a pecopeco card.

120 INT is a pretty big difference in mATK alone, but as Renouille once pointed out, there is a HUGE boost in SP Recovery at 120 INT.
120 STR = 40 + x/10 ATK (where X is your weapon's base ATK) difference from 100 STR.

the extra 20 of any stat is substantial. If it were lower cost (to the order that you're suggesting) I could easily have 120 STR, 120 AGI, 120 VIT while still having 60 Dex and 60 Int. It'd just be ridiculous.


1. Your stat distributions are retarded
2. Even if you could get 120 in a stat, it would not be OP, as base level is the most powerful difference between characters now

Edited by Sera, 26 July 2011 - 03:55 PM.

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#6 Renaldoo

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:55 PM

Did you read the thread? The OP suggested 100+ stats should cost less. Of course 120 is a bad idea, my whole post was pointing out that if those stat costs were lowered to the magnitude suggested, the sacrifice would be too little. 70 vit was not a suggested build for an RG, it was a statement of the current distribution of stat costs, that a player can get 70 vit in exchange for the 20 stats from 100-120, neither 120 nor 70 vit were a suggestion of what a Royal Guard should have. However, AGI RG's do exist, and they have a significant niche-function. Given also that Vanishing Point deals additional damage based on AGI, they're even effective within that niche. The significance of that statement is that currently, an AGI RG would not be feasibly able to get 120 AGI because they need at least *some* VIT to stay alive. As in, the 70 VIT would be a larger asset to them than the additional 20 Agility. Given OP's suggested stat distribution, they could easily have both-- even 120 AGI, 120 VIT, and 120 STR.

60 Dex isn't enough? Fine, sacrifice a few points somewhere and tailor it to your needs, my emphasis was that the stat distribution works as it does so that someone can't max out 3 stats and still have moderate values for the remaining stats. I was not suggesting a build for Royal Guards. I used the example of an AGI royal guard because they're a great example of sacrifice-- that if they want to survive, they'll have to sacrifice a little from their ASPD pool and VP damage. If the 100+ stats were not so stringent, they would not have to make that choice.


The pecopeco card was an example that the additional 20 VIT has the same effect as a peco card, without taking up a slot. 10% HP increase-- not that a player would use a peco card for any specific reason.

Edited by Renaldoo, 26 July 2011 - 03:57 PM.

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#7 Sera

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:56 PM

Reworded what I said to be more concise to what you posted.

They wanted to prevent cookie cutter builds imo, but ended up encouraging them instead.
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#8 Roman

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:03 PM

They wanted to prevent cookie cutter builds imo, but ended up encouraging them instead.


+1
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#9 Renaldoo

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:05 PM

It wasn't about anything being overpowered, it was about compromising what you want and what you need.

I have two Royal Guards. One has 650 DEF, 35K HP, 95 Perfect Dodge, can tank most MVP's, heal 2200, but can't kill anything.
One has 150 DEF, 16k HP, can't tank anything he can't flee, but can vanishing point most MVP's for 12K at 191 ASPD.

With current stat costs, I do not have a Royal Guard that can do both. If wanting to explore different effective possibilities that the game has to offer is retarded, then I'm afraid we have a difference in opinion.
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#10 Sera

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:11 PM

The game is meant to kill monsters or help people kill monsters, if you can't do either, you're doing it wrong. My mech does twice as much damage at the same speed as your second RG but with twice as much HP, so I'm not really sure why that is a desirable thing for you to want to strive for.

Edited by Sera, 26 July 2011 - 04:11 PM.

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#11 Renaldoo

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:18 PM

One is support, one is offense. I think either accomplishes one of those functions.

And my Royal Guard does not have high speed cart ram, I work around it. Your mechanic probably can't cast overbrand, hesperus lit or inspiration, and I'm sure you work around that too.
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#12 Sera

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:22 PM

I don't need to cast overbrand, H. Lit, or Inspiration...
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#13 Pril

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 05:40 PM

Did you read the thread? The OP suggested 100+ stats should cost less. Of course 120 is a bad idea, my whole post was pointing out that if those stat costs were lowered to the magnitude suggested, the sacrifice would be too little. 70 vit was not a suggested build for an RG, it was a statement of the current distribution of stat costs, that a player can get 70 vit in exchange for the 20 stats from 100-120, neither 120 nor 70 vit were a suggestion of what a Royal Guard should have. However, AGI RG's do exist, and they have a significant niche-function. Given also that Vanishing Point deals additional damage based on AGI, they're even effective within that niche. The significance of that statement is that currently, an AGI RG would not be feasibly able to get 120 AGI because they need at least *some* VIT to stay alive. As in, the 70 VIT would be a larger asset to them than the additional 20 Agility. Given OP's suggested stat distribution, they could easily have both-- even 120 AGI, 120 VIT, and 120 STR.

60 Dex isn't enough? Fine, sacrifice a few points somewhere and tailor it to your needs, my emphasis was that the stat distribution works as it does so that someone can't max out 3 stats and still have moderate values for the remaining stats. I was not suggesting a build for Royal Guards. I used the example of an AGI royal guard because they're a great example of sacrifice-- that if they want to survive, they'll have to sacrifice a little from their ASPD pool and VP damage. If the 100+ stats were not so stringent, they would not have to make that choice.


The pecopeco card was an example that the additional 20 VIT has the same effect as a peco card, without taking up a slot. 10% HP increase-- not that a player would use a peco card for any specific reason.

Sidenote, just wanted to point out that RG can reach 193 aspd on 1 agi on pvp gears.
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