113 replies to this topic

[maskinovel]

I'm back. I wish I had been here.

Sorry everyone that I wasn't around. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with the senate.

welcome back,,did u receive any notification or pm regarding senate ?

[LadyPsyber]

welcome back,,did u receive any notification or pm regarding senate ?

I received nothing. I was away on camping for 6 days so I missed the voting process but somehow I got a lot of votes but didn't make it to the senate?

Mmmmm must be a different set of criteria involved than the voting process.

Can't help but picture the Gravity reps wiping their brows that I wasn't "voted" in.

For the people who voted for me, thank you very much...I would not have wasted your faith in me to work for change.

[AlisiaMT]

It wasn't a vote. It was a nomination and lady got nominated xx-1 more times than she should have. so did pickup, phish, zurn, and everyone else that got nominated more than once. The final say was the developers. Why? because we all could have voted for chicken but would he really have been a good choice for us? Perfect example is the screwballs that decided to vote for canehda for the hell of it (even though they didn't really want him in office)

[XsybilX]

Hi

Best announcement of winning anything. Ever.

Congrats to all of you. As Coffee said about some of us earning ROSE Medicare, some trust would have to be re-earned that hasn't been earned yet (I have to say, I see a vast improvement since my time back) but with some effort and dedication I'm sure you can make the community proud.

There is my pep-talky post. I'll go back to being evil and taking over Junon now.

[Orion]

There is my pep-talky post. I'll go back to being evil and taking over Junon now.

Well i think bigger. I'm gonna take over the entire tri-map area.

[Aviv4]

So this topic became a formal 1 to announce the Senate?
Anyway, grats to 4 of you!
I hope one of you is from Draco...

[LadyPsyber]

It wasn't a vote. It was a nomination and lady got nominated xx-1 more times than she should have. so did pickup, phish, zurn, and everyone else that got nominated more than once. The final say was the developers. Why? because we all could have voted for chicken but would he really have been a good choice for us? Perfect example is the screwballs that decided to vote for canehda for the hell of it (even though they didn't really want him in office)

Aha I seee...lol so the company basically picked the people who are supposed to be their oversight committee? Why am I not surprised?

Conflict of interest anybody? The community is and always should be the ONLY voice in who represents us. Anything else is not acceptable.

The more I watch the "progression" of this game, the more I want to close my eyes and cry at how screwed up/corrupt the administration of it is.

[LordAlbion]

It wasn't a vote. It was a nomination and lady got nominated xx-1 more times than she should have. so did pickup, phish, zurn, and everyone else that got nominated more than once. The final say was the developers. Why? because we all could have voted for chicken but would he really have been a good choice for us? Perfect example is the screwballs that decided to vote for canehda for the hell of it (even though they didn't really want him in office)

Democracy anyone? I guess you prefer facism. So much for a comunity elected senate.

[Orion]

Democracy anyone? I guess you prefer facism. So much for a comunity elected senate.

to some extent it was community elected so, yeah

[LadyPsyber]

to some extent it was community elected so, yeah

The choices were nominated, not elected by the community. Anyone running 2 accounts could nominate themselves.

REAL Elections are where a group of people VOTE on choices that were picked by them. Their final choices are picked by who gets the most votes BY THE COMMUNITY.

As this game is run by a group of people who seem to keep stacking the deck against their customers, it does not surprise me in the least that they would make the senate "selection" close to nothing to do with the community wants.

You get a sense why someone like me will never be picked...I don't just sit there and take their BS without giving it back to them. They really don't like people like me who stick up for the players no matter how much it hurts what people think of me.

As they rarely take hard facts reporting into proper consideration, nothing I could provide for them would fit in their neat little world of ignorance. An example of your average input form with Gravity: Option a> sit there and take what we want you to take. Option b> please see option a.

This Senate "Selection" process was nothing other than a Kangaroo Court. I am not taking anything from the people who were selected for it but they weren't elected at all. Even if I am never "elected" I would NEVER agree to whatever abortion of a process this was.

I would want 1000 people to be elected in a proper sampling of what the community wants over myself being selected in some joke "election".

[Cordazar]

The First election will be handled via player nominations and the Community Team making the final judgment on who will serve on the second semester of 2011's Community Senate.

I am one of those nominated players and at the same time not one of those who recieved most "votes", on top of which I'm a noob to the ROSE-community with only 2 meager posts. Reading the thread about the Community Senate I can easily see how alot of people would be upset and feel that they got robbed of their community Election since dudes like me got a spot and LadyPsyber among others were passed over.


Well here we got ourselves a pretty nice opportunity to lift a question from the players to the Community Team, if we should have true elections for the Senate and if so how they should be handled. Since each and everyone one of use can create a plethora of accounts it will be hard to get a "true" vote on the forums. I reckon we can all agree on the fact that we should have people in the Senate that have the trust of the community in large, but at the same time we do need diversity to make sure the Senate is for the entire community and not just for those who shout loudest. Diversity in this case can mean experience from Rose, experience from online gaming in general, experience with community work, experience with technical development or experience from real life.
Lastly we shouldn't forget that this selection of the Senate will only run until the end of the year, slightly more then 4 months, until everyone gets a new chance to have their say. Let's give us a chance to prove that we can be of use and that the Senate as a concept is not a bad idea. But during the first run let's also have a healthy discussion on the nomination/selection/election or whatever it will become in the future and make sure that we are better prepared, that the process is transparent and that everyone understands how the Senate gets chosen.


Considering the diversity I mentioned earlier I can just guess that my fresh eyes on Rose and my technical experience from development is what earned me a spot this time. At the time of the nominations and the Community Teams choice only a few on these forums knew that I also have alot of years of community experience behind me from quite a few online games, hopefully that experience will make me more useful for the community here.


best regards,
Cordazar

[RagingHormones]

^^ think he's off to a good start.

[LadyPsyber]

Considering the diversity I mentioned earlier I can just guess that my fresh eyes on Rose and my technical experience from development is what earned me a spot this time. At the time of the nominations and the Community Teams choice only a few on these forums knew that I also have alot of years of community experience behind me from quite a few online games, hopefully that experience will make me more useful for the community here.

You know...I think it's wonderful that you're new to the community however for me who has been here from the bitter beginning, I see ANYTHING appointed by the developers of rose that is supposed to act as an oversight to them as an absolute conflict of interest. I do not know you, I do not know phish yet here you two are, REPRESENTING me in something I view as pretty important if Gravity goes against their established ways and actually listens/implements things we need. No bio from you, no emotional post from you telling us WHY you are a good choice to represent us, no choice for us, the paying users...all we're getting is just a "here you go, here's your senate now sit down and shut up like the loyal lemmings you are."

I think people need to understand that it's quite probable that nothing has changed here...all we've been given is something to placate us for a little longer. Do I trust Gravity? Well lets just say that once they prove themselves trustworthy, i'll trust them...and until that day happens i'll continue to have a healthy distrust for pretty much anything they provide to "help" us. I to this day have ZERO understanding where this game is supposed to be going and Gravity certainly hasn't supplied that to a point where I wonder if they even know. We're supposed to get to seven planets but the direction of getting there has slowed to a point where I wonder if we'll even make it past Orlo. Orlo has and continues to be a VERY disappointing/poor extension of the 3 previous planets and we're sitting here in some sort of rotting stasis waiting for Gravity to provide anything other than Item Mall junk.

For something supposedly so important, this little "election" was put together with very little understanding of the community to a point that I went on the first 6 day vacation I've taken in 5 years and the "vote" showed up, went on and was finished before I even got back. Let's remember that this senate is here because the community is howling for change/so many people have quit and here we are with a senate that was appointed to help make that change by the VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE THE REASON WE NEED THE DAMN CHANGES!@!@


Anyone else here want to vomit?

[lilsere]

It seems like what's making some people mad/confused is the imprecision of language used regarding the community senate. The topic description says that you're voting for a player representative, but if you read the first post it states that the community will only be nominating players and that the senate will be chosen from among those nominated. Instead of calling this merely a nomination (which is what this was), the word election (which kind of implies that the players with the most nominations get chosen) was used. Read the details of the first post. This wasn't an election. There was no voting.

You know...I think it's wonderful that you're new to the community however for me who has been here from the bitter beginning, I see ANYTHING appointed by the developers of rose that is supposed to act as an oversight to them as an absolute conflict of interest. I do not know you, I do not know phish yet here you two are, REPRESENTING me in something I view as pretty important if Gravity goes against their established ways and actually listens/implements things we need. No bio from you, no emotional post from you telling us WHY you are a good choice to represent us, no choice for us, the paying users...all we're getting is just a "here you go, here's your senate now sit down and shut up like the loyal lemmings you are."

I think people need to understand that it's quite probable that nothing has changed here...all we've been given is something to placate us for a little longer. Do I trust Gravity? Well lets just say that once they prove themselves trustworthy, i'll trust them...and until that day happens i'll continue to have a healthy distrust for pretty much anything they provide to "help" us. I to this day have ZERO understanding where this game is supposed to be going and Gravity certainly hasn't supplied that to a point where I wonder if they even know. We're supposed to get to seven planets but the direction of getting there has slowed to a point where I wonder if we'll even make it past Orlo. Orlo has and continues to be a VERY disappointing/poor extension of the 3 previous planets and we're sitting here in some sort of rotting stasis waiting for Gravity to provide anything other than Item Mall junk.

For something supposedly so important, this little "election" was put together with very little understanding of the community to a point that I went on the first 6 day vacation I've taken in 5 years and the "vote" showed up, went on and was finished before I even got back. Let's remember that this senate is here because the community is howling for change/so many people have quit and here we are with a senate that was appointed to help make that change by the VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE THE REASON WE NEED THE DAMN CHANGES!@!@


Anyone else here want to vomit?

As for the results, I'm happy with them. I've read previous posts of some of the senate members and I often agree with what they have to say. As for Cordazar being relatively new to the forums, I appreciate that someone new was chosen for senate. How well would the senate represent the whole community if only people who have been around a long time and/or have high post counts were chosen? Someone new to the community may have a different perspective. As for post count, I personally value quality of posts over quantity. After reading Cordazar's post in this thread, like RagingHormones said, I think he's off to a good start.

Having said that, I've also read posts made by you LadyPsyber and, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm a bit glad you're not in the Senate this time around. I can see how passionate you are in your posts, but sometimes your posts are so angry and/or tl;dr that the point you're trying to make gets lost. You said above that you would've wanted to see a post from senate nominees (or current senate members? *not sure*) "telling us WHY you are a good choice". To me, the post I quoted told me why you weren't a good choice for senate. You're openly distrusting of Gravity and "anything they provide to 'help' us" (i.e. the senate?) and view the senate as merely a means of placating the community. I think we need to place at least a little trust in Gravity and give the senate time to do something before we write the idea off completely. I think it's important that people with patience, calmer minds and civiler tongues be chosen, especially since this is the first time a senate has been formed.

In any case, the current senate will only be serving for 6 months before the next round of nominations. In that time, maybe the current senate will have figured out what to do to be an effective representation of the community, maybe we'll see positive changes in Rose, and maybe we'll have figured out a more satisfactory nomination/election process. Maybe nothing will change or we won't even have a senate. Who knows? Let's give it some time before we denounce it as a terrible idea.

Edited by lilsere, 18 August 2011 - 01:58 AM.

[Genesis]

I think that it's important for those who are crying foul to understand that the forum community represents only a small portion of the whole ROSE Online community, and that those who act as if they are the voice of the community can sometimes fall in the minority at times. The goal of the Community Senate is to gather the concerns of the whole ROSE community, and to do this we require more than just the active forum members to be involved in the process.

[KingsBane]

I agree that the forum in no way reptresents the game but to pretend you dont already understand the concerns players have is fatuous THREAD AFTER THREAD of complaints are ignored and I cant see why you feel u need a new input to understand that.

[Soaked]

You know...I think it's wonderful that you're new to the community however for me who has been here from the bitter beginning, I see ANYTHING appointed by the developers of rose that is supposed to act as an oversight to them as an absolute conflict of interest. I do not know you, I do not know phish yet here you two are, REPRESENTING me in something I view as pretty important if Gravity goes against their established ways and actually listens/implements things we need. No bio from you, no emotional post from you telling us WHY you are a good choice to represent us, no choice for us, the paying users...all we're getting is just a "here you go, here's your senate now sit down and shut up like the loyal lemmings you are."

I think people need to understand that it's quite probable that nothing has changed here...all we've been given is something to placate us for a little longer. Do I trust Gravity? Well lets just say that once they prove themselves trustworthy, i'll trust them...and until that day happens i'll continue to have a healthy distrust for pretty much anything they provide to "help" us. I to this day have ZERO understanding where this game is supposed to be going and Gravity certainly hasn't supplied that to a point where I wonder if they even know. We're supposed to get to seven planets but the direction of getting there has slowed to a point where I wonder if we'll even make it past Orlo. Orlo has and continues to be a VERY disappointing/poor extension of the 3 previous planets and we're sitting here in some sort of rotting stasis waiting for Gravity to provide anything other than Item Mall junk.

For something supposedly so important, this little "election" was put together with very little understanding of the community to a point that I went on the first 6 day vacation I've taken in 5 years and the "vote" showed up, went on and was finished before I even got back. Let's remember that this senate is here because the community is howling for change/so many people have quit and here we are with a senate that was appointed to help make that change by the VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE THE REASON WE NEED THE DAMN CHANGES!@!@


Anyone else here want to vomit?

This is axactly why you didnt get chosen by gravity.
I agree on almost all your posts but theres to much flaming towards gravity.
Lets just see how this works out and then start the flaming.

[Dusk1PS]

Well, after reading this thread and re-reading the locked nominations thread.

I see why AlisiaMT defends Cordazar so vigiliantly, she nominated him.

I don't judge the decision of the three members, IcePhish, PickUp, and DestinyDeoxys. They are all people with history, knowledge, and shown off very unbiased opinions(for the most part).

Cordazar is like the wild card. We don't know what he represents, stands for, or anything. He has not posted enough about his thoughts of the game for anyone in the forum community to really justify the Dev's decision about joinning. His only two posts, prior to his joinning the senate, just shows he has technical know-how. That alone should not qualify anyone for the position. It shows no history. It just shows he did computer programming at one point in time in his life.

I will give him a chance, but it is really fishy that he was voted in by Devs. In my eyes, this to me is similar to the Dev's giving that Aurum Castle Gear to a level 30.

Edit: For those who would argue and say "Who would've been a better candidate?" I say Oerba, and he plays both Leonis and Draconis, knowledgable and has history and is very unbias.

Edited by Dusk1PS, 18 August 2011 - 07:40 AM.

[yamz]

Well, after reading this thread and re-reading the locked nominations thread.

I see why AlisiaMT defends Cordazar so vigiliantly, she nominated him.

I don't judge the decision of the three members, IcePhish, PickUp, and DestinyDeoxys. They are all people with history, knowledge, and shown off very unbiased opinions(for the most part).

Cordazar is like the wild card. We don't know what he represents, stands for, or anything. He has not posted enough about his thoughts of the game for anyone in the forum community to really justify the Dev's decision about joinning. His only two posts, prior to his joinning the senate, just shows he has technical know-how. That alone should not qualify anyone for the position. It shows no history. It just shows he did computer programming at one point in time in his life.

I will give him a chance, but it is really fishy that he was voted in by Devs. In my eyes, this to me is similar to the Dev's giving that Aurum Castle Gear to a level 30.

Yeah, 2 post doesn't meant that you have technical ability. Weird!

[Artizt]

...

I think u misunderstand LadyPsyber.
I saw the point Lady posted was not about = "she would've wanted to see a post from senate nominees telling us WHY you are a good choice."
She don't even care if she would be nominated or chosen to be senate.
I saw her point as = distrust..and.."Well lets just say that once they prove themselves trustworthy, she'll trust them...and until that day happens she'll continue to have a healthy distrust for pretty much anything they provide to help us."
For someone like LadyPsyber who has been here from the bitter beginning: most loyal player, never take a break in long term, many of our proposal & suggestion.. i fully understand her.
Almost all of her post (if we delete 'verbal abuse,TLDR' things) was all for players and ROSE development.
She never try to misleading community, she never try to destroy ROSE..instead she 100% put herself in players shoes.. all she did was a constructive critizm to improve ROSE.. that's all.

Aside from that, I agree with all of ur main point.
Lastly, let's stop this debate..Respect both party..and trust our new 4 senate.

Grats to all senate.
peace.

[Orion]

Man i think you guys should all stop bickering and accept whats going on. Gratz too all the winners and i'll see ya in 6 months

[RagingHormones]

I don't judge the decision of the three members, IcePhish, PickUp, and DestinyDeoxys. They are all people with history, knowledge, and shown off very unbiased opinions(for the most part).

Cordazar is like the wild card. We don't know what he represents, stands for, or anything. He has not posted enough about his thoughts of the game for anyone in the forum community to really justify the Dev's decision about joinning. His only two posts, prior to his joinning the senate, just shows he has technical know-how. That alone should not qualify anyone for the position. It shows no history. It just shows he did computer programming at one point in time in his life.

History is kind of important however imo it's not the most important one. You can come up with the ideas based on the history and knowledge you've picked up through the years but how are you actually going to put them ingame? Looking at the amount of bugs that keep reoccurring in ROSE today technical skill is still pretty important in qualifying for this.

The combined history of the three other members more than makes up Cordazar's lack of history. If he wants to know something, then he'll just ask any one of them. Chances are people with history will get nominated in future Senates, so as long as there's one in the senate there shouldn't be a problem. And if he turns out bad, he'll have the other three override him and we'll just kick him out of Senate the next round. I don't know him but judging from his post he seems reasonably well spoken and can see both sides of an issue.

[Dusk1PS]

But the Senate doesn't work on the technical side of the game, that is the developer's job. They voice our concerns and feedback of the Community to the Devs.

Promise

The Community Teams desire is for the players to have a focused voice to the Dev Team and provide feedback on future changes, updates and help ensure that the voice of the community is heard.

For someone who has a grand total of 4 post counts, I don't see much of our opinions getting voiced. The other three have proven to be active on the forums for the community. Cordazar(not meaning to insult you) has not. He has shown he has technical knowledge, yes, but that does not mean much when he has the most quiet of the bunch.

For the technical side to bugs, Phish has already proven that he can decipher bugs, I remember his entire video compliation of a lot of annoying ROSE bugs that he re-created and the devs have used that as a guideline to slowly remove from the game since he made it.

If Cordazar needed to ask others about the game's history does that not mean he is not fit to do the job? Should not the Senate all ready have the knowledge and history so they may calmly and rationally explain the voice of reason to the GMs and Devs?

The "I don't know him" is exactly the point. I said it in my previous post, he is the wild card of the group. Why do we risk him being bad when the game is in such a depression? Why not elect people who are all ready well-known by the community who want to improve the game and let this guy come in later. That is what boggles me. Not even including Lady Psyber, there are plenty of people who want to help the game, who have rational thinking and history on their resume.

But as I said, I'll give him his shot. But it disturbs me that the GMs picked this candidate for an unknown reason when there were much better ones nominated.

Edited by Dusk1PS, 18 August 2011 - 10:31 AM.

[PickUp]

Just one strange thing I have just spotted:

When I was lurking the list of online users I saw this person: LINK. Now I am either colorblind or something, but he has blue name too!

[HellGuardian]

There isn't any point arguing now and see what they can do and voice our concern to the GM or the Dev.