26 replies to this topic

[simshon]

there isnt much scout in the game and in this forum Especially so you can develop this topic if you want ,this may help me get answer and others to learn more about scouts
i would like to ask about two things:
pvp and uw.
about pvp:
atm i dont have enough money for uw gear(still earning) so im using dark raptor +4.5%(without chem in chest because im planning to get chiva soon)&raptor bs.(refine 9-10)
im using junon-d7 and thypoon-p7(necklace and erring) .
and my weapon is 15 hzf -d7

(im talking self buffs):
while pvping in tg or dod ive got
4.2ap.
130% atk speed.
3.2 def-def is probably my main problem because im killed very fast.
1.6 dodge.

i heard that some scouts go for max ap and just use skills. hows that? better then go for 120-130 % and less ap?
do i need get the dodge buff from the hawker skill tree?
and how many def& atk speed is good +- for scout for pvping?
from your experience which is better to pvp- chiva set or glori set?

for uw,
i saw some good scouts that take some time to kill them (and i see lot miss on them).
as i see everyone is very fast during the uw, how much speed i need to have while fighting? (should i fight with wings maybe?) - im getting 1450 + -.
how much dodge i need to evade from some attacks?
i have some acc stuff (like mask and ring with m7) to buff with my acc buff so i gain more acc while fighting, and if im in party i cant tell the cleric ,now attack buff,now acc,now crit etc,because that will take long time.
if ill use buff pots that Significant decrease from cleric buffs?
and same question for uw,which is better glori or chiva-maybe mixed?(or dont because the glori bonus is great).

more one little question, i see some hawkers items with sa7,that better then d7 or p7?

thanks very very much for your help and reading all that:)

Edited by simshon, 14 August 2011 - 05:48 PM.

[Takahirou]

i heard that some scouts go for max ap and just use skills. hows that? better then go for 120-130 % and less ap?
Full AP is decent, but skill spamming doesn't really have fast damage per second/minute.
do i need get the dodge buff from the hawker skill tree?
Yes it's one of the most important skills. You might even want to drop the Aspd buff if you want other skills.
and how many def& atk speed is good +- for scout for pvping?
Personally, my Scout has 4k+ def in PVPs and less than 100% Aspd.

from your experience which is better to pvp- chiva set or glori set?
Imo, Glorious

for uw,
i saw some good scouts that take some time to kill them (and i see lot miss on them).
Higher dodge, I, myself use 3.8k dodge.
as i see everyone is very fast during the uw, how much speed i need to have while fighting? (should i fight with wings maybe?) - im getting 1450 + -.
I think along the lines of 1.6k or up is good enough.
how much dodge i need to evade from some attacks?
Just try to aim for 3k and higher.
i have some acc stuff (like mask and ring with m7) to buff with my acc buff so i gain more acc while fighting, and if im in party i cant tell the cleric ,now attack buff,now acc,now crit etc,because that will take long time.
if ill use buff pots that Significant decrease from cleric buffs?
Yes, I use buff pots for everything except Mspd, Dodge, Aspd and only clerics/booster can give you Additional Dmg.
and same question for uw,which is better glori or chiva-maybe mixed?(or dont because the glori bonus is great).
I use Glorious for everything, but mixing gear isn't so bad, you only lose some aspd and the ap/def gain from Chiva could be useful.

more one little question, i see some hawkers items with sa7,that better then d7 or p7?
It's your own preference. Some use it so they can have 2 benefits rather than 1, but if you're only looking into separate stats, then don't use it.

thanks very very much for your help and reading all that:)

[yeoldknight]

I don't know much about the Scout class, But what i do know is that you have to balance it. You need higher dodge (and prolly accuracy.) You need to get some glor raptor gears too, it will balance your class out. That's about all the advice i can give you.

[RobbyKay]

I personally wouldn't mix up Glorious and Chivalrous sets as Glorious gives the 30% attack speed bonus, but each to his own. However, if you have a HZF I wouldn't recommend you on going attack speed oriented (Piercing Arch is way better for this). If I were you I'd either get a full Chivalrous raptor set or a full Glorious set and focus on getting the most important buffsets (Lava M7, Sea Jade 7, Lava D7 atleast). If you did full Chivalrous you might not have enough accuracy against some, but should this be the case you could just equip some of your Lava M7 while fighting. Around 1.5-1.6k battle movement speed is usually enough to get you out of most situations, but it really depends on your playing style.

Edited by RobbyKay, 14 August 2011 - 09:50 PM.

[simshon]

on which skills should i give up to get the dodge self buff?
about uw-my tactic is to stay behind the champs\knights ans if this lines break so i run lol ,because i cant stand a raider\champ.

-does my atk speed effect on the speed of spamming skills?
tyvm

Edited by simshon, 15 August 2011 - 07:12 AM.

[DestinyDeoxys]

on which skills should i give up to get the dodge self buff?
about uw-my tactic is to stay behind the champs\knights ans if this lines break so i run lol ,because i cant stand a raider\champ.

-does my atk speed effect on the speed of spamming skills?
tyvm

Attack speed does not affect your speed of spamming skills, if you prefer to run away from champs, I suggest you just get a precious (10) saggi set and fight in full speed, those (15) glorious will just cost a lot and you won't accomplish anything due to the lack of attack power and maneuverability. The dodge buff stolen from hawker skill tree to be honest it's not going to help you in a war, that buff only last 420 seconds, you have to switch to dual swords to buff all the time. So, that skill is only for PvP purpose.


Here is the skill sets if you really want to get that buff.

Common tab
-Don't learn velocity accordance
-Don't learn hawker accordance
-get everything else to max

Melee tab
-get all the required skills for mirror phantasm and mirror itself

Bow tab
-Don't learn mana profit
-Don't learn soul disciplin
-Learn Lv.1 backpack training
-get everything else to max

Scout tab
-Don't learn call hawk
-Don't learn mana flow
-Don't learn soul current
-Learn Lv.1 camouflage
-get everything else to max
-notice Aimed Triple Arrow is a bad skill which has slow animation and could freeze up your character very often as you spam, you could skip this and get Phoenix arrow directly without learning Aimed Triple Arrow

Unique tab
-none

Edited by DestinyDeoxys, 15 August 2011 - 08:21 AM.

[simshon]

tyvm,
"you said if you prefer to run from champs"
scout can win champ 1v1 with full buffs?

and more little thing- how much attack and atk speed the best scout in the game reach?
tyvm for help

[DestinyDeoxys]

tyvm,
"you said if you prefer to run from champs"
scout can win champ 1v1 with full buffs?

and more little thing- how much attack and atk speed the best scout in the game reach?
tyvm for help

No one can win champs 1 on 1 besides mage.

I don't know about the highest attack power, since I don't even have a chivalrous set. And highest attack speed probably about 17x% unbuff (since you have so many 9.0% attack speed gear from item mall), but no one use attack speed on scouts anymore, I guess chivalrous is the way to maximize your damage output.

Edited by DestinyDeoxys, 15 August 2011 - 09:05 AM.

[PigGoesQuack]

No one can win champs 1 on 1 besides mage.

I don't know about the highest attack power, since I don't even have a chivalrous set. And highest attack speed probably about 17x% unbuff (since you have so many 9.0% attack speed gear from item mall), but no one use attack speed on scouts anymore, I guess chivalrous is the way to maximize your damage output.

She wrongs when it comes to the point that scouts can't beat champs in 1v1's. Any class can beat any class in 1v1 in my opinion, it just comes down to how the class is played.

On my scout, I decided to go mainly aspeed and ap and the outcome is tremendous. If you only use the skills that are needed to deal decent dmg with the aspeed you will do fine, I have rather high aspeed on my scout and I rarely have a problem taking a class down unless it's a decently skilled player mainly ( champ) class, but if played smart they can't kill you eithar.

It just depends on the game play you use on your scout, normally dying on a scout is rare if you play the scout smart and getting kills is fast and easy, I don't suggest skill spamming, but I suggest using a special order to just rack dmg and use aspeed to deal on to it, personally, I think you get to choose when you want to die on a scout, since stealth is so fast as a CD escaping is never a problem, only time you will die is if you want too so you can rebuff or if you get epicly ganged~

Edited by PigGoesQuack, 15 August 2011 - 10:48 AM.

[PigGoesQuack]

Attack speed does not affect your speed of spamming skills, if you prefer to run away from champs, I suggest you just get a precious (10) saggi set and fight in full speed, those (15) glorious will just cost a lot and you won't accomplish anything due to the lack of attack power and maneuverability. The dodge buff stolen from hawker skill tree to be honest it's not going to help you in a war, that buff only last 420 seconds, you have to switch to dual swords to buff all the time. So, that skill is only for PvP purpose.

I don't agree, I fight in all glorious. Going full precious is just a waste, too much of everything is bad and mspeed isn't honestly that big of a problem when you have stealth to most of the time guarantee your escape, not saying you should't have high mspeed, but saying that precious is a waste. Personally, I prefer glorious. Acc/dodge/aspeed, it's a all in one package. And if your in trouble in a 1v1 with a champ or any class, you don't just run and hope for the best, you use your skills to heal you guarantee that escape. I normally just stun, entangled arrow, stealth, simple as that . The stun is 2 seconds so you most of the time get 2 skills in to escape.

The dodge buff all comes down to the player, it helps alot imo, but it is a pain having to rebuff every 7 minutes, if you have a cleric, go for it, but if not, just use a dodge buff and i'm sure you will be fine, but the 35% dodge will help you in war, if you have glorious. In which case I do have, and I rarely get hit full damage.

Edited by PigGoesQuack, 15 August 2011 - 10:57 AM.

[Soaked]

I don't agree, I fight in all glorious. Going full precious is just a waste, too much of everything is bad and mspeed isn't honestly that big of a problem when you have stealth to most of the time guarantee your escape, not saying you should't have high mspeed, but saying that precious is a waste. Personally, I prefer glorious. Acc/dodge/aspeed, it's a all in one package. And if your in trouble in a 1v1 with a champ or any class, you don't just run and hope for the best, you use your skills to heal you guarantee that escape. I normally just stun, entangled arrow, stealth, simple as that . The stun is 2 seconds so you most of the time get 2 skills in to escape.

The dodge buff all comes down to the player, it helps alot imo, but it is a pain having to rebuff every 7 minutes, if you have a cleric, go for it, but if not, just use a dodge buff and i'm sure you will be fine, but the 35% dodge will help you in war, if you have glorious. In which case I do have, and I rarely get hit full damage.

Agree, Personally i use chiv15+, Glor15+ and precious for what it is (no boots or hat cuz i have better ones) In combat mode i always go for glorious. Haven had to many problems with champs thou :l

[simshon]

I don't agree, I fight in all glorious. Going full precious is just a waste, too much of everything is bad and mspeed isn't honestly that big of a problem when you have stealth to most of the time guarantee your escape, not saying you should't have high mspeed, but saying that precious is a waste. Personally, I prefer glorious. Acc/dodge/aspeed, it's a all in one package. And if your in trouble in a 1v1 with a champ or any class, you don't just run and hope for the best, you use your skills to heal you guarantee that escape. I normally just stun, entangled arrow, stealth, simple as that . The stun is 2 seconds so you most of the time get 2 skills in to escape.

The dodge buff all comes down to the player, it helps alot imo, but it is a pain having to rebuff every 7 minutes, if you have a cleric, go for it, but if not, just use a dodge buff and i'm sure you will be fine, but the 35% dodge will help you in war, if you have glorious. In which case I do have, and I rarely get hit full damage.

from your two replys i dont understand if you advice to get the self dodge buff?
if i dont get it my other option is to use buff pots only? because i cant use buffsets with cleric buffs,its taking too long.

about the 1v1 in uw ,lets say even not champ,lets say gun artisan or a raider (which u miss sometimes),
i can get 4.2 ap and 150% atk speed ,what is the best ratio between ap\atk speed to use in uw?
if i use lot atk speed that will be waste to use any skill because i can hit twice or three in this time(i use only stun and poison).

[RobbyKay]

from your two replys i dont understand if you advice to get the self dodge buff?
if i dont get it my other option is to use buff pots only? because i cant use buffsets with cleric buffs,its taking too long.

about the 1v1 in uw ,lets say even not champ,lets say gun artisan or a raider (which u miss sometimes),
i can get 4.2 ap and 150% atk speed ,what is the best ratio between ap\atk speed to use in uw?
if i use lot atk speed that will be waste to use any skill because i can hit twice or three in this time(i use only stun and poison).

Don't get the dodge self buff. You would waste too many SP on it. You should either use buff pots or find a cleric nice enough to do your buffsets. Or make your own cleric
Using skills is definitely the tricky part if you're focusing on attack speed. As you said, you'll have to figure out how often and what skills you should use for maximum effect. Spamming poison and stun arrows shouldn't take too much time considering their benefits. I personally have around 170-180% battle attack speed, but you wont need that much necessarily (most scouts have under 100% battle attack speed anyways). With full attack power buffsets under this amount of attack speed along with crit/acc buffsets I'm quite happy with the amount of damage I deal. There are no real answers for these questions though, you should fiddle around with your build a bit and find what's best for your style

[DestinyDeoxys]

Since I think you are new to scout class, so just either use glorious or precious, but not chivalrous the def stat doesn't help you at all due to how defense vs defense rating curve rated. And the AP stat is more like for buffsets purpose, scout is a support class not an offensive class, so just get either glorious or precious to see if you like this class.

The dodge buff is really up to you again.

1) 35% dodge buff at 420 seconds (mirror phantasm)
2) 20% dodge buff + 50 solid number dodge at 1200 seconds (cleric buff)
3) 25% dodge buff at 600 seconds (buff potions)


Let me rephrase a bit, a scout cannot take down a champ alone and neither the champ can take a scout down. I'm just saying, there is no reason to maximize your damage output on a scout because it's a support class, you are better off maximize your survive rate than maximize your damage output at the cost of risking to die in a crowd, a scout is supposed to fight behind front lines and you don't have an AOE after all.

[PigGoesQuack]

If you do go decide to go aspeed, I suggest you get crit along with it than, because crit, I believe is what makes it worthwhile

[simshon]

Since I think you are new to scout class, so just either use glorious or precious, but not chivalrous the def stat doesn't help you at all due to how defense vs defense rating curve rated. And the AP stat is more like for buffsets purpose, scout is a support class not an offensive class, so just get either glorious or precious to see if you like this class.

The dodge buff is really up to you again.

1) 35% dodge buff at 420 seconds (mirror phantasm)
2) 20% dodge buff + 50 solid number dodge at 1200 seconds (cleric buff)
3) 25% dodge buff at 600 seconds (buff potions)


Let me rephrase a bit, a scout cannot take down a champ alone and neither the champ can take a scout down. I'm just saying, there is no reason to maximize your damage output on a scout because it's a support class, you are better off maximize your survive rate than maximize your damage output at the cost of risking to die in a crowd, a scout is supposed to fight behind front lines and you don't have an AOE after all.

10% of dodge can get to 240-250 which isnt too low.
and realy champ cant take a scout on 1v1?:S as i see champ can deal 1.5k=2k dmg to scouts and can get pretty fast.

If you do go decide to go aspeed, I suggest you get crit along with it than, because crit, I believe is what makes it worthwhile

ive just got back to play, i played at the days when the crit had mmajor effect on pvp so i still got my arua d7 and im using it

[Phish]

It's more so the fact that with food and pots a scouts damage output is too low to override the damage the champ can heal back. Many classes can't kill certain classes because of this. Self buff 1v1's are actually alot more balanced despite the fact that no one really ever does them.

[Graziano]

I think piggoesquack has said enough already.

- It isnt imposible to kill champs on scouts, its harder but sure aint imposible. just a matter how u play ur class.

- Imo its a waste of getting the dodge buff from hawker tree, unless ur planning to pvp alot in tg.

- With decent bufsets u can get a decent mspeed which can make u flee from gangs and certain battles if u wish with the use of cammouflage.

- Ur ap/aspeed is prety nice, dont know how its compared with ur accu but i had about the same with 3.7k accuracy.

- Use ur buffsets its very helpfull, and if u dont want to bother the cleric use buffpots, altho it takes some time, u will get a nice advantage over it. Most clerics are used to it anyways to do bufsets, dont be shy to ask for them.

- Get an epic bow if u dont have it yet, the small advantage over range between a hardened or epic makes a big difference in the end, specialy over ranged characters.

[RobbyKay]

If you do go decide to go aspeed, I suggest you get crit along with it than, because crit, I believe is what makes it worthwhile

Definitely. A crit buffset (even just Hebarn/Arua with Tanzanite 7) makes quite a big difference. Also worth mentioning that there's not much point in going ASPD with a HZF as the Piercing Arch will suit your purposes a lot better (longer range, more accuracy and extra ASPD!).

[simshon]

Definitely. A crit buffset (even just Hebarn/Arua with Tanzanite 7) makes quite a big difference. Also worth mentioning that there's not much point in going ASPD with a HZF as the Piercing Arch will suit your purposes a lot better (longer range, more accuracy and extra ASPD!).

but less ap then harden,
which gem should i put in? d7
and more question about uw.
if you stading 1v1 you can win everyclass?
if i need to run because outnumbered or something else i can get to 2100 speed but as i saw that not enough ,
and gun arti raped me:S so much atk speed ,you can stand 1v1 vs gun arti?

[RobbyKay]

but less ap then harden,
which gem should i put in? d7
and more question about uw.
if you stading 1v1 you can win everyclass?
if i need to run because outnumbered or something else i can get to 2100 speed but as i saw that not enough ,
and gun arti raped me:S so much atk speed ,you can stand 1v1 vs gun arti?

Less AP yes, but if your build is based on ASPD, Accuracy and Dodge the stats (and range) of the Piercing Arch will easily make up for the AP loss. D7 is alright, StarAgate might be a better option to be honest. I personally have a P7 in my bow but then again I don't have a P7 in my chest so it compensates a bit for the AP loss.

In UW, as a scout, it is imperative that you'll understand that your role will not be the "tank" or "killing machine" in the frontline, but as a supportive member behind the lines. It's possible to win 1v1 against every class, but you'll notice that especially against soldier-types it's a lot wiser to wear them down by hit and run tactics. I've personally never had problems with getting out of a battle with 1500ish movement speed, since you should be at a 30m range from the opponent to start with (and you have mspd debuff skills next to a stun). Ofcourse if you get outnumbered you'll die eventually, but it's the same for every class.

I'd say that with an attack speed build you'll be really effective against dealers, hawkers and muse types, since you'll have enough accuracy not to miss them and you'll keep on doing nasty critical hits at an extremely high speed. Soldiers are a bit tricky, but you should keep a long distance to them in the first place and try to get through their defense by using poison arrow a lot. Spear champs with high MSPD are definitely your number one enemy, and you wont be able to do much if they catch you (assuming that they have full +15 and so forth) to be honest. In a situation like this you should just try to run to your allies.

[Takahirou]

Just to add on;

Less AP yes, but if your build is based on ASPD, Accuracy and Dodge the stats (and range) of the Piercing Arch will easily make up for the AP loss. D7 is alright, StarAgate might be a better option to be honest. I personally have a P7 in my bow but then again I don't have a P7 in my chest so it compensates a bit for the AP loss.

Personally, Scouts already have high accuracy as is, so having a gem that doesn't add accuracy is totally fine. My PA right now is slotted with D7.

In UW, as a scout, it is imperative that you'll understand that your role will not be the "tank" or "killing machine" in the frontline, but as a supportive member behind the lines. It's possible to win 1v1 against every class, but you'll notice that especially against soldier-types it's a lot wiser to wear them down by hit and run tactics. I've personally never had problems with getting out of a battle with 1500ish movement speed, since you should be at a 30m range from the opponent to start with (and you have mspd debuff skills next to a stun). Ofcourse if you get outnumbered you'll die eventually, but it's the same for every class.

Also to add on, having Camo at level 1 allows for quick rebuffs and evasion of being targeted by enemy's, use it as much as you can.

I'd say that with an attack speed build you'll be really effective against dealers, hawkers and muse types, since you'll have enough accuracy not to miss them and you'll keep on doing nasty critical hits at an extremely high speed. Soldiers are a bit tricky, but you should keep a long distance to them in the first place and try to get through their defense by using poison arrow a lot. Spear champs with high MSPD are definitely your number one enemy, and you wont be able to do much if they catch you (assuming that they have full +15 and so forth) to be honest. In a situation like this you should just try to run to your allies.

Just in my personal experience, I find Sword Champs to be more of a threat than Spear champs, possibly due to the higher attack power. But yes, overall, Soldiers will be your highest threat, but when one comes my way, I'll try to take one down by myself using range, but at least half of the time I'll fall back and find some support or run.

[DestinyDeoxys]

A little heads up for you guys:

1) Without any HP recovery items/passive = 28HP per jump
2) With [450 HP recovery amount] (Lv.1 soul discipline and Lv.1 soul current) = 88HP per jump
3) With 2) plus a full reinforce set (50+50+50+57 HP recovery rate) = 123HP per jump


Additional test with my knight:

With [900 HP recovery amount] plus a full reinforce set (50+50+50+57 HP recovery rate) = 194HP per jump



Different total HP amount will have different results, they might have to do with % of your HP bar, but I'm just here to show you Soul discipline and Soul current are definitely doing its job, the jump that I mention is talking about a little bit less than 1 second, so you see with these passives, you are like eating 1 more snapper goulash at the same time.

[Takahirou]

A little heads up for you guys:

1) Without any HP recovery items/passive = 28HP per jump
2) With [450 HP recovery amount] (Lv.1 soul discipline and Lv.1 soul current) = 88HP per jump
3) With 2) plus a full reinforce set (50+50+50+57 HP recovery rate) = 123HP per jump


Additional test with my knight:

With [900 HP recovery amount] plus a full reinforce set (50+50+50+57 HP recovery rate) = 194HP per jump



Different total HP amount will have different results, they might have to do with % of your HP bar, but I'm just here to show you Soul discipline and Soul current are definitely doing its job, the jump that I mention is talking about a little bit less than 1 second, so you see with these passives, you are like eating 1 more snapper goulash at the same time.

Yep I can confirm this myself, because I didn't have even level 1 of those passives at first, so I was actually using mp food, but even having level 1 of it, I completely didn't have to rely on mp food anymore, still need hp though :3

[TankJr]

hp recovery on scout is bugged