Fire Guardian/Water Guardian Change Discussion - Page 5 - Dragon Saga Community Chat - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Fire Guardian/Water Guardian Change Discussion


  • Please log in to reply
267 replies to this topic

#101 Sapere

Sapere

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 25 August 2011 - 01:56 PM

This doesn't seem right to me. I mean it doesn't sound like fair business practice.

Imagine if you went into McDonalds and got a big mac. Say you decided to spice it up with ranch dressing or bbq sauce. You said, 'Can I have some bbq?' and the person behind the counter said, 'No, but i can sell you some.' So you sit down, BBQ your big mac and get ready to chow down. Then when you are ready to eat, the manager comes by, picks up your big mac, swipes all the BBQ off and says, 'Sorry you can't have bbq on there, it tastes too good."

If that happened in real life, what would you do? Flip out, at least ask for your money back. Well, imagine if you went and asked for your money back and the manager said, 'No, but you can have a straw and some napkins if you want."

This isn't fair and it is mainly unjust, because there was never a fair warning; Warpportal charged money, real money for people to 'work' on guardian sets. To me, if you sell something to a person, you can not take it back without refunding their money. I bet 1/6th of all IM sales in some way is involved with f/w guardian sets (can't prove it, but who would argue?).

So the situation is warpportal collected money that was used on items that they are destroying/ revoking. That's not right. But in truth that is the way this capitalistic country is now. Companies care only about money and they refuse to refund anything, J&J (johnson and johnson) is a good example of that. It's not fair, but they can do it and they will and we can't really say anything.

As far as "game balance" goes, you have to be joking. W/F sets don't help the imbalances, but a +15 weapon is always better than a +4. 8k defense is always better than 3k. you still need IM to get +15 enchants and stacked stats and high defense. If you don't use IM you will be imbalanced compared to the people that do. A guardian set won't make much of a difference.
  • 0

#102 Coolsam

Coolsam

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4997 posts
  • LocationHiding from my Subscribers
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:revreS

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:03 PM

This doesn't seem right to me. I mean it doesn't sound like fair business practice.

Imagine if you went into McDonalds and got a big mac. Say you decided to spice it up with ranch dressing or bbq sauce. You said, 'Can I have some bbq?' and the person behind the counter said, 'No, but i can sell you some.' So you sit down, BBQ your big mac and get ready to chow down. Then when you are ready to eat, the manager comes by, picks up your big mac, swipes all the BBQ off and says, 'Sorry you can't have bbq on there, it tastes too good."

If that happened in real life, what would you do? Flip out, at least ask for your money back. Well, imagine if you went and asked for your money back and the manager said, 'No, but you can have a straw and some napkins if you want."

This isn't fair and it is mainly unjust, because there was never a fair warning; Warpportal charged money, real money for people to 'work' on guardian sets. To me, if you sell something to a person, you can not take it back without refunding their money. I bet 1/6th of all IM sales in some way is involved with f/w guardian sets (can't prove it, but who would argue?).

So the situation is warpportal collected money that was used on items that they are destroying/ revoking. That's not right. But in truth that is the way this capitalistic country is now. Companies care only about money and they refuse to refund anything, J&J (johnson and johnson) is a good example of that. It's not fair, but they can do it and they will and we can't really say anything.

As far as "game balance" goes, you have to be joking. W/F sets don't help the imbalances, but a +15 weapon is always better than a +4. 8k defense is always better than 3k. you still need IM to get +15 enchants and stacked stats and high defense. If you don't use IM you will be imbalanced compared to the people that do. A guardian set won't make much of a difference.


Ok probably the most win example. But i'd knock the :P out of the manager.

Also you still have block rate and the magic/phys. Damage drop as the other OP stats.
  • -2

#103 Rimmy

Rimmy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Dragon Saga Moderator
  • 2354 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:05 PM

the wings give 1% of both and the set effect gives 5% on angel the 5% is magic drop and on devil it is PDD


My angel set wings say 5% PDD and 5% MDD, last I checked. Could someone confirm?
  • 0

#104 EnderW

EnderW

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 967 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:07 PM

hmm I am only going from memory on the 1% on wings I could swear it is 1%

Can't really check since the stat goes off the screen now.
  • 0

#105 AkatsukiKawa

AkatsukiKawa

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 271 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:09 PM

My angel set wings say 5% PDD and 5% MDD, last I checked. Could someone confirm?



hmm I am only going from memory on the 1% on wings I could swear it is 1%

Can't really check since the stat goes off the screen now.


Yup, angel wing gives 5% PDD and MDD. U can still see the stat if u soul craft/enhance it and then link it on ur chat window.
  • 0

#106 EnderW

EnderW

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 967 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:16 PM

hmm well it being 5% just makes my point better you can still get PDD close to what guardian has but those new IM sets aren't getting the stats taken off them why? I recall we were not meant to get the angel/devil/paris sets at all and the devs made warp take down the mix board that had them and yet the angel set is back now?
  • 0

#107 ayame3

ayame3

    I am New.

  • Members
  • 9 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:30 PM

This doesn't seem right to me. I mean it doesn't sound like fair business practice.

Imagine if you went into McDonalds and got a big mac. Say you decided to spice it up with ranch dressing or bbq sauce. You said, 'Can I have some bbq?' and the person behind the counter said, 'No, but i can sell you some.' So you sit down, BBQ your big mac and get ready to chow down. Then when you are ready to eat, the manager comes by, picks up your big mac, swipes all the BBQ off and says, 'Sorry you can't have bbq on there, it tastes too good."

If that happened in real life, what would you do? Flip out, at least ask for your money back. Well, imagine if you went and asked for your money back and the manager said, 'No, but you can have a straw and some napkins if you want."

This isn't fair and it is mainly unjust, because there was never a fair warning; Warpportal charged money, real money for people to 'work' on guardian sets. To me, if you sell something to a person, you can not take it back without refunding their money. I bet 1/6th of all IM sales in some way is involved with f/w guardian sets (can't prove it, but who would argue?).

So the situation is warpportal collected money that was used on items that they are destroying/ revoking. That's not right. But in truth that is the way this capitalistic country is now. Companies care only about money and they refuse to refund anything, J&J (johnson and johnson) is a good example of that. It's not fair, but they can do it and they will and we can't really say anything.

As far as "game balance" goes, you have to be joking. W/F sets don't help the imbalances, but a +15 weapon is always better than a +4. 8k defense is always better than 3k. you still need IM to get +15 enchants and stacked stats and high defense. If you don't use IM you will be imbalanced compared to the people that do. A guardian set won't make much of a difference.


  • 0

#108 Nhat

Nhat

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:30 PM

hmm well it being 5% just makes my point better you can still get PDD close to what guardian has but those new IM sets aren't getting the stats taken off them why? I recall we were not meant to get the angel/devil/paris sets at all and the devs made warp take down the mix board that had them and yet the angel set is back now?

I also think that if they nerfed guardain set then they should also removed the extra stat that new IM set pieces give. They should also increase the lvl of the new set to lvl 20 so people who wasted a lot of time and gold on the guardian set can still say they have one of the "best" im set availiable and also the only set that is tradable while the newer IM set will be at par with the guardian set other then the fact that guardian set are not soul bound. And if someone doesn't mind can they post of the set bonus of the fg/wg set when it was in thq. I'm very curious on wat type of stat i'll get from the set since I'm using 4 piece wg and 3 piece fg atm.

Edited by Nhat, 25 August 2011 - 02:31 PM.

  • 0

#109 ayame3

ayame3

    I am New.

  • Members
  • 9 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:31 PM

OMG I think best post made me laugh then cry :P
  • 0

#110 Rimmy

Rimmy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Dragon Saga Moderator
  • 2354 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:32 PM

hmm well it being 5% just makes my point better you can still get PDD close to what guardian has but those new IM sets aren't getting the stats taken off them why? I recall we were not meant to get the angel/devil/paris sets at all and the devs made warp take down the mix board that had them and yet the angel set is back now?


Again, proportionally speaking, saying 5% is close to 12% is like saying 50 is close to 120. We're talking about 12% on a scale of values that can only go as high as 100%, so from Guardian equips alone you could be over 1/10 of the way to being completely invulnerable to physical damage. Just because the numbers are relatively small doesn't mean it can't have a big impact on gameplay.

Also, I can't speak for WP or the developers regarding why other items were not nerfed, but I can say this -- at the player-GM meeting I attended, *ALL* PDD/MDD items were discussed as potentially damaging to game balance. We mentioned everything, including Guardian sets, angel/devil sets, Heirloom Bone Dragon Invoker sets, Heirloom Priest Chaotic Hera sets, PDD/MDD on shields and accessories, the Mana Shield skill... We literally broke it down piece by piece to show the GMs (and by association, the developers) how PDD could easily become a game-breaking element by approaching values near 100% (in fact, with the Option Expansion system in place, sorcerers could obtain over 100% PDD and invokers very close to or over 100% PDD). We did this because we did not want this to be abused.

Again, I can't speak for what choices were made -- as Hastur has already stated, Gravity Games said the Guardian set options were a bug and needed to be removed. Yes, the angel/devil sets were removed for a time, but I believe (not sure, but IIRC) that was because we got access to those sets earlier than intended.

Since the angel set is back here (and the angel/devil sets are both back in IAH), then their stats are likely not considered a bug, which is probably why they were not nerfed in the same way. That's my guess.
  • 0

#111 ANdyxDDD

ANdyxDDD

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:46 PM

first sorry if my english is 2 bad...
all i want 2 say is FG/WG sets ruined dragon saga at first, if this bonus would never came no discucion would be going on at the moment.
pvp sucked for normal ppl that hardly got 200 aim (good aim for THQ) FG/WG set made good aim be 350-400 and if u fight a 400 evade char still 350-400 is not much and 400 evade was also fault of FG/WG.
if u want balance giva all players FG and WG sets or take that bonus off(as ur doing) or just that make new IM set with the same insane stats (idk if u can) but anyway im really happy that u take that bonus off.
thanks for reading
  • 0

#112 EnderW

EnderW

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 967 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:49 PM

It seems to me the only reason the stats on guardian are being removed is because "its bug" and not because of any balance issue at all then or the other items would have been nerfed also

which means any talk about them not making this change will fall on deaf ears

So rather than talk about the actual changes I think it's time that we all just talk about the compensation:

a soul box (which has been given out like candy over the past month) and 1 w-coin is honestly not even close to what the guardian items have cost some people

and I don't like the other idea that has been kicked around of mail trading them for angel/devil because when a lot of us had old items from THQ that couldn't be used/extended anymore warp held an event to mail trade them for w-coins at the time I felt the number of coins given was not really making up what the items I had were worth (two full halloween outfits) but since we were told we wouldnt be able to use them I mailed them in

at the start of this month warpportal had an event to extend all old items that couldnt be extended/used (like my halloween outfits) now to get those outfits again I will have to wait for halloween this year, hope they put them up on the wheel and then actually try to win them

I don't feel like getting screwed like that again.
  • 0

#113 Astronix

Astronix

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 875 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:52 PM

first sorry if my english is 2 bad...
all i want 2 say is FG/WG sets ruined dragon saga at first, if this bonus would never came no discucion would be going on at the moment.
pvp sucked for normal ppl that hardly got 200 aim (good aim for THQ) FG/WG set made good aim be 350-400 and if u fight a 400 evade char still 350-400 is not much and 400 evade was also fault of FG/WG.
if u want balance giva all players FG and WG sets or take that bonus off(as ur doing) or just that make new IM set with the same insane stats (idk if u can) but anyway im really happy that u take that bonus off.
thanks for reading


I just hate when people overrate the things, the set NEVER gave you 100 aim or 100 evade thats impossible! it gives you a great ammount yes, but not even more than 50, thats ridiculous... Players who wants this change are those who never bothered buying a piece, who DIDNT TAKE THE EFFORT OF FARMING A LOT! to get enough money to buy those overpriced items.... thats why I want a compensation for all I wasted, I want my hard work to be something
  • 0

#114 Maronu

Maronu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2358 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:54 PM

I just hate when people overrate the things, the set NEVER gave you 100 aim or 100 evade thats impossible! it gives you a great ammount yes, but not even more than 50, thats ridiculous... Players who wants this change are those who never bothered buying a piece, who DIDNT TAKE THE EFFORT OF FARMING A LOT! to get enough money to buy those overpriced items.... thats why I want a compensation for all I wasted, I want my hard work to be something


I actually did get about 100 evade exactly, but that's on a capped sin with agi on every equip and mixed guardian.

Edited by Maronu, 25 August 2011 - 02:55 PM.

  • 0

#115 StormHaven

StormHaven

    (ノ°▽°)ノ︵┻━┻

  • VMod Retired
  • 5432 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Dekard

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:56 PM

People paid $20 for a set in THQ so i don't see what the problem. They have what they bought and for the people who bought it with gold in WP well check items that are to good to be true before getting them.
  • 0

#116 Nhat

Nhat

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:58 PM

first sorry if my english is 2 bad...
all i want 2 say is FG/WG sets ruined dragon saga at first, if this bonus would never came no discucion would be going on at the moment.
pvp sucked for normal ppl that hardly got 200 aim (good aim for THQ) FG/WG set made good aim be 350-400 and if u fight a 400 evade char still 350-400 is not much and 400 evade was also fault of FG/WG.
if u want balance giva all players FG and WG sets or take that bonus off(as ur doing) or just that make new IM set with the same insane stats (idk if u can) but anyway im really happy that u take that bonus off.
thanks for reading

uhmmm idk how much agi these people you mention have but i dont think fg/wg would boost your aim from 200 to 350-400. Yes there are a huge change in what is considered to be good aim in thq and what is considered to be good aim now but fg/wg does not play a big part in that change. Items that caused this change are bd helm that gives 55agi, 50agi/ 3%aim glove, 40agi boots, 27agi/5%aim belt/ 13% aim earings are some of the items that caused this huge change.

Edited by Nhat, 25 August 2011 - 02:58 PM.

  • 0

#117 AkatsukiKawa

AkatsukiKawa

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 271 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:58 PM

first sorry if my english is 2 bad...
all i want 2 say is FG/WG sets ruined dragon saga at first, if this bonus would never came no discucion would be going on at the moment.
pvp sucked for normal ppl that hardly got 200 aim (good aim for THQ) FG/WG set made good aim be 350-400 and if u fight a 400 evade char still 350-400 is not much and 400 evade was also fault of FG/WG.
if u want balance giva all players FG and WG sets or take that bonus off(as ur doing) or just that make new IM set with the same insane stats (idk if u can) but anyway im really happy that u take that bonus off.
thanks for reading


You are correct that taking FG/WG bonus off will give more balance environment, and it is a good thing to the game overall. But while taking the bonus off, you should also consider players who has worked very hard, spent their time/gold/IM/money to get and upgrade that equipment. Their hard work/money are compensated by something "uneven compensation". They would not be furious like this if guardian are compensated evenly.

Now, should just talk about the "even compensation" for guardian set. There are already thread about this topic at Game Balance Section. Hope that thread will be read and WP will reconsider the compensation.


NB: BTW, my gset only gives me 26 more aim and 10 more evade. And DONT ASSUME people got that crazy stat just because they have guardian set, but consider too their other "godlike" equipment, and also HARD WORK/gold/money they had spent.

Edited by AkatsukiKawa, 25 August 2011 - 03:08 PM.

  • 0

#118 EnderW

EnderW

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 967 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:59 PM

I actually did get about 100 evade exactly, but that's on a capped sin with agi on every equip and mixed guardian.


I'm a savage that has been working on agi/aim/evade stacking I use a mixed guardian set up and checked mine I got about 79 evade from it so I guess if you upgade all your other gear it does make it better but that is because the evade on the FG back and WG glove is base (and one of the only sources of base evade)
  • 0

#119 Ethernal

Ethernal

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1016 posts
  • LocationMX :)
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:the only one lol

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:01 PM

People paid $20 for a set in THQ so i don't see what the problem. They have what they bought and for the people who bought it with gold in WP well check items that are to good to be true before getting them.

completely true, you spent $20 bucks in a non-stat costume set, BUT keep in mind the effort they put in em after they got so OP
  • 0

#120 StormHaven

StormHaven

    (ノ°▽°)ノ︵┻━┻

  • VMod Retired
  • 5432 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Dekard

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:02 PM

just sayin my FG/WG mix only gave me 30eva
  • 0

#121 EnderW

EnderW

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 967 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:05 PM

just sayin my FG/WG mix only gave me 30eva


How much of your other equipment has evade on it?

I'll do a check on my setup without my other gear on and post what i get.
  • 0

#122 Faithx

Faithx

    Guide Guru

  • Members
  • 1041 posts
  • LocationNYC
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:06 PM

OH BOY WHAT A COMPENSATION! 2 STACKS OF SOUL AND 1 W-COIN!
  • 1

#123 Nhat

Nhat

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:07 PM

People paid $20 for a set in THQ so i don't see what the problem. They have what they bought and for the people who bought it with gold in WP well check items that are to good to be true before getting them.

how were we suppose to check them if we did not recieved any warning about this nerfed??
  • 1

#124 Ethernal

Ethernal

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1016 posts
  • LocationMX :)
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:the only one lol

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:07 PM

just sayin my FG/WG mix only gave me 30eva

wg/fg does not gives a massive quantity of eva, like that guy wrote LOL, the only problem here is the compensation, WE (i assume) ALREADY ACCEPT the nerf right? theres really nothin we can do, cuz they're right in one thing: wg/fg gives pretty much advantange at low lvls, i agree with anwar, angel/devil for fg/wg but with a soul box too lawl

Edited by Ethernal, 25 August 2011 - 03:08 PM.

  • 0

#125 StormHaven

StormHaven

    (ノ°▽°)ノ︵┻━┻

  • VMod Retired
  • 5432 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Dekard

Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:10 PM

how were we suppose to check them if we did not recieved any warning about this nerfed??


it's called ask the GMs.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users