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The New IM Rule


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#51 Nolanvoid

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:37 PM

Like everyone is saying
Just make insurance scrolls and other popular consumable IM items tradable and everyone will be able to
accept the new rule.


Gold sellers will chargeback heavy amounts of Item Mall. We've gone this route before. Even one chargeback is much heavier than what most people tend to think it is. When you have to take in a large number of them, there are greater consequences than just paying fees.

Gifting to friends is not an issue. We are able to tell the difference between our normal users and a gold seller. In the current state, which has other factors that are not described here, this is currently being enforced.
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#52 StormHaven

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:42 PM

Gold sellers will chargeback heavy amounts of Item Mall. We've gone this route before. Even one chargeback is much heavier than what most people tend to think it is. When you have to take in a large number of them, there are greater consequences than just paying fees.

Gifting to friends is not an issue. We are able to tell the difference between our normal users and a gold seller. In the current state, which has other factors that are not described here, this is currently being enforced.


Thank you for reminding people what actually caused the change in the first place.
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#53 zabmaru

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:46 PM

Gold sellers will chargeback heavy amounts of Item Mall. We've gone this route before. Even one chargeback is much heavier than what most people tend to think it is. When you have to take in a large number of them, there are greater consequences than just paying fees.

Gifting to friends is not an issue. We are able to tell the difference between our normal users and a gold seller. In the current state, which has other factors that are not described here, this is currently being enforced.


How does this sound: Consumables are tradable, but after a certain evaluation by staff. Perhaps checking out whether the purchase was legit. Then after that, any items bought from said IM purchase would be "unlocked" and you could trade it.
This just sounds unrealistic typing it out, though. It'd take valuable man-hours to evaluate each purchase.

Maybe make trading consumables and such level locked? Say, 40 or 35.
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#54 eshman

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:48 PM

It's always about the Benjamins! Trust me, WP is gonna make $BUCKS$ no matter what, but I'm just so sick of seeing the bots in PotW and I report them then nothing really gets done because even if you ban one account they just go and make another character and start the spamming all over again!

I seriously think it would be WP's best move to implement the changes that IAH has though--it seems to work really well for them and yes I play all the other versions of Dragonica/Dragon Saga that are available in English as well...
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#55 StormHaven

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:06 PM

How does this sound: Consumables are tradable, but after a certain evaluation by staff. Perhaps checking out whether the purchase was legit. Then after that, any items bought from said IM purchase would be "unlocked" and you could trade it.
This just sounds unrealistic typing it out, though. It'd take valuable man-hours to evaluate each purchase.

Maybe make trading consumables and such level locked? Say, 40 or 35.


make it 60. what botter or scammer is gonna risk a 60+char?
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#56 Kazu731

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:15 PM

It's always about the Benjamins! Trust me, WP is gonna make $BUCKS$ no matter what, but I'm just so sick of seeing the bots in PotW and I report them then nothing really gets done because even if you ban one account they just go and make another character and start the spamming all over again!

I seriously think it would be WP's best move to implement the changes that IAH has though--it seems to work really well for them and yes I play all the other versions of Dragonica/Dragon Saga that are available in English as well...

Your concept of anything in the field of business is shallow and about as original as a piece of bread. You have no clue what you're saying and it has absolutely no relevance. Please do everyone a favor and don't speak anymore.

EDIT: Forgive the ad hominem. I'm going to clarify just why you have absolutely no credibility to your strawman statements:

-How does this benefit WP in any way money-wise? In fact most of the IM buyers are upset over it and mention of people already having quit means less business
-Bots have absolutely no place in this discussion. Is that also part of a great conspiracy for "the Benjamins?"
-IAH's system is flawed fully. Endbringer suggests it as a cushioned alternative to a dire situation at best. Their market is extremely broken where gold is practically gone and IM points are the only currency. I guarantee you would QQ about that more so than any slight change to the IM system in place in ours.
-It's cute that you think you're edgy for playing other servers.

Finally, the fact that you immediately jumped to a "WarpPortal wants money!" theory from your clear lack of intelligence makes it pretty obvious you're incapable of thinking about situations in any single way that has not been paved for you. It has no spine in this discussion and it is rude.

Edited by Kazu731, 05 August 2011 - 06:26 PM.

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#57 BloodWave

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:19 PM

Well so much for being my guilds supplier of IM :rofl:
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#58 Coolsam

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:23 PM

Well at least make an event where we get IM consumables without needed to purchase but require being active like the XO quiz from the THQ_ice days. But swap the reward to a few ins scrolls or randomizers. Also add some difficulty to questions like "Who is the npc who sells potions in Ellora?" Or "What is the level of this mission boss in F3?"
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#59 Meganekko

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:46 PM

Gifting to friends is not an issue. We are able to tell the difference between our normal users and a gold seller. In the current state, which has other factors that are not described here, this is currently being enforced.

SO WAIT. I can buy IM from my friend?
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#60 Kazu731

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:59 PM

SO WAIT. I can buy IM from my friend?

Gifting. As in, if I got Cambridge a hair dye or something. Not buying.
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#61 Rimmy

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:21 PM

I agree with Maronu and Prinzu. Rather than punish everyone, I think it makes much more sense to just place all of the responsibility on the players who get scammed. If they want to take that risk, let 'em -- just make sure it's clear that they will be getting no help from WP if they get scammed.

Personally, I don't much like the idea of using IAH's system, mostly for the reasons Prinzu described. Gold is almost worthless there except for paying things like enchant/soulcraft/repair costs, and it seems like such a system causes price inflation for most items. Furthermore, if such a system were implemented, WP would likely have to lower the cost of IM points, since the ability to sell in-game items to earn points would entice some players who would normally purchase points with real money to just sell stuff and save up -- in other words, the value of WP energy with regards to Dragon Saga would likely decrease, IMO.

Edited by Rimmy, 05 August 2011 - 10:22 PM.

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#62 Astronix

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:29 PM

I've been thinking, I used to play a game called Tibia, and when they had some issue, they didnt bann the player (cause we all know they can use lvl 1 players for it) what about banning the entire IP of IM scammers?, thats a suggestion, consumables can still be untradeable, but at least we will still can buy it from other players
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#63 Lawrrry

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:08 PM

lol. this is only going to lead to this:

Player #1: ill give you 5 insurance scrolls if you buy my armor powder that cost 150g.
Player #2: ok

did i just find a loophole in 2 seconds? unless you plan to keep track of the market also.

or they can do this

make new account. sell IM.Then buy your own junk for lots of gold.

Edited by Lawrrry, 05 August 2011 - 11:22 PM.

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#64 canajew

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:24 PM

I still don't understand why we don't go back to the gold only cash tradable market system we had in the start and simply put a several week hold/check period on first time credit card purchases, or even any sort of first time im purchases if it leads to issues where someone is buying ugc with phony credit cards.
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#65 Lawrrry

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:28 PM

I still don't understand why we don't go back to the gold only cash tradable market system we had in the start and simply put a several week hold/check period on first time credit card purchases, or even any sort of first time im purchases if it leads to issues where someone is buying ugc with phony credit cards.


its not about the credit card purchases. Its about the fact that people are scamming others in game.

Player1: selling IM. send gold first
Player2: ok

Player sends gold

Player2: I sent the gold

Player1 disappears

or

Player1: Selling IM
Player2:gift first
Player1: ok

Player1 gifts IM
Player2 logs off.
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#66 canajew

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:36 PM

its not about the credit card purchases. Its about the fact that people are scamming others in game.

Player1: selling IM. send gold first
Player2: ok

Player sends gold

Player2: I sent the gold

Player1 disappears

or

Player1: Selling IM
Player2:gift first
Player1: ok

Player1 gifts IM
Player2 logs off.

Yeah and this situation was created because they took away the selling of im items on market.
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#67 Himeyasha

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 02:31 AM

and this situation was taken away because people were charging back.

Ban players from using Megaphones to advertise B/S IM points and just put the responsibility of those who do buy IM on the people who were scammed.

RO players usually do either in game currency first or half half depending on the player.
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#68 Nhat

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 05:47 AM

just to throw it out there but would making ins tradable but can't be register in open market be good. Since when trading you really dont have to worry about scamming as much plus you wont have to worry about poeple who use fake or stolen credit card then sell a huge amount of ins at very cheap price on market.

Edited by Nhat, 06 August 2011 - 05:47 AM.

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#69 Astronix

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 06:16 AM

just to throw it out there but would making ins tradable but can't be register in open market be good. Since when trading you really dont have to worry about scamming as much plus you wont have to worry about poeple who use fake or stolen credit card then sell a huge amount of ins at very cheap price on market.


actually, a nice one
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#70 Kazu731

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 07:42 AM

I've been thinking, I used to play a game called Tibia, and when they had some issue, they didnt bann the player (cause we all know they can use lvl 1 players for it) what about banning the entire IP of IM scammers?, thats a suggestion, consumables can still be untradeable, but at least we will still can buy it from other players

When you have players who have been around since long since THQ was young, they've become just about the lifeblood of the community whether they're obnoxious or not. Eliminating those people's hard-earned characters is more than enough of a gigantic punishment.

lol. this is only going to lead to this:

Player #1: ill give you 5 insurance scrolls if you buy my armor powder that cost 150g.
Player #2: ok

did i just find a loophole in 2 seconds? unless you plan to keep track of the market also.

or they can do this

make new account. sell IM.Then buy your own junk for lots of gold.

You clearly don't understand the powers that the company has. They're not idiots, they see that if someone got IM and gifted it to someone else and now has a valuable item, then they will be caught. They've proven they have this ability many times and have as good an understanding on the value of items as us players.
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#71 MicoJive

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 08:27 AM

with how many im transactions go on in this game every day i really doubt they will look ever each one individually to check if you bought something from someone for higher then average price or just gifted to be nice.
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#72 Kazu731

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 08:42 AM

with how many im transactions go on in this game every day i really doubt they will look ever each one individually to check if you bought something from someone for higher then average price or just gifted to be nice.

More than likely they don't have a "one security guard with a thousand camera monitors" set up. Be realistic and understand that this is an online game to which they have access to many things. People will be caught if they do it.
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#73 StormHaven

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 08:52 AM

with how many im transactions go on in this game every day i really doubt they will look ever each one individually to check if you bought something from someone for higher then average price or just gifted to be nice.


yo they find people who even chat to IM scammers. they can easily find suspicious trades. such has one person acquiring a lot of gold for seemingly nothing over and over and over.
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#74 strikeerfw

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 09:01 AM

Well, imo we shouldnt get this because some players scam others, since they know the risk of doing that so its not a good idea punishing everyone for people who took this risk and got scammed.
As nhat said its a good idea, making iss and rr tradeable but not sold in market.
And the gold sellers, if someone buy it they deserve to be punished, again they know the risk and im not sure but i think its a ban reason? So the scammed ones for this reason shouldnt even complain.
I will guess more than 50% of the community cant buy IM with real money(credit card/paypal/stores?) so they buy it ingame.
So if you guys will lose too much money making it tradeable(again not sold in market) please think about other action, because this will make the community, i guess i can say quit the game.
But do anything except iah market thing...thats horrible.Gold now is useless as someone said its for repairs and enchants, IM is the only way to buy/sell there, limiting the ones who cant afford it for real money.

We should give this more time to see where its going, but i guess its not a good idea.
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#75 Fwiz

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 09:19 AM

its not about the credit card purchases. Its about the fact that people are scamming others in game.

Player1: selling IM. send gold first
Player2: ok

Player sends gold

Player2: I sent the gold

Player1 disappears

or

Player1: Selling IM
Player2:gift first
Player1: ok

Player1 gifts IM
Player2 logs off.

i do the first rule so i don't get scammed :tf: & im a trusted IM seller lawry knows me well

Edited by Fwiz, 06 August 2011 - 09:28 AM.

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