309 replies to this topic

[Hastur]

We will be opening up this thread for people to voice their opinion regarding Thief .

If you have an issue with class balance, please post it here.

A skill which you feel could be better? please post it here.

A known bug or issue with the class? please post it here.


We want to make sure we have as much information as possible come our open beta launch, so for this we need your help and input. Lets try to keep all information regarding Thief in this thread and information regarding other classes also remain in their respective threads/sections.

When launch does finally arrive, many of these issues may already be resolved (due to updates we will be getting) however we would still like your feedback.

[Yurai]

The Assassin skill Shadow Walk randomly disables itself in PvP. In addition, the upcoming patch changes the cooldown of the burrow skill for both assassins and tricksters from 2 seconds to 20 seconds. This is an essential skill for thieves as it is the only way for them to survive in PvP situations. From what I understand, a limit on the active duration of the skill was placed in order to prevent people from hiding during the entirety of a PvP match, but it is unfair to those who use the skill as intended. I believe lowering the active duration to 5 seconds is more than sufficient for its purpose in PvP, and the cooldown should be lowered to 5 seconds as well, an increase from the original 2 seconds to prevent players from spamming the skill, while still enabling it to be practical for use.

Also, the skill "Fly" for ninjas is to be changed to either an 8 second or 10 second cooldown from its original according to the new jDragonica and tDragonica patch notes. Assuming we follow in these footsteps, please alert Barunson that this cooldown change completely destroys the play style of ninjas who do not wish to abuse infinite locks and want to participate in a PvP match that is actually fun to play. I think a more fair cooldown time would be 3-5 seconds to prevent spamming the skill and abusing it, while still giving room for us to use our pseudo-air combo.

Another point is that the ambush skill in the next patch is changed completely to easy mode due to its new AoE. I think ambush should have a smaller AoE for PvP purposes so that it doesn't completely eliminate the skill needed to PvP competitively as a ninja in a 1v1 match. In addition, the skill ambush was changed so that it could not be jump canceled; I would rather keep the skill ambush as it is prior to the paris patch than have the new easy mode ambush.

Yet another point to be brought up is the damage nerf of the skill perfect strike. In the paris patch, the damage of perfect strike got lowered from 800% to 550% + 1800. The paladin skill, crosscut, has a similar attack range, and has a boosted attack value of 510% + 800. In addition, the paladin skill hits 2 times, making the actual damage 1020% + 1600, and has only a 8 second cooldown, compared to the 60 second cooldown of perfect strike. Not to mention, the paris patch gave all warrior weapons a ~1.5x damage boost to accommodate for easier PvE experience. This completely destroys any balance there was in PvP, and makes it a lot worse.

[AppleEater]

The Assassin skill Shadow Walk randomly disables itself in PvP. In addition, the upcoming patch changes the cooldown of the burrow skill for both assassins and tricksters from 2 seconds to 20 seconds. This is an essential skill for thieves as it is the only way for them to survive in PvP situations. From what I understand, a limit on the active duration of the skill was placed in order to prevent people from hiding during the entirety of a PvP match, but it is unfair to those who use the skill as intended. I believe lowering the active duration to 5 seconds is more than sufficient for its purpose in PvP, and the cooldown should be lowered to 5 seconds as well, an increase from the original 2 seconds to prevent players from spamming the skill, while still enabling it to be practical for use.

Also, the skill "Fly" for ninjas is to be changed to either an 8 second or 10 second cooldown from its original according to the new jDragonica and tDragonica patch notes. Assuming we follow in these footsteps, please alert Barunson that this cooldown change completely destroys the play style of ninjas who do not wish to abuse infinite locks and want to participate in a PvP match that is actually fun to play. I think a more fair cooldown time would be 3-5 seconds to prevent spamming the skill and abusing it, while still giving room for us to use our pseudo-air combo.

Another point is that the ambush skill in the next patch is changed completely to easy mode due to its new AoE. I think ambush should have a smaller AoE for PvP purposes so that it doesn't completely eliminate the skill needed to PvP competitively as a ninja in a 1v1 match. In addition, the skill ambush was changed so that it could not be jump canceled; I would rather keep the skill ambush as it is prior to the paris patch than have the new easy mode ambush.

Yet another point to be brought up is the damage nerf of the skill perfect strike. In the paris patch, the damage of perfect strike got lowered from 800% to 550% + 1800. The paladin skill, crosscut, has a similar attack range, and has a boosted attack value of 510% + 800. In addition, the paladin skill hits 2 times, making the actual damage 1020% + 1600, and has only a 8 second cooldown, compared to the 60 second cooldown of perfect strike. Not to mention, the paris patch gave all warrior weapons a ~1.5x damage boost to accommodate for easier PvE experience. This completely destroys any balance there was in PvP, and makes it a lot worse.

agree agree and burrow is like the only skill for harlequins to even dodge attacks that launch them into the air (archers)

[Yurai]

By all means, I do believe some of the changes are necessary for PvE purposes. Somehow, a balance needs to made for PvE and PvP, and it is exceptionally difficult to create that balance, but it should be possible. The main problem is that classes that excel at PvE completely overshadow the other classes, making it seem more imbalanced.

[iKnowMyABCs]

Like I've stated in another thread, there's a bug that makes the opponent unhittable. I don't know if this bug is exclusive to ninja but it happens at least once a pvp match. It looks like it's connected to the bug where it doesn't show the proper hp as this bug only happens when I "kill" them twice (hp bar bug making them die and than happening twice). Maybe I'll frap a pvp battle and post it up here.


Annoying as hell especially when I have to lose or tie unnecessarily.

Edited by iKnowMyABCs, 24 August 2010 - 09:06 PM.

[Kimimaro]

The Assassin skill Shadow Walk randomly disables itself in PvP. In addition, the upcoming patch changes the cooldown of the burrow skill for both assassins and tricksters from 2 seconds to 20 seconds. This is an essential skill for thieves as it is the only way for them to survive in PvP situations. From what I understand, a limit on the active duration of the skill was placed in order to prevent people from hiding during the entirety of a PvP match, but it is unfair to those who use the skill as intended. I believe lowering the active duration to 5 seconds is more than sufficient for its purpose in PvP, and the cooldown should be lowered to 5 seconds as well, an increase from the original 2 seconds to prevent players from spamming the skill, while still enabling it to be practical for use.

Also, the skill "Fly" for ninjas is to be changed to either an 8 second or 10 second cooldown from its original according to the new jDragonica and tDragonica patch notes. Assuming we follow in these footsteps, please alert Barunson that this cooldown change completely destroys the play style of ninjas who do not wish to abuse infinite locks and want to participate in a PvP match that is actually fun to play. I think a more fair cooldown time would be 3-5 seconds to prevent spamming the skill and abusing it, while still giving room for us to use our pseudo-air combo.

Another point is that the ambush skill in the next patch is changed completely to easy mode due to its new AoE. I think ambush should have a smaller AoE for PvP purposes so that it doesn't completely eliminate the skill needed to PvP competitively as a ninja in a 1v1 match. In addition, the skill ambush was changed so that it could not be jump canceled; I would rather keep the skill ambush as it is prior to the paris patch than have the new easy mode ambush.

Yet another point to be brought up is the damage nerf of the skill perfect strike. In the paris patch, the damage of perfect strike got lowered from 800% to 550% + 1800. The paladin skill, crosscut, has a similar attack range, and has a boosted attack value of 510% + 800. In addition, the paladin skill hits 2 times, making the actual damage 1020% + 1600, and has only a 8 second cooldown, compared to the 60 second cooldown of perfect strike. Not to mention, the paris patch gave all warrior weapons a ~1.5x damage boost to accommodate for easier PvE experience. This completely destroys any balance there was in PvP, and makes it a lot worse.

+111111111111

But I can deal with the new ambush.

[JoeDizzle]

With a time limit on burrow you should be able to move underground so people can't camp till they pop up. Kinda nullifies the point of burrowing to me if there's a good chance of getting hit when you come out.

[Yurai]

With a time limit on burrow you should be able to move underground so people can't camp till they pop up. Kinda nullifies the point of burrowing to me if there's a good chance of getting hit when you come out.

Burrow's time limit should be no more than 1 second for 95% of situations. If you're in there for more than that, you're doing it wrong.

[Gangrian]

Well it has to be asked, what does a person expect when they hit burrow. If you stay in there for too long, of course the logical thing to do would be to camp. So I agree with Yurai in that respect.

[JoeDizzle]

People can spam attacks on your position for the 6 seconds too. Thats why i recommended to move underground. I don't really mind what they do with burrow because I don't play a thief.

And logic doesn't exist in video games.

[Gangrian]

People can spam attacks on your position for the 6 seconds too. Thats why i recommended to move underground. I don't really mind what they do with burrow because I don't play a thief.

And logic doesn't exist in video games.

Ok, well, if they are able to move, with the current system, sometimes I can't even seen where they burrowed because there is no "hole" where they dug. So this means if they are able to move they have a "mini SW" in which I can't hit them, and they can spring up with next to nothing in way of resistance.

[iKnowMyABCs]

People can spam attacks on your position for the 6 seconds too. Thats why i recommended to move underground. I don't really mind what they do with burrow because I don't play a thief.

And logic doesn't exist in video games.

You wouldn't understand the concept of the burrow unless you play a theif, so your points are invalid.

The usual concept of burrow is to dodge the incoming attacks so burrowing more than 1 second is pretty
much unnecessary.

They should have just set a time limit on burrow and make it so that if you do reach the limit, they would
increase the cd by 30 seconds.

[to0n]

People can spam attacks on your position for the 6 seconds too. Thats why i recommended to move underground. I don't really mind what they do with burrow because I don't play a thief.

And logic doesn't exist in video games.

Move while hidden, like... Shadow Walk?!!??!?!?!

[to0n]

I brought this up earlier, and it was forgotten. =_=

Oh oops, I thought I read the last page, guess not D:

[Cocopuff]

I've been playing dragonica for about 3 months, and I've always had theif as my primary class, however I have played with all the classes.
Ok, the thing I've noticed is theifs have a terrible normal attack. They don't crit much until higher levels, and their attack is slow and doesnt do very much damage. That would imply to me that they would use only skills. Now, I have played both trickster and assassin, and I have learned that the assassin seems to do much less damage than the trickster. I have heard that ninjas rock in pvp, but it seems that harlquins do just as well, so I find it kind of strange that ninjas are so nerfed in pve. My only explanation is that it follows what the class trainer said about how they rely on their normal attack, which sucks. So I think that ninja's skills need to be a little more powerfull, because the trickser's skills have much bigger aoes, they hit more and they hit 5 or 6 times, whereas the ninja has skills that only hit a few or one times and don't even hit as much, with a smaller aoe. overall, I think that assassin and ninja skills need to be more powerfull, due to the fact that they hit less, have a smaller aoe and have a smaller amount of hits than tricksters. In particular, I think that ambush should be made to hit more times or be more powerfull, because that skill does little damage and is almost as useless as the poison katar one.

Also, I think that overall, tricksters have the correct amount of power, where ninja's don't I also beleive that thiefs are harder to get to 20 than archers and warriors. I dont know about mages.

Edited by Cocopuff, 02 September 2010 - 07:53 AM.

[Gangrian]

I've been playing dragonica for about 3 months, and I've always had theif as my primary class, however I have played with all the classes.
Ok, the thing I've noticed is theifs have a terrible normal attack. They don't crit much until higher levels, and their attack is slow and doesnt do very much damage. That would imply to me that they would use only skills. Now, I have played both trickster and assassin, and I have learned that the assassin seems to do much less damage than the trickster. I have heard that ninjas rock in pvp, but it seems that harlquins do just as well, so I find it kind of strange that ninjas are so nerfed in pve. My only explanation is that it follows what the class trainer said about how they rely on their normal attack, which sucks. So I think that ninja's skills need to be a little more powerfull, because the trickser's skills have much bigger aoes, they hit more and they hit 5 or 6 times, whereas the ninja has skills that only hit a few or one times and don't even hit as much, with a smaller aoe. overall, I think that assassin and ninja skills need to be more powerfull, due to the fact that they hit less, have a smaller aoe and have a smaller amount of hits than tricksters. In particular, I think that ambush should be made to hit more times or be more powerfull, because that skill does little damage and is almost as useless as the poison katar one.

Also, I think that overall, tricksters have the correct amount of power, where ninja's don't I also beleive that thiefs are harder to get to 20 than archers and warriors. I dont know about mages.

Mages have it easy mode after their Meteor can launch to a sufficent height.

Warriors are easy as well.

Ninjas skills will be better after the patch when their Ambush gets a massive boost. =_=

Also bear in mind that Nins have moves that do massive amounts of damage to a singular target. Which exemplifies the whole "drop a person within seconds" feel of the nin class.

[iKnowMyABCs]

I've been playing dragonica for about 3 months, and I've always had theif as my primary class, however I have played with all the classes.
Ok, the thing I've noticed is theifs have a terrible normal attack. They don't crit much until higher levels, and their attack is slow and doesnt do very much damage. That would imply to me that they would use only skills. Now, I have played both trickster and assassin, and I have learned that the assassin seems to do much less damage than the trickster. I have heard that ninjas rock in pvp, but it seems that harlquins do just as well, so I find it kind of strange that ninjas are so nerfed in pve. My only explanation is that it follows what the class trainer said about how they rely on their normal attack, which sucks. So I think that ninja's skills need to be a little more powerfull, because the trickser's skills have much bigger aoes, they hit more and they hit 5 or 6 times, whereas the ninja has skills that only hit a few or one times and don't even hit as much, with a smaller aoe. overall, I think that assassin and ninja skills need to be more powerfull, due to the fact that they hit less, have a smaller aoe and have a smaller amount of hits than tricksters. In particular, I think that ambush should be made to hit more times or be more powerfull, because that skill does little damage and is almost as useless as the poison katar one.

Also, I think that overall, tricksters have the correct amount of power, where ninja's don't I also beleive that thiefs are harder to get to 20 than archers and warriors. I dont know about mages.

You're basing all your opinion with having sin that is >40 right? You should at least play or watch ninja to see how rape they are.

Yeah sins maybe hard to level but it compensates with awesome skills at higher level and very fun/good pvp later games.

Tricksters may have the edge in pvp during low levels but in higher levels of pvp, they're pretty much nothing compared to Ninjas.

Edit: I forgot to mention properlly played level 30 sin can beat 35 trickster easy.

Edited by iKnowMyABCs, 02 September 2010 - 05:25 PM.

[to0n]

You're basing all your opinion with having sin that is >40 right? You should at least play or watch ninja to see how rape they are.

Yeah sins maybe hard to level but it compensates with awesome skills at higher level and very fun/good pvp later games.

Tricksters may have the edge in pvp during low levels but in higher levels of pvp, they're pretty much nothing compared to Ninjas.

Edit: I forgot to mention properlly played level 30 sin can beat 35 trickster easy.

A porperlly (oops iphone) played level 30 trickster can beat a level 35 sin easy.
It works both ways.

Edited by to0n, 02 September 2010 - 07:56 PM.

[uchiharafa]

I also think that assassin's skills should get a boost! I played the gpotato version of dragonica and,believe me, it's much better to play with sins there.

[iKnowMyABCs]

I also think that assassin's skills should get a boost! I played the gpotato version of dragonica and,believe me, it's much better to play with sins there.

Oh god please no. Sin skills are good as it is. Now that ambush is buffed, a lot of mindless people who lack any gaming skills would ruin this class... QQBBQ

[Yurai]

Oh god please no. Sin skills are good as it is. Now that ambush is buffed, a lot of mindless people who lack any gaming skills, such as myself, would ruin this class... QQBBQ

I agree.

[mrchuna]

i think mages are super over powered . i tried archer same way. my friend has warrior same way. thieves are so under powered. i am sin and just read on this thread that tricksters whoop us and agree. espeically all thief normal attack(x) and (z) they suck. so i constantly use skills then i run out of mp cuz not enough mp. and we have much less hp then other classes make us equivalent plz. and oh yeah our skills arent as good as mage,archer,warrior, and trickster skills bump us up gravity and warp portal!

[Gangrian]

i think mages are super over powered . i tried archer same way. my friend has warrior same way. thieves are so under powered. i am sin and just read on this thread that tricksters whoop us and agree. espeically all thief normal attack(x) and (z) they suck. so i constantly use skills then i run out of mp cuz not enough mp. and we have much less hp then other classes make us equivalent plz. and oh yeah our skills arent as good as mage,archer,warrior, and trickster skills bump us up gravity and warp portal!

Is this a troll?

[iKnowMyABCs]

I suck.

I agree.

[mrchuna]

Is this a troll?

i don't think so whats a troll?